Revel F328Be Speaker Review

[Descartes]

I have now listened to the Revel Salon2’s and Revel F328Be’s side by side in the same room, thanks to the flagship Harman Store in NYC. I listened and compared somewhat blind, in that I had a remote which could switch them but didn’t know which I was listening to. However I say “somewhat” blind because it was not long before I could easily distinguish which I was listening to audibly. My wife also helped out and was able to provide an even less biased perspective in that sense, since she couldn't identify which was which but the opinions and preference did end up matching my own most of the time.

Conclusion: I found that the F328Be’s are overall noticeably better than the Salon2’s (while there are some pros and cons to each).

Of course, the details are more complex and there are some things the Salon2’s do better, or at least different. But a few things stand out to my ears:

• The F328Be seemed even cleaner and more “dynamic” at very loud levels than my Salon2’s and Genelec 8351B’s. In fact, the degree to which they effortlessly go loud across their entire frequency range is really impressive.
• The F328Be treble is smoother and more neutral sounding to me than the Salon2’s, very similar in quality to the Genelec 8351B. I think I’ve commented before that while the Salon2 treble is extremely good, it sounds a bit more peaky to me than my Genelec 8351B’s which until now is the most perfect treble I’ve heard. I’d say the F328Be is similar to the Genelec 8351B treble quality.
• They sound more focused than the Salon2’s with a bit less “surround” sound reflections, but still with a very pleasant amount. So it’s not quite as focused as e.g. my Genelec 8351B’s, but not as wide as the Salon2’s, and so I actually find the F328’s tuning in this respect to be extremely good and perhaps my favorite I have ever heard — even more versatile than either the Genelecs or Salon2’s to the wide range of music I listen to.
• The Salon2’s have more bass extension as expected, but though noticeable, it doesn’t sound like a massive difference. What the F328Be lacks in extension, I think it makes up for in quality -- seamlessly integrated, clean, undistorted, impressive dynamics are how I can best describe the F328Be bass. In terms of extension depth and power, the F328Be’s have more than enough bass such that it would be perfect full range for most music, and perfect when combined with a subwoofer to complement them for movies or extremely bass heavy music.

So I will most likely buy a pair of F328Be's at some point

P.S. Anyone want to buy a used pair of Salon2's in great condition? Just kidding but maybe not kidding

P.P.S. Oh and just as Amir's subjective impressions have suggested, there is no way I can imagine these speakers actually start rolling off bass at 100hz as the Klippel measurements seem to imply. Unless it's some trick of psychology, their bass sounds extremely deep and powerful. Not quite as impressively deep as the Salon2's, but "close enough" that I'd probably still be happy running them without a subwoofer. But unlike the Salon2's, I think they're tuned really nicely in that you won't feel like you're wasting the potential of the F328Be's if you do use a subwoofer.

Thank you, how far were you sitting from the speakers?

 

[amper42]

I have now listened to the Revel Salon2’s and Revel F328Be’s side by side in the same room, thanks to the flagship Harman Store in NYC. I listened and compared somewhat blind, in that I had a remote which could switch them but didn’t know which I was listening to. However I say “somewhat” blind because it was not long before I could easily distinguish which I was listening to audibly. My wife also helped out and was able to provide an even less biased perspective in that sense, since she couldn't identify which was which but the opinions and preference did end up matching my own most of the time.

Conclusion: I found that the F328Be’s are overall noticeably better than the Salon2’s (while there are some pros and cons to each).

Of course, the details are more complex and there are some things the Salon2’s do better, or at least different. But a few things stand out to my ears:

• The F328Be seemed even cleaner and more “dynamic” at very loud levels than my Salon2’s and Genelec 8351B’s. In fact, the degree to which they effortlessly go loud across their entire frequency range is really impressive.
• The F328Be treble is smoother and more neutral sounding to me than the Salon2’s, very similar in quality to the Genelec 8351B. I think I’ve commented before that while the Salon2 treble is extremely good, it sounds a bit more peaky to me than my Genelec 8351B’s which until now is the most perfect treble I’ve heard. I’d say the F328Be is similar to the Genelec 8351B treble quality.
• They sound more focused than the Salon2’s with a bit less “surround” sound reflections, but still with a very pleasant amount. So it’s not quite as focused as e.g. my Genelec 8351B’s, but not as wide as the Salon2’s, and so I actually find the F328’s tuning in this respect to be extremely good and perhaps my favorite I have ever heard — even more versatile than either the Genelecs or Salon2’s to the wide range of music I listen to.
• The Salon2’s have more bass extension as expected, but though noticeable, it doesn’t sound like a massive difference. What the F328Be lacks in extension, I think it makes up for in quality -- seamlessly integrated, clean, undistorted, impressive dynamics are how I can best describe the F328Be bass. In terms of extension depth and power, the F328Be’s have more than enough bass such that it would be perfect full range for most music, and perfect when combined with a subwoofer to complement them for movies or extremely bass heavy music.

So I will most likely buy a pair of F328Be's at some point

P.S. Anyone want to buy a used pair of Salon2's in great condition? Just kidding but maybe not kidding

P.P.S. Oh and just as Amir's subjective impressions have suggested, there is no way I can imagine these speakers actually start rolling off bass at 100hz as the Klippel measurements seem to imply. Unless it's some trick of psychology, their bass sounds extremely deep and powerful. Not quite as impressively deep as the Salon2's, but "close enough" that I'd probably still be happy running them without a subwoofer. But unlike the Salon2's, I think they're tuned really nicely in that you won't feel like you're wasting the potential of the F328Be's if you do use a subwoofer.

What electronics were used to drive the F328Be v Salon2 test?

 

[Bernard 54]

I have now listened to the Revel Salon2’s and Revel F328Be’s side by side in the same room, thanks to the flagship Harman Store in NYC. I listened and compared somewhat blind, in that I had a remote which could switch them but didn’t know which I was listening to. However I say “somewhat” blind because it was not long before I could easily distinguish which I was listening to audibly. My wife also helped out and was able to provide an even less biased perspective in that sense, since she couldn't identify which was which but the opinions and preference did end up matching my own most of the time.

Conclusion: I found that the F328Be’s are overall noticeably better than the Salon2’s (while there are some pros and cons to each).

Of course, the details are more complex and there are some things the Salon2’s do better, or at least different. But a few things stand out to my ears:

• The F328Be seemed even cleaner and more “dynamic” at very loud levels than my Salon2’s and Genelec 8351B’s. In fact, the degree to which they effortlessly go loud across their entire frequency range is really impressive.
• The F328Be treble is smoother and more neutral sounding to me than the Salon2’s, very similar in quality to the Genelec 8351B. I think I’ve commented before that while the Salon2 treble is extremely good, it sounds a bit more peaky to me than my Genelec 8351B’s which until now is the most perfect treble I’ve heard. I’d say the F328Be is similar to the Genelec 8351B treble quality.
• They sound more focused than the Salon2’s with a bit less “surround” sound reflections, but still with a very pleasant amount. So it’s not quite as focused as e.g. my Genelec 8351B’s, but not as wide as the Salon2’s, and so I actually find the F328’s tuning in this respect to be extremely good and perhaps my favorite I have ever heard — even more versatile than either the Genelecs or Salon2’s to the wide range of music I listen to.
• The Salon2’s have more bass extension as expected, but though noticeable, it doesn’t sound like a massive difference. What the F328Be lacks in extension, I think it makes up for in quality -- seamlessly integrated, clean, undistorted, impressive dynamics are how I can best describe the F328Be bass. In terms of extension depth and power, the F328Be’s have more than enough bass such that it would be perfect full range for most music, and perfect when combined with a subwoofer to complement them for movies or extremely bass heavy music.

So I will most likely buy a pair of F328Be's at some point

P.S. Anyone want to buy a used pair of Salon2's in great condition? Just kidding but maybe not kidding

P.P.S. Oh and just as Amir's subjective impressions have suggested, there is no way I can imagine these speakers actually start rolling off bass at 100hz as the Klippel measurements seem to imply. Unless it's some trick of psychology, their bass sounds extremely deep and powerful. Not quite as impressively deep as the Salon2's, but "close enough" that I'd probably still be happy running them without a subwoofer. But unlike the Salon2's, I think they're tuned really nicely in that you won't feel like you're wasting the potential of the F328Be's if you do use a subwoofer.

I have always appreciated your posts on the forum and especially the latter.
However, I do have some questions.
Like you, I auditioned the 328BE. I felt this lack of bass extension and feel like you would consider using a subwoofer to compensate for that.
In addition, you recently confirmed that you did not listen to the W371A: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...enelec-w371a-the-ones-my-quest-for-the-grail- is-over.23198 / post-774605
Also, before making your decision, have you considered auditioning the W371A + 8351B or 8361A?
If you have financial issues, but I don't think you are, you might consider taking it step by step.
Maybe it's the WAF factor ??
I don't want to pose a family problem, but maybe you should go with her and do a listen before you make your final decision?

 

[richard12511]

I have to admit that I really do like the aesthetic of the Salon2 much more than the F328Be. I've never seen them side by side in person, though. Perhaps I'd feel differently in that situation.

 

[echopraxia]

Thank you, how far were you sitting from the speakers?

I didn’t measure so I can only guess that it was maybe 10-20 feet (not a very helpful range I suppose).

What electronics were used to drive the F328Be v Salon2 test?

Mark Levinson amplifiers (which I would assume are their best models), but honestly I didn’t pay too much attention to that since I’ve never thought ML amplifiers to have anywhere close to appealing price/performance. I trust that they were more than sufficiently powerful for the job.

Like you, I auditioned the 328BE. I felt this lack of bass extension and feel like you would consider using a subwoofer to compensate for that.
In addition, you recently confirmed that you did not listen to the W371A: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...enelec-w371a-the-ones-my-quest-for-the-grail- is-over.23198 / post-774605
Also, before making your decision, have you considered auditioning the W371A + 8351B or 8361A?
If you have financial issues, but I don't think you are, you might consider taking it step by step.
Maybe it's the WAF factor ??
I don't want to pose a family problem, but maybe you should go with her and do a listen before you make your final decision?

I definitely would still recommend everyone use a subwoofer if they can. Even my Salon2’s would benefit from a subwoofer to fill in extremely deep and loud bass when called for, but right now I have them in an apartment calibrated and flat to 20hz, they actually work quite nicely as floor-space-efficient full range speakers versus e.g. bookshelves and dual subwoofers, which while consuming less space volumetrically actually consume more square footage in terms of their floor footprint. The main issue with massive towers lIke the Salon2’s is the huge pain it is to move them around, so I’ll probably be moving them into a suburban house role eventually.

I didn’t say that the F328Be were definitely the best speakers I’ve ever heard, just that in that room comparing to the Salon2’s I find them overall preferable. I also suspect that the Genelec W371A + 8351B / 8361A definitely could sound even better than a Revel F328Be + subwoofer (especially if you prefer even more focused imaging via it’s more narrow beam), but I can only guess since I have not heard the W371A. I would love to find a place I can hear them near NYC, but a quick check for Genelec dealers here doesn’t show much promising. Maybe expanding my search to areas within reach of a weekend drive would yield more.

Even if I did hear the W371A + 8351B / 8361A, it would be a very difficult comparison to the F328Be unless I actually had them in the same room. My 8351B have a narrower beam than the F328Be, and I suspect this directivity difference would dominate most of the differences heard when comparing F328Be + sub(s) versus Genelec W371A + 8351B / 8361A. Given that they’re both exceptional speakers but with different directivity control / beam width tuning, I have absolutely no idea which would win. But particularly, due to the beam width differences, if I heard each in different rooms, I don’t know how I would disambiguate how much of the spatial quality differences are from differences between the rooms, vs from the directivity differences of the speaker systems.

 

[Bernard 54]

I would love to find a place I can hear them near NYC, but a quick check for Genelec dealers here doesn’t show much promising. Maybe expanding my search to areas within reach of a weekend drive would yield more.

Why not go for a long weekend in Paris which is a great city in June, especially at the moment ...
https://www.sortiraparis.com/news/i...-tourists-visiting-france-this-summer/lang/en
I am sure that David would be happy to welcome you

But particularly, due to the beam width differences, if I heard each in different rooms, I don’t know how I would disambiguate how much of the spatial quality differences are from differences between the rooms, vs from the directivity differences of the speaker systems.

I asked myself this kind of question before listening to the W371A. The listening rooms were of course different.
I no longer ask the question today ...

 

[MaxBuck]

Completely setting aside the sonic performance of these, which is no doubt superb, let me say that avoiding the use of beryllium is something that everyone who values environmental quality should support. The mining, refining and shaping of Be metal is nasty business.

 

[Beershaun]

"Beryllium - Overview | Occupational Safety and Health Administration" https://www.osha.gov/beryllium

I feel like silk dome tweeters are safer, cozier, and more comfortable for humans than reactive metals.

 

[thewas]

Unless you mechanically break it which isn't normal use, a beryllium membrane driver is absolutely no hazard to health, otherwise it wouldn't be allowed also in many countries,

 

[MaxBuck]

Unless you mechanically break it which isnt normal use, a berrylium membrane driver is absolutely no hazard to health.

Not in its consumer use. In its fabrication? Quite a different matter. Production of goods that contain beryllium entails a lot of negative environmental impact from the metal's mining, refining and fabrication.

 

[Beershaun]

Unless you mechanically break it which isn't normal use, a beryllium membrane driver is absolutely no hazard to health, otherwise it wouldn't be allowed also in many countries,

I think the intent was to highlight the impact to the workers and supply chain that create this luxury product. It's something that we should include in our choices. Like, it is unnecessary to kill people, fuzzy animals, and destroy habitat for our hobby. Being aware of that and making a choice to inconvenience worms seems like a better environment impact decision

 

[thewas]

I think the intent was to highlight the impact to the workers and supply chain that create this luxury product. It's something that we should include in our choices. Like, it is unnecessary to kill people, fuzzy animals, and destroy habitat for our hobby. Being aware of that and making a choice to inconvenience worms seems like a better environment impact decision

I generally agree on that, on the other hand if we extend that thought we shouldn't be spending at all resources or CO2 in a drowning planet for the luxury hobby audio or even discussing in the WWW, so every border is arbitrary.

 

[MaxBuck]

I generally agree on that, on the other hand if we extend that thought we shouldn't be spending at all resources or CO2 in a drowning planet for the luxury hobby audio or even discussing in the WWW, so every border is arbitrary.

We've discussed the advantages of cool-running amplifiers relative to their impact; don't think discussing the impact of beryllium use is out of bounds per that paradigm. But I'm not trying to berate anyone who's bought these things; just encouraging awareness.

 

[amper42]

I generally agree on that, on the other hand if we extend that thought we shouldn't be spending at all resources or CO2 in a drowning planet for the luxury hobby audio or even discussing in the WWW, so every border is arbitrary.

Once you hear the Revel F328Be tweeter it's hard to go back. I'm sure we can think of reasons not to support beryllium. But, I love the sound. I'm not giving back my wife's ring either if someone decides its a conflict diamond. A study by a Brazilian commission showed that 80% of all logging in the Amazon was illegal during the late 90s so you should be prepared not to buy a house either.

Beryllium is used in gears and cogs particularly in the aviation industry. It is relatively soft and has a low density. Beryllium is used in alloys with copper or nickel to make gyroscopes, springs, electrical contacts, spot-welding electrodes and non-sparking tools. Beryllium is also used in the manufacture of telecommunications infrastructure equipment, computers and cellular phones. Battery contacts and electronic connectors in cell phones and portable electronics are made with copper beryllium alloys. Looks like tweeters are a secondary use?

OSHA should enforce requirements to limit exposure to Beryllium on job sites. That may help protect workers unaware of the respiratory dangers beryllium can cause.

 

[Laserjock]

Completely setting aside the sonic performance of these, which is no doubt superb, let me say that avoiding the use of beryllium is something that everyone who values environmental quality should support. The mining, refining and shaping of Be metal is nasty business.

Probably why it costs a premium.
Would have to know where it’s mined, the safety around that and the production involving the workers at each stage.

Beryllium tweeters, also know as “blood tweeters” ?

 

[fluid]

85% of the world's Beryllium comes from a mine in Utah, owned by Materion who very tightly control the supply.

 

[echopraxia]

I think the intent was to highlight the impact to the workers and supply chain that create this luxury product. It's something that we should include in our choices. Like, it is unnecessary to kill people, fuzzy animals, and destroy habitat for our hobby. Being aware of that and making a choice to inconvenience worms seems like a better environment impact decision

Why avoid killing only *fuzzy* animals? Do not the less furr-gifted of the animal world deserve your compassion as well? For example, just look at this adorable little abomina… creature:

Just the thought of this little fellow being displaced by the onslaught of the evil Beryllium miners makes me want to #cancel my Salon2’s in protest!

Joking aside, I am all for safer materials and more sustainable production pipelines. I wonder why Beryllium is used for tweeters at all, when speakers like Genelec show that amazing results are possible with aluminum. Could it be something related to maximum SPL, ultra low distortion, or is Beryllium sonically superior in other ways? Or is it just for bragging rights, to sound exotic?

At the same time, I am skeptical that mining, refining, and usage of exotic metals is something that will ever go away completely (nor should it, if it has value and can be mined safely) — so I am wondering if it is possible to process Beryllium in a way that is safe for both workers and the environment, and what evidence we have that the existing processes are particularly negligent in their safety practices?

 

[Valentin R]

Beryllium is stiffer and lighter
That gives a better sensitivity and a higher breakup frequency

Off course the magnetic motor and the acoustical design in it are very important too get a good result

It’s and all rounder having a beryllium dome does not make it a good tweeter by itself
My 2 cents

 

[Helicopter]

I used to work with beryllium copper. A single exposure can cause permanent damage if you treat it like aluminum, but it is almost completely safe if you follow some basic and simple safety procedures. You should learn this stuff in an organization with written procedures from people who know what they are doing if you can, but it isn't asbestos circa 1950. Basically don't eat it and don't inhale the dust. I would handle clean parts without gloves except when sanding or grinding. If I were to sand or grind, I would rope off my work area, put on some nitrile gloves and a respirator and keep everything wet until the job and cleanup were done. Put the cleanup rags, sanding pads, etc. In a plastic bag and put that in the haz waste bin. Half the training was on respirator use and 40% on what happens to people who get poisoned so everyone takes the simple and easy process part seriously.

The magnetron in your microwave oven probably has beryllium oxide ceramic so you should get rid of that too, and you should refuse to go in the breakroom at work.

 

[MrPeabody]

No matter how amazing the Revel Beryllium speakers may sound and no matter what Revel says in their marketing spiel, it is exceedingly unlikely that the sound quality is influenced to any significant degree by the use of beryllium for the tweeter dome. Substantive differences in sound quality, for the beryllium speaker vs. a similar speaker in the Performa3 line, are the cumulative effect of numerous design differences between the two speakers. With respect to the F328Be this is obviously true given that in the Performa3 line there aren't any speakers with three 8" woofers. But even if you compare the F228Be to the F208, various differences will be found that will be much better explanations for any differences in how they sound, vs. the difference in the metal used for the tweeter dome.

The use of ultra-exotic materials in loudspeaker design has long been a successful practice, but more from a marketing perspective than an engineering perspective. Revel is no more and no less prone to this successful marketing practice than any other loudspeaker manufacturer. People (audiophiles especially) are impressed by the use of exotic aerospace materials in loudspeakers. Relative to a given stiffness, a dome made of beryllium will be less massive than an aluminum dome. A somewhat more powerful motor is therefore needed with an aluminum dome. This implies either a stronger Bl value or else greater wire length in the gap, either of which also provides the additional damping required by the more massive aluminum dome. All in all the aluminum dome tweeter will be slightly lower in efficiency and sensitivity. Beyond this, there is not likely any significant difference between beryllium and aluminum, as it applies to loudspeaker tweeters. I doubt whether anyone designing a speaker has encountered any difficulty finding tweeters with adequate efficiency and sensitivity. In general, tweeters are several dB more sensitive than the other drivers and need to be padded to bring their sensitivity in line with the other drivers. This is typically true even for tweeters that use non-metallic domes.

As to the question of whether there is any moral dilemma over the use of beryllium, the best answer is simply "no". The use of beryllium in aerospace and other industries is nowadays fairly common. And even if the use of beryllium weren't common, there are lots of other commonly used materials that are vastly more hazardous, that most everyone simply accepts as a fact of modern life. The common and unavoidable practice of storing fuel and highly toxic chemicals in facilities located within reach of urban centers poses a vastly greater risk to public health.

If what you really want in a speaker is for it to sound as correct as possible, objective measurements are the only way. Something that isn't pointed out nearly as often as it should be is that whenever there is a debate over which speaker (among several) is more correct, there is just one way that a debate of this sort can be settled, which is by comparing the objective measurements. Even if 90% of listeners prefer the sound of speaker A over the sound of speaker B, the only way to ascertain which speaker is more correct is by comparing objective measurements. If the objective measurements are so similar that it isn't apparent which speaker is more correct, then there isn't any genuine reason to think that either of them is more correct than the other.