Revel F228Be Review (Speaker)

[AudioSceptic]

Bass response below 80hz looks sub-optimal

Below 100 Hz, surely? Is this an artefact of Amir's measurement setup? I wonder what the -6 dB point is.

 

[Ron Texas]

@amirm, thank you for a great review of an important product. 226Be next?

 

[AudioSceptic]

Nice report as usual .

But I too wonder about the non-be versions of the "same" speakers in this series , there seems to be a corresponding models without Be that priced much better.
So is it worth it to get a Be version especially if you can get a much larger non Be version for your money ?

In Europe the prices are a bit eye watering , so a Kef floor stander becomes a better value proposition (if we talk speakers based on research that tries to be a consequence of the same research )

There's an ex-dem pair on ebay UK for £5.5k at the moment.

 

[Tonygeno]

So this review points to the (almost) necessity of having some sort of room correction software (Dirac, etc) available. Listening goes from "NOT positive to open, distortion-free and quite nice."

 

[Balle Clorin]

"@FreddyLost,
Max positive gain in room correction is limited to 6db in my setup. I understand that nulls shall not be corrected. I wonder if taking down the 31hz peak in someway also reduce the 46 dip, indirectly?

 

[ROOSKIE]

Why don't people listen to speakers before they buy? It amazes me to pay 10 000 USD and not even listen at home before purchasing.!!

Yes, the only place worth listening is in your own room.
Many, many people do not live near a dealer & it is 2021 so ordering online is how many people transact the vast majority of their purchases.
I can't see dealers being willing to loan out 10k speakers at least not in a big city. You need to buy to try.
In the end this is what 30-60 day return policies are for.

 

[ROOSKIE]

So this review points to the (almost) necessity of having some sort of room correction software (Dirac, etc) available. Listening goes from "NOT positive to open, distortion-free and quite nice."

You at least need to address in room/room specific peaks. This can be done with simple PEQ and free REW software.
Pretty much any set-up that has bass and especially robust bass, needs adjustments due the room and yet this is often overlooked entirely.
All the subjective reviewers who don't know and therefore do not do this and then try and comment on the bass quality are frustrating.

 

[dtaylo1066]

I have heard several of this line of Revel speakers and I thought them fantastic. Your data verifies my listening experience. I heard them driven by Mark Levinson gear. One of the best set ups I have ever heard. The ceramic/alum cones I believe are made by SB Acoustics. I have two such 5" drivers that I will DIY into a small 2-way monitor in the months ahead.

 

[F1308]

Lovely...
Here I am, still waiting for any floor stander loudspeaker maker go and provide an active design with DSP to smooth things out and nearly achieve perfection. Golden Ear perhaps...?
Headphone makers also welcome.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

Is this just a limitation of passive design?

It is eventually simply a trade-off of bass extension versus loudness. There is no substitute for swept volume. You can have any amount of bass extension you like, but you pay for it in maximum loudness, and you pay dearly. People like to complain that one speaker has more bass extension than another, but in the end it comes down to only one thing: area of bass drivers multiplied by maximum extension of the drivers. A ported design gets you a trifle more, but if you compare like with like - ported with ported, it still comes down to nothing more than swept volume.

Where you see this trade-off is often hidden in the speaker's sensitivity. Drop the sensitivity, keep the same maximum power, and you get more bass extension. But not as loud. At one extreme you end up with little more than headphones, and at the other extreme a PA system bass bin.

I am still puzzled by the measured bass response. Mostly because it doesn't look like a proper bass-reflex response. It isn't clear what is going on, but the fundamental physics of how one would assume it has been designed doesn't add up. The measured impedances match the Stereophile measurements to a very close degree, so there isn't any issue with the electrical side, and some other speakers measure exactly as one would expect, for instance the published bass response of the Footprints is almost exactly the same as the Klippel measurements. OTOH, the Footprints are sealed, and there isn't a port to fold into the response. Maybe there is something odd happening with integrating the port in the Klippel software. Then again maybe I'm just blathering. But I am puzzled.

 

[hmt]

I would think the tuning of the port is very low. This sacrifices sensitivity but the extension is lower. With the Revel you can have usable output to 30Hz wheras with a higher Tuning (like 50Hz) you would have a better sensitivity but you could not get any meaningful output below that even with EQ. Group delay is also lower for the midbass region and the speaker acts more like a sealed cabinet from 80Hz on.

 

[FeddyLost]

I wonder if taking down the 31hz peak in someway also reduce the 46 dip, indirectly?

I don't know for sure, but in principle this is possible. Energy is just re-distributed, especially if total LF output is the same...

 

[AM88]

Lovely...
Here I am, still waiting for any floor stander loudspeaker maker go and provide an active design with DSP to smooth things out and achieve perfection. Golden Ear perhaps...?
Headphone makers also welcome.

Buchardt has a relatively new series with highly regarded SB Acoustics drivers that, judging by appearances are also used by Revel. They are fully active with dsp.

 

[F1308]

Buchardt has a relatively new series with highly regarded SB Acoustics drivers that, judging by appearances are also used by Revel. They are fully active with dsp.

Thank you very much, AM88.
On my way to their site.
Lovely people hereabouts !!!!

Outstanding....!!!!
At Buchardt they're saying...
17 - 40.000 Hz +/- 1.5dB !!!! for the A700.

And my birthday getting closer and closer....

 

[Tonygeno]

You at least need to address in room/room specific peaks. This can be done with simple PEQ and free REW software.

I.E. some sort of room correction software.

 

[Harmonie]

In spite of the weight, curious to see the measurements in your normal listening room though.

Why is the Pink panther so shy and hiding behind the speaker again ?

 

[Frank Dernie]

I can't see dealers being willing to loan out 10k speakers at least not in a big city. You need to buy to try.

My local dealer in Oxford does home demonstrations of the more expensive stuff. I think there isn't a big enough margin to make it worth his while for less expensive stuff. If you are a customer he knows he will leave it with you for a week or two.
He doesn't sell anything you can buy with a big discount on the internet though, obviously.

 

[wannarock2]

.. tuned to the room, the sound was sublime.

that’s the way i’m hearing it

 

[Putter]

Don't know how the VR3s measure, but could be he's just used to them (e.g., their sound)

and there's nothing wrong with that!

 

[waynel]

Harman's spin shows slightly elevated on-axis response:

Maybe they were compensating for that?

Any idea why your Klippel measurement is showing just a depressed bass response vs revel's measurement and your nearfield measurement?