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Revel F226Be vs. F328Be

richard12511

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#24
I would guess it probably is(and you can see it in the spin), but only if you’re running separate subs. Run full range, I would bet that the Salon’s superior bass would matter much more than the slightly better drivers and waveguide.
 
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#25
I would guess it probably is(and you can see it in the spin), but only if you’re running separate subs. Run full range, I would bet that the Salon’s superior bass would matter much more than the slightly better drivers and waveguide.
The Salon2 has wider and more even dispersion, at least at the frequencies where dispersion matters. I'm not sure what difference smooth directivity would make above 10,000Hz. There's barely any content at that level, and frequencies that high rapidly decay and are absorbed by common materials.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but there are multiple ways to interpret the data. I can say just owning speakers with narrow (Genelec 8351) and wide (Revel Salon2) dispersion and very good directivity control, I much prefer the acoustics of wide dispersion speakers.

That's what leads to me to question whether most of these speakers are really better than Revel's Ultima2 line. Some might have marginally better control over the directivity, but if that control comes at the expense of width is that really a good thing? My ears say no.
 

richard12511

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#26
The Salon2 has wider and more even dispersion, at least at the frequencies where dispersion matters. I'm not sure what difference smooth directivity would make above 10,000Hz. There's barely any content at that level, and frequencies that high rapidly decay and are absorbed by common materials.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but there are multiple ways to interpret the data. I can say just owning speakers with narrow (Genelec 8351) and wide (Revel Salon2) dispersion and very good directivity control, I much prefer the acoustics of wide dispersion speakers.

That's what leads to me to question whether most of these speakers are really better than Revel's Ultima2 line. Some might have marginally better control over the directivity, but if that control comes at the expense of width is that really a good thing? My ears say no.
I didn't know it had wider dispersion. That is big imo, and I agree with you. The M2 also had better directivity control than the Salon2, but still lost due to having narrower dispersion.

If I had to choose between the two, I'd definitely take the Salon2.
 
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Sancus

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#27
In scientific/objective terms- higher SPL, less power compression;; lower non-linear distortion (see attached)- in this -all- important range.
I agree with you in general but I think both these speakers can play extremely loud in this region. Below 100hz the 328Be is clearly better, but... the two graphs you linked are different. Because Amir displays the fundamental and distortion together, it's not compensated for the different levels of the fundamental. So for example, the distortion displayed for 60-250hz at the 50dB line is more like -40dB, not -50dB, since the fundamental is down to ~90dB.

Erin's graphs, on the other hand, show relative distortion levels. Above 100hz, there is 5dB difference in distortion, or ~0.2%(328Be) vs ~0.4%(226Be) in that region. This is very low. Additionally, Erin tested much louder, and at 104dB distortion is still only slightly above 1% in this region, still far below audibility for frequencies this low.

It stands to reason that the 226Be can easily play 100dB+ transients without any problem. In fact, for HT(the main use in the OP) you would need quite the burly set of multiple subs to keep up with this speaker, since the LFE channel is at +10dB.

I do think you would cross higher than 80hz if you want to play super loud, but honestly I feel like you should generally crossover as high as you can get away with as long as you have 2 or more subs, it produces better results.
 
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#28
”I much prefer the acoustics of wide dispersion speakers.

That's what leads to me to question whether most of these speakers are really better than Revel's Ultima2 line. Some might have marginally better control over the directivity, but if that control comes at the expense of width is that really a good thing? My ears say no.
I think that is the big reason I prefer the BMRs in my room compared to anything else I have owned or auditioned. If you place them in a very wide/long room they throw a massive soundstage.
The Revel F226be did sound better to me in a different smaller room where side walls were closer.
 

richard12511

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#29
I think that is the big reason I prefer the BMRs in my room compared to anything else I have owned or auditioned. If you place them in a very wide/long room they throw a massive soundstage.
The Revel F226be did sound better to me in a different smaller room where side walls were closer.
Which begs the question, if wider dispersion is more important than slightly better frequency response and directivity control, maybe something like the new BMR Tower is even better than the Salon? It has even wider dispersion, just as good frequency response, but slightly less constant directivity. Salon2, Kii 3, and D&D 8C are the main 3 I have my eye on atm, but perhaps I need to take a closer look at the BMR Tower. 25Hz -3dB really has me intrigued for that speaker, especially for the price. Also has me wondering about the D&D and Kii comparison. I much prefer the aesthetic of the D&D, but the Kii does have wider dispersion.

What about even wider dispersion designs, though? At what point does it start becoming a negative? Would also really love to hear a totl Revel against an LX521. Perhaps someday!

You're also right that the room matters a lot. Although Harman science says same speakers will be preferred in all rooms, subjectively I haven't found this to be true. My Revels don't do well at all in my narrow(but long) office, but do great in the much wider main room. I just moved some of my JTRs into the office. It looks goofy, but sounds fantastic. I think the very narrow dispersion is actually preferable to wide dispersion in that narrow room.
 

Tom C

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#30
I’m starting to think that basically, the less you hear the room, the better. So, wide dispersion works nicely when it’s well away from the front and side walls. And for a narrow space, narrow dispersion is better.
 
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#31
I’m starting to think that basically, the less you hear the room, the better. So, wide dispersion works nicely when it’s well away from the front and side walls. And for a narrow space, narrow dispersion is better.
It is most likely anecdotal, but also find narrow directivity to work better in a narrower space. The BMR tower has me really intrigued as well.
 
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#32
I've been looking at a way to get the most speaker for my limited funds since I upgraded to one of your great amps.
The F328Be would be one of my dream speakers and if I had the money I'd simply order a pair and call it a day but alas, I will never again have THAT kind of money to spend unless I win the lottery.
After lots of reading, correspondence, etc.. I decided to take my meager funds and try my hand at a pretty high end DIY kit.
Assuming my stimulus check arrives so I can pay for it I'll be building a compact tower with Purifi 6.5" x 2 woofers + Satori dome midrange + Bliesma BE tweeter. DIY may be the last thing you want to deal with (considering the amp work you do) but then again.....

Best of luck choosing your pair
 
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#33
I've been looking at a way to get the most speaker for my limited funds since I upgraded to one of your great amps.
The F328Be would be one of my dream speakers and if I had the money I'd simply order a pair and call it a day but alas, I will never again have THAT kind of money to spend unless I win the lottery.
After lots of reading, correspondence, etc.. I decided to take my meager funds and try my hand at a pretty high end DIY kit.
Assuming my stimulus check arrives so I can pay for it I'll be building a compact tower with Purifi 6.5" x 2 woofers + Satori dome midrange + Bliesma BE tweeter. DIY may be the last thing you want to deal with (considering the amp work you do) but then again.....

Best of luck choosing your pair
If 87 sensitivity is sufficient for you, it is cheaper and easier at that point to order the BMR tower from Dennis for $3700 and call it a day.
 
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#34
I just got the 228be and 426be and have a pair of Martin Logan Balanced Force 212 subs. Powered by Krell 700 450 & 300. For home theater it is jaw dropping. For Lumin T2 two channel audio it is very good, fantastic soundstage, detail, accuracy but not the slam or large dynamic WOW sound I was hoping for. I only listened to them for an hour so I want to spend some time with them when I return from a trip but thinking about upgrading to the 328be's music. Every review I have read has said they play louder and larger and the explanations of what they did with the wave guide and why makes sense, the woofers are new but evolutionary not revolutionary but non the less supposed to be better and of course much larger cabinet volume and two ports. I am sure they do sound better but I will be very disappointed if they do not sound good enough.
 
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#35
If 87 sensitivity is sufficient for you, it is cheaper and easier at that point to order the BMR tower from Dennis for $3700 and call it a day.
I considered one of Dennis's designs but the towers (r they even available yet?) are too much $$ for me. So they may be easier but not cheaper. The BMR stand mounts were an option and I was actually going to buy 2 kits, but after speaking with the designer himself and being told they "frankly aren't the best match for your preferred music genres" and being encouraged by him to look at other options (used revels etc which were a good suggestion btw) I scratched the BMR's off of my shortlist. There are better options at better prices (For My Needs) in towers and even though the stand mount BMR Kits are Very affordable I don't think they're a good fit as my mains.
 
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amirm

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#36
The rule here is simple: if you can afford the more expensive speaker, get it. :) There is nothing that the F328Be does worse than its smaller brothers.

No, my motivation is not pure in what I said. I need to sell my review sample of F328Be! :) I will give you a killer price and order another matching one if someone is interested. Start a conversation with me if you are.
 
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#37
I considered one of Dennis's designs but the towers (r they even available yet?) are too much $$ for me. So they may be easier but not cheaper. The BMR stand mounts were an option and I was actually going to buy 2 kits, but after speaking with the designer himself and being told they "frankly aren't the best match for your preferred music genres" and being encouraged by him to look at other options (used revels etc which were a good suggestion btw) I scratched the BMR's off of my shortlist. There are better options at better prices (For My Needs) in towers and even though the stand mount BMR Kits are Very affordable I don't think they're a good fit as my mains.
If I remember correctly Dennis told me something similar when I initially contacted him. I know earlier he was not making much money making them and had a backlog of orders. I am confused why he still does this, but I cannot tell him how to run his business.

He had 1 tower pair in stock this morning due to a cancelled preorder, but if you cannot afford BMR Tower, dyi or BMR bookshelf are both good options. I choose disregard his “genre advice” and focus on the measurements. I listen to numerous genres and they sound fantastic with all.

Ultimately up to you to decide, also Revel F208/F206 sound fantastic btw.
 
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walt99

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#38
The rule here is simple: if you can afford the more expensive speaker, get it. :) There is nothing that the F328Be does worse than its smaller brothers.

No, my motivation is not pure in what I said. I need to sell my review sample of F328Be! :) I will give you a killer price and order another matching one if someone is interested. Start a conversation with me if you are.
I wonder if I could lay it down and use it for a center channel ;)
 

richard12511

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#39
Do we have measurements of the BMR tower? How similar is the dispersion pattern to the BMR?(@Dennis Murphy) Looking back at @hardisj's BMR review, and F226Be review, it's clear just how much wider the dispersion of the former is. Subjectively, Erin seemed more enthusiastic about the Revel. The Revel is a bit more neutral, but this was also true of the M2 in comparison to the Salon2, and the BMR has even wider dispersion than that. OP hasn't responded yet, but I would definitely be taking a look at the BMR tower. It also has better extension than the F226Be, and maybe even more than the F328Be.
 
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#40
Do we have measurements of the BMR tower? How similar is the dispersion pattern to the BMR? Looking back at @hardisj's BMR review, and F226Be review, it's clear just how much wider the dispersion of the former is. Subjectively, Erin seemed more enthusiastic about the Revel. The Revel is a bit more neutral, but this was also true of the M2 in comparison to the Salon2, and the BMR has even wider dispersion than that. OP hasn't responded yet, but I would definitely be taking a look at the BMR tower. It also has better extension than the F226Be, and maybe even more than the F328Be.
I believe Dennis stated he will have measurements next week of the BMR Tower. The current (updated) version of the BMR bookshelf is more neutral than the earlier one Erin measured according to Dennis’s comments.

The Revel is mostly very neutral but does have a shelved up response from 4khz-7khz on axis. This showed up in my off-axis measurement in one room. I also did not like how they sounded in that room which is why I sold them. They sounded slightly harsh. Also, they definitely sound slightly bright when toed in on axis.

Subjectively I like the BMR more for most music, but this is also room dependent. I liked the Revels more than the BMR in my basement and they really impressed at the dealer and friend’s house. The BMR sounds very neutral to me overall, hard to compare neutrality subjectively when its that close.
 
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