Meaning it’s transferable up to 2 years? So still not transferable up to 5 years like the old days when I bought my buddy’s Revel F12 and got new grills because they were bowed out (they were 4.5 years old). Well 2 years is better than none for transferable warranty. But if that beryllium tweeter blows in year 3, there goes the savings.
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Revel F208 Tower Speaker Review
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Pieter1267
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Another thing to consider. I dont know the cost of a berilium tweeter but i sure hope Revel and Harman make fair prices instead of the current car manufacturers do (7000 for 1(one) headlight unit.)
2 years is standard. The first 6 months the burden of proof is even on the seller, not buyer.
That said a decent company, shop, will never make you jump through all those hooples when things go sour. Its what i like about Quad. First of all, their 80s stuff is built to last. Grade A quality materials. Second, if they do need repair it wont cost you an arm and a leg. The new owners of Quad insisted on such service. Ive no clue about Revel. Judging from this thread, not a lot of people report problems. And blowing up woifers, tweeters, lets be honest: thats mostly people putting too much or overstressing their amps. Best advice a lot of people said: if you have money for 226be but not for the amp: get a 208 and buy a good amp for the money left in the budget.
Personally, ive considered a 226, and before 206. But i always eyed a bigger headroom so id either get a 228 or a 208. Both 226 and 206 probably also requires a sub. A 208 definitly doesnt perse. Looking at the rew measurements, the sound quality of the 208 is second to none. Those results is what justifies Revels (discount) prices.
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Revel or Genelec: the only ways that I would go now, based on personal experience.
Just loved the 208s.
Pieter1267
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So I was busy for a few days with my new Revel f208's, MiniDSP DDRC and the rest of my setup, 2 Dayton 15"subwoofers passively driven by a Behringer PA amp.
I did extensive reading on REW, alignment tools and the autoEQ function. In the end, I decided to only use 2 small filters for most of the F208 range seems fantastic and even if there are a few nulls, its the room. Its treated, both extensively and this is it. I will do no more.
The Jeff Mery video is nice but he uses quite some boost and I dont want that. I also find that if you eq the range to say 500 hz, the lower frequencies might be treated and get flatter, they also have less output and it skewes the already quite high mid/high character of this speaker.
What I was very suprised about is how Dirac is actually useful in smoothing some nulls in the measurement response.
This is the measurement with a high crossover at 52hz for the f208, and the same hz number and lower goes to the subwoofers, and the slight peq I made myself (92 and 139 -2 Left and 61 and 90hz -2 db right F208)
Then I ran Dirac
and the full shebang
all on 1/12 smoothing.
What do you think?
Im also confused by some comments on the original measurements by Amirm and the spinorama. To me it still looks very see saw throught the range but I guess the little deviance (most withing 2 or 3 db) is what makes a good speaker?
What would you do with the above measurements?
Where did you put your crossover?
Maybe more basic: what should I look in if at all, to EQ in the F208 range? Again, the slight downward slope towards the higher frequencies make me hesitate to only treat the lower frequencies as it will mess up too much of what is in essence and in its base, a very good responding speaker.
In general I have to say im very happy with these 208s. They work well with the subs and I learn so much using REW, even if it also drags me into several rabbit holes.
Thank you for any reply.
Yours,
Edit: after looking again at these graphs i better do some more work in integration and smoothing the sometimes wide nodes.
Part 2: redid the sub peq, then very mildly the 208. Placement makes 208 LF have nodes around 40-60 so the subs taking over from 60. Crossover gave some alignment issues. Fixed and confirmed with measurement. Looking good. Then reran dirac. Doesnt sound right. Its nice but takes somes character away. Even if i bought the ddrc, i havent used Dirac at all. More testing needed to see if i can make it a happy marriage.
I did extensive reading on REW, alignment tools and the autoEQ function. In the end, I decided to only use 2 small filters for most of the F208 range seems fantastic and even if there are a few nulls, its the room. Its treated, both extensively and this is it. I will do no more.
The Jeff Mery video is nice but he uses quite some boost and I dont want that. I also find that if you eq the range to say 500 hz, the lower frequencies might be treated and get flatter, they also have less output and it skewes the already quite high mid/high character of this speaker.
What I was very suprised about is how Dirac is actually useful in smoothing some nulls in the measurement response.
This is the measurement with a high crossover at 52hz for the f208, and the same hz number and lower goes to the subwoofers, and the slight peq I made myself (92 and 139 -2 Left and 61 and 90hz -2 db right F208)
Then I ran Dirac
and the full shebang
all on 1/12 smoothing.
What do you think?
Im also confused by some comments on the original measurements by Amirm and the spinorama. To me it still looks very see saw throught the range but I guess the little deviance (most withing 2 or 3 db) is what makes a good speaker?
What would you do with the above measurements?
Where did you put your crossover?
Maybe more basic: what should I look in if at all, to EQ in the F208 range? Again, the slight downward slope towards the higher frequencies make me hesitate to only treat the lower frequencies as it will mess up too much of what is in essence and in its base, a very good responding speaker.
In general I have to say im very happy with these 208s. They work well with the subs and I learn so much using REW, even if it also drags me into several rabbit holes.
Thank you for any reply.
Yours,
Edit: after looking again at these graphs i better do some more work in integration and smoothing the sometimes wide nodes.
Part 2: redid the sub peq, then very mildly the 208. Placement makes 208 LF have nodes around 40-60 so the subs taking over from 60. Crossover gave some alignment issues. Fixed and confirmed with measurement. Looking good. Then reran dirac. Doesnt sound right. Its nice but takes somes character away. Even if i bought the ddrc, i havent used Dirac at all. More testing needed to see if i can make it a happy marriage.
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Alice of Old Vincennes
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Throw the subs in the garage. EQ to Schroeder and enjoy.
Pieter1267
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Tempting! port bass is nothing to sneeze at. But im an idiot and spent lots of money and time into building a nice set of subwoofers and other equipment - and I really want to get better skill with REW and such, why not hobbytime a bit more?
Im rereading @amirm initial preview report and the no distortion fun starts around 100hz (he also ran the woofer only and you see it starts good in 30 range but between 50 and 100hz there is a dip). Below the F208 starts to perform less good. Still very good but regardless.
Also I want a system that I can play at various SPL levels, sometimes louder than is good for near field but im sometimes busy with things in others rooms around the house so higher volume doesnt matter. Then my music preference is so incredibly wide - for instance I also love reggae dub that you need to play with as much subwoofer power as possible, house, techno but also bass heavy funk, disco, hiphop, etc.
Ive also reread a lot on subwoofers, crossovers, Dirac and come to the conclusion perhaps I should approach it much differently and go for a much higher low filter frequency. Previously I was like you and think why buy expensive big floorstanders and then take out the sub bass area but again, reading Amirms OP even these big F208s really start to shine from 100hz and higher.
That said I also learned you can have asymetric crossovers with different slopes. Im going to work on a higher set of crossovers, but for fun ill also make an asymetric one that will start at the lowest possible f208 frequency range. Ill report back with some measuremenst if I have some decent results.
I must admit, I agree with Alice of Old Vincennes. The F208's are magnificent across the range (inclusive of typical in-room bass elevation). If your amplification matches their quality, I simply cannot see the need for anything else.
Using them with speak-on cables running into a pair of Benchmark AHB2 amps left absolutely nothing to be desired. The timbral variety and sheer 'liveness' (for want of a better word!) was just breath-taking. Sometimes you just have to let go of the measurements and just sit and experience the performance. At their best, I cannot see you needing anything further.
I say all this as a devoted Genelec user who would only consider returning to Revel as an alternative.
Pieter1267
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the numbers give a different picture, next to Amirms own review.
This is a measurement of the 208s without a sub
This is with a sub taking over below 100hz
Its much smoother and especially at higher SPL gives my other amp breathing space.
I did make a crossover that lets the 208 run down to 38hz with a sub asymetric pushing up from 20hz to 65hz. It just looks much better with a sub and im really not an expert in making them working together.
This one is with having the XO make a cut at 90hz.
ditto the waterfall looks better with sub than without
Without
with a sub
This is when i made an asymetric crossover for 38
and this is one crossed at 90
distortion basic 208
And this is one with a sub
Conclusion: without its a great speaker, with a sub, its better.
Spinorama
"
Tonality (Preference) Score
- Tonality (Preference) Score is 6.43 and would be 7.74 with a perfect subwoofer.""
https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/Revel F208/ASR/index_asr-v2-20210519.html
By all means choose to run them without, but the numbers, science says with a sub, this great speaker becomes even greater. I choose to run with. I also made Dirac work its magic. Its sublime now. Fantastic. They run great without any of these extras, but why would you not use modern technology.
Edit: i can see why you would like to keep the basic speakers liveliness. Hence the advice is (for any speaker that gets mated with a sub) to only alter lower frequencies with peq. Some dont even like Dirac, wich does like to change the full range. This is why im experimenting now both with a Dirac filter limited ar 300hz and nothing above. I dont even have REW autoEQ the nodes from the basic F208 so to keep its full character. When im done ill post a few measurements of different solutions vs the untouched.
Of course, the great thing about this F208, it works very well full range from the factory out. You are right generally speaking, it doesnt need it.
But adding the 'perfect sub' simply makes it undeniably better. Wich makes making true upgrades tricky to get right. Another factor is the room they are in. Some rooms are just better than others. Go full treatment with bass traps etc. Anyway, my goal is to improve whilst leaving the specific F208 as untouched as possible. Ill report back with the progress.
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Makes sense. The subs are not just for more bass but help with better even bass to compensate for the main speakers placement that’s usually optimized for imaging and mids / highs.
Pieter1267
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Well, after about 5 weeks, 70 million different peqs, dirac, no dirac, mso, etc. I came to the following conclusion:
- It pays to measure very carefully, preferably fixed MLP and MMM, as a null might not show up in a different position. Also plugged and not plugged ports;
- Even in corner placement, no plugged port config just gave such a more rich sound that I decided to keep it;
- The low frequencies have specific Revel characteristics. I felt to keep even the bumps in the measurements alone. There is a bit of a valley between 110 and 140 but every measurement came back as normal F208;
- I tried XO 40, 50 - 103 and every single hz in between. The measurements with my subs decided they perform good at 73 and 103 the most in phase;
- I then settled for a 73hz XO, LR24db for the subs, and 12db LR for the F208s;
- The ears are very important. Reading all @amirm made me settle on a fully un-peqed F208 config;
- I use horizontal Bi-Amping (crown xls 1502 for the woofers, Quad 606 mki for mid and high);
- I use 2 DIY 15" subs passive driven by behringer inuke 6000d;
- MiniDSP DDRC downgraded to 2x4HD so I can use MSO input filters;
- When using MSO, the "subs only'' mode, make sure to set the LPF in MSO and then leave those XO settings in MiniDSP alone for those subs and just XO the F208s output channels.
- Dirac sounds ...different, nice but REW was a good judge and I never got a smoother curve with Dirac vs without.
- I also figured: i bought these speakers for their character. With Dirac it just sounds a world away. I think its a great option for not so good speakers or difficult room but the F208 can settle with little EQing from REW, if at all. Of course, its all very personal.
As far as speakers go, the F208 are end game. Very happy.
- It pays to measure very carefully, preferably fixed MLP and MMM, as a null might not show up in a different position. Also plugged and not plugged ports;
- Even in corner placement, no plugged port config just gave such a more rich sound that I decided to keep it;
- The low frequencies have specific Revel characteristics. I felt to keep even the bumps in the measurements alone. There is a bit of a valley between 110 and 140 but every measurement came back as normal F208;
- I tried XO 40, 50 - 103 and every single hz in between. The measurements with my subs decided they perform good at 73 and 103 the most in phase;
- I then settled for a 73hz XO, LR24db for the subs, and 12db LR for the F208s;
- The ears are very important. Reading all @amirm made me settle on a fully un-peqed F208 config;
- I use horizontal Bi-Amping (crown xls 1502 for the woofers, Quad 606 mki for mid and high);
- I use 2 DIY 15" subs passive driven by behringer inuke 6000d;
- MiniDSP DDRC downgraded to 2x4HD so I can use MSO input filters;
- When using MSO, the "subs only'' mode, make sure to set the LPF in MSO and then leave those XO settings in MiniDSP alone for those subs and just XO the F208s output channels.
- Dirac sounds ...different, nice but REW was a good judge and I never got a smoother curve with Dirac vs without.
- I also figured: i bought these speakers for their character. With Dirac it just sounds a world away. I think its a great option for not so good speakers or difficult room but the F208 can settle with little EQing from REW, if at all. Of course, its all very personal.
As far as speakers go, the F208 are end game. Very happy.
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ENEN
Member
Thanks to the ASR for the invaluable contributions to the pursuit of scientific / objective Hi-Fi. After reviewing extensive measurement data and comments, I upgraded to the F208 + NCx500 AMP + MiniDSP SHD setup, replacing my trusty old Mirage M790 + Proton AA Series. Saving me countless trial-and-error steps. By the way, the M790 was also a fantastic speaker. I’ve never regretted owning it.
* Even in Chinese decor style, black speakers are fitting well
* Even in Chinese decor style, black speakers are fitting well
Congratulations, and happy listening.Thanks to the ASR for the invaluable contributions to the pursuit of scientific / objective Hi-Fi. After reviewing extensive measurement data and comments, I upgraded to the F208 + NCx500 AMP + MiniDSP SHD setup, replacing my trusty old Mirage M790 + Proton AA Series. Saving me countless trial-and-error steps. By the way, the M790 was also a fantastic speaker. I’ve never regretted owning it.
* Even in Chinese decor style, black speakers are fitting well
View attachment 446982
Excellent thread...
I'm on the prowl for F208's..
I'm setting up a new 2.1 channel system..
Room 16 x 23
Have available to play with:
Aragon 4004 mkii amp
Schiit Freya
Schiit Modi+ DAC
Denon x3600 AVR
HSU VTF-15 sub
Sources: vinyl, SACD/CD
Any thoughts?
Thank you
I'm on the prowl for F208's..
I'm setting up a new 2.1 channel system..
Room 16 x 23
Have available to play with:
Aragon 4004 mkii amp
Schiit Freya
Schiit Modi+ DAC
Denon x3600 AVR
HSU VTF-15 sub
Sources: vinyl, SACD/CD
Any thoughts?
Thank you
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What loudspeakers are you currently using ?
The Revel F208's should be very performant for your purposes.
Madrona Digital told me in April 2024 that Revel had confirmed to them that there would be a replacement for the F208. I have not heard an update. I expect more used F208's to become available on the market when a replacement is available to purchase.
If you are not using it already with your Denon '3600' AVR, consider purchasing the $20 Audyssey MultEQ Editor app from Google Play or the App Store to give you greater control over the sound in your listening space. Amir recommended the app in his review from April 2020:
Thank you so much...great infoWhat loudspeakers are you currently using ?
The Revel F208's should be very performant for your purposes.
Madrona Digital told me in April 2024 that Revel had confirmed to them that there would be a replacement for the F208. I have not heard an update. I expect more used F208's to become available on the market when a replacement is available to purchase.
If you are not using it already with your Denon '3600' AVR, consider purchasing the $20 Audyssey MultEQ Editor app from Google Play or the App Store to give you greater control over the sound in your listening space. Amir recommended the app in his review from April 2020:
I've been switching back and forth between Infinity Kappa 8s, JBL 580s in last few years...
*I retired a few months ago and got that speaker itch again ...
Thanks again
Alice of Old Vincennes
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What did you decide?
I'm still looking for a pair, not that easy to find, thank you..
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