Revel center speakers

[DLxP]

I'm in the market for a center speaker to pair with my F206 mains, and I'm struggling to decide.

The obvious options are the C205 or C208 - the latter pushing the budget. I'm also considering the C25.

Looking at the measurements on http://speakerdata2034.blogspot.com/, I'm having difficulty seeing why the C25 isn't the best option. It seems to have a flatter response than either the C205 or C208, and flatter even than the Ultima Voice 2 for that matter.

C205

C208

C25

Ultima Voice 2

Here's the C52 as well (measured by Amir)

One can see from the measurements that the C25 has less bass than the others, but I'll be crossing over at 80Hz anyway and I don't listen mega loud.

What am I missing? Surely the C25 can't be the best here ... ? The C205 and C25 are the only ones without the ~1kHz dip, but the C25 is generally flatter than the C205 (and the others) across the rest of the frequency range.

One advantage of the C208 and the Voice 2 is the midrange driver, which might counteract some of the off-axis issues with MTM designs. But is that their only notable advantage, in my set up?

I should say, I listen on-axis, so off-axis response is only an issue insofar as it affects reflections (which will be limited in any event, as I have soft sofas at the center's the first reflection points).

 

[MZKM]

Even if crossing at 80Hz, you want it to be able to play 80Hz with authority, as even though output will be lower, at loud volumes it may still distort/bottom out. The C208 for instance could even handle a 50Hz crossover, so it'll play 80Hz cleanly.

Center channels are mainly for those off-axis, so you want the listening window to be similar to the on-axis, and looking at the C208, the listening window is so much closer to the on-axis than with the C25's listening window to its on-axis.

But I agree about the Ultima center, just looking at the Spinorama, it doesn't look to offer much. But again, there is other stuff, like max SPL, how difficult is the impedance/phase, etc.

 

[Dj7675]

Not sure about your room or center location, but an M106 makes a great center. May not work in many setups, it if you have a projection screen, they go nicely below the screen.

 

[andreasmaaan]

The thing that makes the C25 an (imho) unacceptably compromised design for centre channel use is its WTW driver layout. Although this doesn’t particularly show up strongly in the spin (no doubt because revel has accounted for it well in other aspects of the design, eg the on-axis peak around the XO frequency), it will inevitably mean there are large suck-outs in the off-axis horizontal polar response. This will mean tonal balance is more highly dependent on seating position than with a 3-way centre channel design.

In the case of the C25, you will get an upper-midrange boost when seated in the middle, and an upper-midrange suckout when seated to either side. Ofc lots of budget centre channel speakers suffer from this problem, but IMHO the centre channel is the one channel where a 2-way design is best avoided (unless it’s a standmount used in its normal orientation).

 

[DLxP]

the listening window is so much closer to the on-axis than with the C25's listening window to its on-axis.

Ah yes, of course! That really does separate the C208 from the 205/25. That plus (or because of) the 3-way design is obviously where the money would be going.

Not sure about your room or center location, but an M106 makes a great center. May not work in many setups, it if you have a projection screen, they go nicely below the screen.

This might actually be the answer. I've been considering using a standmount as a center (I've done it twice before), but I didn't want a redundant speaker given I'd have to buy a pair. That said, standmounts come up on the used market more often, and are easier to sell on if (more likely when) I want to upgrade.

I'll be using a projector screen and placing the center under it. The positioning will be slightly compromised in that I want my eyes no lower than 1/3 of the height of the screen; that means the top of the center can't be much higher than about 60cm, about 30cm below ear height, but at a 3m distance. I'm thinking a very slight backwards tilt should help with that.

 

[HooStat]

given I'd have to buy a pair

I think they sell them as single speakers (M105 and M106).

Now this all makes more sense to me too. Helps me figure out what to do.

 

[Cahudson42]

If you are considering going with a single M105 (@$750 I believe) remember the Harmon Infinity R152 are going for $200/pr.
https://www.harmanaudio.com/loudspeakers/REFERENCE+152.html

If the objective is HT 'filling in voice' might there be little difference?

Even though the R152 has not been reviewed here at ASR, several have mentioned FR response might actually be better than the tested R162. Yes, Bass won't be, but you mentioned 80 HZ crossover to sub anyway? And the 5 1/4" woofer/mid should be best for Voice as well..

While I don't have the R152, I do have a pair of R162 for my BR stereo system and am very happy with them. If the R152 doesn't work to your satisfaction, they could be deployed on a secondary desktop/BR application..

 

[DLxP]

If you are considering going with a single M105 (@$750 I believe) remember the Harmon Infinity R152 are going for $200/pr.
https://www.harmanaudio.com/loudspeakers/REFERENCE+152.html

If the objective is HT 'filling in voice' might there be little difference?

Even though the R152 has not been reviewed here at ASR, several have mentioned FR response might actually be better than the tested R162. Yes, Bass won't be, but you mentioned 80 HZ crossover to sub anyway? And the 5 1/4" woofer/mid should be best for Voice as well..

While I don't have the R152, I do have a pair of R162 for my BR stereo system and am very happy with them. If the R152 doesn't work to your satisfaction, they could be deployed on a secondary desktop/BR application..

I'm based in the UK so this doesn't work for me unfortunately. The link literally doesn't work - it forces me to go to the UK site.

 

[Cahudson42]

Ugh. You could, if you wish, view the link by temporarily establishing a VPN into the states. I use Nord VPN into the UK to get my weekly dose of PMQ every Wednesday via iPlayer.

From there, perhaps you can find a uk or eu eBay or 3rd party forwarder for the R152. I am an 'oldster' in Florida where the C19 is poo-pooed by our politicians even more than Boris. So, unfortunately, I am locked at home and can't help.

Good Luck and have fun!

 

[DLxP]

I might give that a try just to have a look at the site - I've got a VPN.

You tune in to PMQs from the US? I can barely tolerate watching it from here in the UK!

 

[Cahudson42]

You tune in to PMQs from the US? I

Well, usually only the first 15 minutes or so. Starmer and Blackford. Watch Boris bluster and ignore the question. He has it down pat.

We have the 'electoral college' choosing our President and you guys have the 'first over the goalpost' parliamentary 'party rules' system where party bigwigs choose the PM. 'Ugh' to both..

 

[DLxP]

Yea, I do occasionally watch it too - it's kind of my job to keep on top of it.

Glad to see Keir's getting an audience across the pond

 

[Dj7675]

Ah yes, of course! That really does separate the C208 from the 205/25. That plus (or because of) the 3-way design is obviously where the money would be going.



This might actually be the answer. I've been considering using a standmount as a center (I've done it twice before), but I didn't want a redundant speaker given I'd have to buy a pair. That said, standmounts come up on the used market more often, and are easier to sell on if (more likely when) I want to upgrade.

I'll be using a projector screen and placing the center under it. The positioning will be slightly compromised in that I want my eyes no lower than 1/3 of the height of the screen; that means the top of the center can't be much higher than about 60cm, about 30cm below ear height, but at a 3m distance. I'm thinking a very slight backwards tilt should help with that.

With this mount it puts the M106 right below the screen and is angled up @ 6 degrees which is about right. Works well.
https://www.standsandmounts.com/vtidfseriescenterchannelspeakerstanddfcanddfc-19.aspx

 

[Haint]

Out of curiosity, are you having issues with the phantom center out of the F206's? I've personally never been able to get physical centers to sound right in setups with televisions, always preferred phantoms. The necessity of placing them above or below the TV and the differences in boundary interference and reflections relative to the LR mains has always made a physical center sound wrong to me. To be fair though, I have always had symmetrical setups with a center seat equidistant from the mains.

 

[DLxP]

With this mount it puts the M106 right below the screen and is angled up @ 6 degrees which is about right. Works well.
https://www.standsandmounts.com/vtidfseriescenterchannelspeakerstanddfcanddfc-19.aspx

Thanks - that looks perfect.

I'm tempted by the M105 actually. The measurements look great and I can get a good deal on one.

One thing I'm wondering about is whether a ported standmount would work in my situation. I'm planning to house the center in a cabinet for aesthetic reasons. A domestic comprise!

The cabinet would essentially be a hollow cuboid (H/W/D 70cm*100cm*60cm) with an acoustically transparent fabric front and hardwood top. I was planning to damp the inside surfaces of the cabinet with Rockwool or similar. The speaker could sit on the stand inside the cabinet. The base of the stand would be very stable - I'd probably sit it on a paving slab.

I'm fairly sure this won't be an issue with the ported design, given the port is tuned at very long wavelengths (65Hz on the M105, I think), but I'd appreciate views.

 

[TimVG]

I may have a C208 for sale soon .. located in the EU however.

 

[DLxP]

I may have a C208 for sale soon .. located in the EU however.

Might be tempted, depending on price/location (I'm in the UK)...

 

[andreasmaaan]

Thanks - that looks perfect.

I'm tempted by the M105 actually. The measurements look great and I can get a good deal on one.

One thing I'm wondering about is whether a ported standmount would work in my situation. I'm planning to house the center in a cabinet for aesthetic reasons. A domestic comprise!

The cabinet would essentially be a hollow cuboid (H/W/D 70cm*100cm*60cm) with an acoustically transparent fabric front and hardwood top. I was planning to damp the inside surfaces of the cabinet with Rockwool or similar. The speaker could sit on the stand inside the cabinet. The base of the stand would be very stable - I'd probably sit it on a paving slab.

I'm fairly sure this won't be an issue with the ported design, given the port is tuned at very long wavelengths (65Hz on the M105, I think), but I'd appreciate views.

How much clearance would there be around the back and sides the speaker? If the port doesn't have some breathing room, the speaker will see the enclosed space around it as an extension of the port and this will change (lower) the tuning frequency.

 

[TimVG]

Might be tempted, depending on price/location (I'm in the UK)...

Belgium - I have the original box in any case and shipping shouldn't be over €50. In case you're interested send me a PM and we'll talk

 

[DLxP]

How much clearance would there be around the back and sides the speaker? If the port doesn't have some breathing room, the speaker will see the enclosed space around it as an extension of the port and this will change (lower) the tuning frequency.

At least 30cm/12" in each direction.