Revel C208 Review (Center Speaker)

[ROOSKIE]

I dont understand any of this. Why are people saying B&M, with higher overhead, somehow the folks you can negotiate down? If anything it seems they would be the sort to stick to MSRP more than anything since their service is what I would assume, superior than a simple online retailer? Or is it simply that they are THAT desperate seeing as how B&M is dying, theyre willing to bend over backwards even further?

Revel does not allow advertised prices below retail. That means nobody online can advertise a discount.
In person you can sell for less. (Or sometimes by calling an internet retailer)
If you have ever sold anything in person, even at a yard sale, then you know what sales is all about. Compromise & getting the sale made. Many people are very incentivised to buy vs "think about it" when they are getting a discount. You still make money and the buyer actually buys.
The mark-up on passive hifi speakers when I worked in a hifi shop 20 years ago was huge. I don't think that has changed.
There is room to play with price.
Do not pay retail price on expensive speakers and large purchases.

 

[q3cpma]

I wonder what that distortion sounds like vs. other distortion characteristics

Don't know, but IMD is supposed to be much more easy to perceive than H2 or H3.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Looks like I wasn't propely awake. The "problem" is indeed the d'Appolito design and the lack of waveguide for the midrange. If it had been done perfectly, it could have been CD with a lower directivity fall.

Those 8" woofers are playing pretty high in frequency.
Revel likely could solve most of this issue with a mid that plays down to 500hrz.
I also suspect some of the dip is due to the surrounds on woofers interfering with the responces of the woofers themselves.
Anyway I guess the huge Revel "be" center might be fun to measure although very expensive.

edit woops, I misread something and thought those 8's were crossed in at 800hrz. 375hz is the actual and makes much more sense. Therefore 8's playing "up to high" for the given driver spacing in a MT/wM & the beefy surrounds on speakers playing up to 800hrz as thus affect the response, is not the reason for the response error...

 

[Haint]

Just curious am I the only one in the camp of those who prefer not to have a central speaker with 65” TV or under, or is it a respectable stance among ASR community?

Phantom center will probably sound better at the MLP/center seat from the relatively close viewing distances required for a 65" screen (phantom will produce a much larger center image from a mid field listening distance) but side seats will mostly hear a strong weighting to the singular L or R main directly in front of them. Extreme toe in may help with that somewhat.

 

[JimB]

CSD waterfall?

 

[Tks]

Revel does not allow advertised prices below retail. That means nobody online can advertise a discount.
In person you can sell for less. (Or sometimes by calling an internet retailer)
If you have ever sold anything in person, even at a yard sale, then you know what sales is all about. Compromise & getting the sale made. Many people are very incentivized to buy vs "think about it" when they are getting a discount. You still make money and the buyer actually buys.
The mark-up on passive hifi speakers when I worked in a hifi shop 20 years ago was huge. I don't think that has changed.
There is room to play with price.
Do not pay retail price on expensive speakers and large purchases.

I'm new blood with respect to this sorta stuff (going on 30). Yard sales really can't be seen here in NYC. And haggling works in pawn shops, but any big box retailers? Not a chance unless you know you're in the market for a product that's been sitting on store shelves without many purchasers.

Though if Rolex authorized dealers can pull backroom shady deals (oh you want that Daytona in stainless steel for MSRP? Come buy a few of these others first, and then we'll sell you the Daytona), then I suppose large speaker purchases can also be sold at some negotiated price.

I just assumed these sorts of speakers that perform well, would have more demand, and so less of a reason to have to deal with customers trying to haggle. Meh, what do I know.

 

[Haint]

I'm new blood with respect to this sorta stuff (going on 30). Yard sales really can't be seen here in NYC. And haggling works in pawn shops, but any big box retailers? Not a chance unless you know you're in the market for a product that's been sitting on store shelves without many purchasers.

Though if Rolex authorized dealers can pull backroom shady deals (oh you want that Daytona in stainless steel for MSRP? Come buy a few of these others first, and then we'll sell you the Daytona), then I suppose large speaker purchases can also be sold at some negotiated price.

I just assumed these sorts of speakers that perform well, would have more demand, and so less of a reason to have to deal with customers trying to haggle. Meh, what do I know.

You're thinking within an audiophile bubble. The traditional boxed speaker industry is relatively small in general, I personally don't know a single person who still owns an amp/avr or full size passive speakers. The number of people within what is already a niche that are looking to buy single $2000 speakers is almost infinitesimal on the macro scale. The overwhelming majority people these days only own airpods, soundbars, or smart speakers. These are mass produced speakers which under normal circumstance have plenty of supply available, they gain nothing turning away sales to competing dealers or cheaper makes/models they may not carry.

 

[MZKM]

CSD waterfall?

Look at the frequency response, it’s the same thing. CSD just more easily shows peaks/dips, it doesn’t offer anything new.

 

[blueone]

I'm new blood with respect to this sorta stuff (going on 30). Yard sales really can't be seen here in NYC. And haggling works in pawn shops, but any big box retailers? Not a chance unless you know you're in the market for a product that's been sitting on store shelves without many purchasers.

Though if Rolex authorized dealers can pull backroom shady deals (oh you want that Daytona in stainless steel for MSRP? Come buy a few of these others first, and then we'll sell you the Daytona), then I suppose large speaker purchases can also be sold at some negotiated price.

I just assumed these sorts of speakers that perform well, would have more demand, and so less of a reason to have to deal with customers trying to haggle. Meh, what do I know.

Speaking only for the situation in the US, the dealer agreements with certain manufacturers strike me as weird. Two examples from my past: Benchmark Media and Revel. I'm a long time customer of Music Direct, and they were offering one of their occasional 10% off sales, or something like that. I was in the market for a Benchmark DAC-3L, so I gave them a call. No dice. The price was exactly the same as ordering it from Benchmark Media itself. It seemed rather odd that the two entities would compete for exactly the same customers at exactly the same price, but, whatever. I ordered the DAC from Benchmark.

When I was shopping for speakers that eventually led me to buy the Revel Salon 2s, this was in 2009, I was on a business trip in the Bay Area and heard a pair at a dealer. I listened for about three hours, fell in love with them, and wanted a pair sent to my home in another state. Can't do it, says the dealer. There's a local dealer in your city, and you have to order from them. Excuse me, says I? Why not just have Revel in Northridge ship them to my house? Sorry, but we can't.

So I get back from the trip and call my local dealer. They specialize in custom HT installs, they didn't have any experience with the Salon 2s, and for their inconvenience they wanted MSRP (the dealer in the Bay Area offered an attractive discount, before they knew they couldn't take my order). So I gave Revel a call, and gave them a sense of my dissatisfaction with their process and my local dealer. Revel referred me to a third dealer in a third state, who took my order, gave me essentially the same discount the Bay Area dealer offered, and had the Salon2s shipped from Northridge to my home, just as I wanted the Bay Area dealer to do. The third dealer was very helpful, but this was silliest process I've encountered in years of buying premium audio equipment. Perhaps things have changed, since this was 11 years ago, and I haven't tried buying any other Revel products since.

 

[Tks]

Yeah, that stuff is so weird. You can't tell if people simply don't want to be assed doing something they're not normally doing, or whether they legit think it's not possible to do the things you requested, but know for a fact shouldn't be an issue.

 

[blueone]

Yeah, that stuff is so weird. You can't tell if people simply don't want to be assed doing something they're not normally doing, or whether they legit think it's not possible to do the things you requested, but know for a fact shouldn't be an issue.

In this case I'm confident I could tell. The Bay Area dealer really wanted the sale, and seemed very disappointed that they couldn't. Hopefully Revel has changed their ways since then.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Speaking only for the situation in the US, the dealer agreements with certain manufacturers strike me as weird. Two examples from my past: Benchmark Media and Revel. I'm a long time customer of Music Direct, and they were offering one of their occasional 10% off sales, or something like that. I was in the market for a Benchmark DAC-3L, so I gave them a call. No dice. The price was exactly the same as ordering it from Benchmark Media itself. It seemed rather odd that the two entities would compete for exactly the same customers at exactly the same price, but, whatever. I ordered the DAC from Benchmark.

When I was shopping for speakers that eventually led me to buy the Revel Salon 2s, this was in 2009, I was on a business trip in the Bay Area and heard a pair at a dealer. I listened for about three hours, fell in love with them, and wanted a pair sent to my home in another state. Can't do it, says the dealer. There's a local dealer in your city, and you have to order from them. Excuse me, says I? Why not just have Revel in Northridge ship them to my house? Sorry, but we can't.

So I get back from the trip and call my local dealer. They specialize in custom HT installs, they didn't have any experience with the Salon 2s, and for their inconvenience they wanted MSRP (the dealer in the Bay Area offered an attractive discount, before they knew they couldn't take my order). So I gave Revel a call, and gave them a sense of my dissatisfaction with their process and my local dealer. Revel referred me to a third dealer in a third state, who took my order, gave me essentially the same discount the Bay Area dealer offered, and had the Salon2s shipped from Northridge to my home, just as I wanted the Bay Area dealer to do. The third dealer was very helpful, but this was silliest process I've encountered in years of buying premium audio equipment. Perhaps things have changed, since this was 11 years ago, and I haven't tried buying any other Revel products since.

Yes, this is deff a side effect of trying to support local dealers and ensure a level playing field for sales.
Sometimes even when the intentions are good, we all know "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
By the way Music Direct unfortunately is not a place that negotiates very much if at all. Even in person in Chicago. They do often have B-stock sales and open box pricing, you can call them sometimes for unadvertised sales.

I just assumed these sorts of speakers that perform well, would have more demand, and so less of a reason to have to deal with customers trying to haggle. Meh, what do I know.

Well if the product is in high demand (like the new Kef Meta LS50) you may need to wait a bit for initial sales surge before being able to negotiate a discount due to supply/demand. Also I don't know much about super high priced stuff like Wilson and Magico.
Big box stores don't usually negotiate however smaller hifi/home install focused shops do. If they won't I wouldn't give them the sale on expensive items - especially speakers. (Mark up on electronics is often less)
When I worked at Audio King, a negotiated 20-25% discount on speakers was the norm. (20 years ago though)

 

[Rottmannash]

In this case I'm confident I could tell. The Bay Area dealer really wanted the sale, and seemed very disappointed that they couldn't. Hopefully Revel has changed their ways since then.

So strange. How would he feel if you stuffed them into your rented minivan and drove them to the nearest shipping company? Bizarre. How would Revel know the Bay Area dealer shipped them anyway?

 

[blueone]

So strange. How would he feel if you stuffed them into your rented minivan and drove them to the nearest shipping company? Bizarre. How would Revel know the Bay Area dealer shipped them anyway?

That's amusing. If you saw the shipping boxes for the Salon 2s you would understand why. Each one is as big as a medium-sized refrigerator, and weighs something like 165 pounds.

 

[ctrl]

The Revel C208 center speaker, if Amir's listening test is to be believed, is a good example of how even a badly flawed speaker design, with proper crossover tuning, can still sound good.

Here, as is often the case with center speakers, aesthetics were clearly placed above a sensible LS design.
An asymmetrical design would make more sense in terms of horizontal directivity - but would be difficult to convince the consumer of such a design.

Since the midrange driver has a crossover frequency of 375/2450Hz, its symmetrical alignment is responsible for horizontal uneven frequency responses in this frequency range (and other effects caused by the two woofer cones).
Especially the 4dB dip of the axial frequency response around 950Hz caused by edge diffraction (first cancellation).

The axial frequency response and the listening window (LW) is not linear at all, it seems to be sufficient if sound power (SP) and thus also the in-room response (IR) is linear - at least it meets Amir's listening taste.


The speaker designer seems to have focused on the most balanced sound power possible during crossover tuning - that's interesting, apparently the direct sound (on-axis + LW) is not so important after all

 

[ROOSKIE]

@ctrl "
Since the midrange driver has a crossover frequency of 375/2450Hz, its symmetrical alignment is responsible for horizontal uneven frequency responses in this frequency range (and other effects caused by the two woofer cones).
Especially the 4dB dip of the axial frequency response around 950Hz caused by edge diffraction (first cancellation). "


375 hrz is about a 3 foot wavelength with a quarter length of about 0.75feet, are these two 8's far enough apart that they are not acting as one? Obviously they play beyond 375hz with reduced output as they are crossed out but it seems like this crossover frequency should be able to overcome the lobbing issues that multiple drivers present.
Even 750hrz is still 1.5feet/18 inches. It just seems low enough to be essentially unaffected by these lobbing issues.

*edit it does look like I wasn't thinking clearly and they are to far apart. maybe 12-14" center to center so they would truly act as one at approx. 250-275hrz. It would make more sense to put the woofers side by side on one side of the speaker, of course as you said that wouldn't look good to any number of buyers.

 

[Rottmannash]

That's amusing. If you saw the shipping boxes for the Salon 2s you would understand why. Each one is as big as a medium-sized refrigerator, and weighs something like 165 pounds.

Let me edit my fantasy-place one of the boxes in your oversized panel van and then come back for the 2nd? On a serious note, several members have PM'd me to ask where I bought my F208's and one member, who is 2 states away was willing to drive down here to purchase them and drive them back to his state, all for a good discount. Don't know if he ever actually purchased them here though. Hell, I'd drive 2-3 hours to save $2,000.

 

[amirm]

I did not see the disclaimer you have posted previously on reviews of Revel speakers as to bias or conflict of interest you may have with regards to Revel and Harman

Ah, I am so sorry. It should have been there. Added now to the review:

Important notice: our company, Madrona Digital, is a dealer for Revel products. While our business is custom electronics installation and not much "high-fi," you should assume as much bias as you feel necessary in my subjective remarks in this review. The measurements are produced as with any other product and no attempt has been made to make them different than any other speaker measurement.

 

[walt99]

I looked seriously at the 208 for a center but it would have required replacing/eliminating my current stereo cabinet, just too big!

 

[Rottmannash]

I looked seriously at the 208 for a center but it would have required replacing/eliminating my current stereo cabinet, just too big!

Same here-I wanted one sooo bad to match my F208's but I had to go with the Infiniti instead-and it barely fit in the slot in my cabinet.