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Restarting from scratch, audio setup in a small room.

anotherhobby

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Interesting. I'm still learning but iirc Amir posted a video on the benefit of multiple subs. For what it's worth, since my speakers already contain a 10 inch woofer each, to get any improvement my startpoint would be adding a 12 inch sub. Right?
There are too many other factors involved to apply woofer size as a rule, and technically the sub drivers do not need to be bigger than the bass drivers on your mains, even though this is probably most often the case. In general, a 10" sub will have more "sub" output than a 10" woofer that is not a sub, but you may want larger depending on all sorts of stuff including room size and space.
 
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Trell

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Buying a miniDSP 2x4 Flex or something becomes cheaper the higher tier you go with Genelec. GLM adds much more costs at the higher tier speakers.
You can use their 8000 series and go external DSP for cheaper if you start looking at the 8330 and above.

With a miniDSP 2x4 Flex you'll have to buy a Dirac license and a microphone, and won't save that much buying 8330A+GLM Kit vs 8030C+miniDSP 2x4 Flex+Dirac+microphone. The savings are probably a large part in buying a non-Genelec subwoofer.
 

Tangband

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Well, we agree on there being a compromise. Saying "marginal utility" does acknowledge a compromise. Just not a big one. However, I have no idea how having two subs would increase the crossover frequency versus one. Are you implying that you would raise the crossover frequency above 80hz (where the frequencies start to be locatable) and then place each sub under each main?
The closer you can place your two stereo subwoofers to the main speaker , the higher in frequency you can do the crossover. 120 Hz is no problem if each stereo subwoofer is standing very close to the main speaker. 120 Hz is very troublesome If you use only one subwoofer . In a threeway floorstander with a 10 inch woofer placed 10 cm below a 4 inch midrange, theres no problem to crossover as high as 500 Hz in most cases.

Theres a connection between wavelenghts and the distance between the loudspeaker drivers. At higher frequencies , like a crossover at 3000 Hz, the distance between a midrange and a dometweeter must be very small to not be audible.

Now, one might argue that below the rooms transition area ( below 200 Hz ) you cant clearly hear the directions of the sound. The hard truth is that in reality, no single subwoofer have infinite steep crossoverfilter or have such low distortion in the driver themselves, that youre not gonna hear artefacts an octave or more above the crossover frequency . Those artefacts makes it easy for the listener to hear the location of the subwoofer. All real instruments also have overtones ( a bassguitar as high as 8 KHz ) and those overtones must arrive to the ear in exact time compared to the fundamental tones.

Subjective experiences:

My own experience with only one subwoofer , is if I follow the pitch of the tones played by a bass player , and I wont be able to hear the location of the single subwoofer, and no blurring is done to the bassplayers tones, I have to use a steep crossover ( 48dB/oct ) and not crossover higher than 55 Hz .*
This testing has been done with Genelec SAM subwoofers and before this with my own DIY dsp subs, with exactly the same result. With two stereo subwoofers, I can crossover much higher, 100 Hz is no problem if those stereo subwoofers are placed near each main speaker.

*It is absolutely true for me though, that with static sine tones ( without overtones ) I have much harder to hear the location of the single subwoofer, even at higher frequencies than 55 Hz. But this is not the way real music works.
 
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srrxr71

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Keep in mind that covers speakers and amplification, and they work well without a sub.

You can get nickel and dimed spending hundreds on amps, room correction, subwoofers…. and you’re still going to reach your budget very quickly with speakers a significant tier below the KH150. I would plow your money into the most important component (speakers), and then add things like room correction or subs later on if you feel you need to, but your foundation will still be solid.

The equivalent from Genelec would also be very good, it comes down to preference.
Agreed. When I got the 8341 I was fully satisfied. I mean just wonderful.

It’s just one’s monkey brain that reads: “a sun adds solidity to the sound”. Then suddenly the cogs start turning in one’s head.

So the first sub came. To tell you the truth it was quite unsettling. I’m not used to that sound. Also living in an apartment with neighbors might have some contribution to the feeling. Anyhow like all things audio one gets used to it. Then starts to like it and appreciate it. Then starts to get a little too comfortable with it.

Frankly I wouldn’t go down that road unless you have a prior reference for deep clean bass. If not just forget about it unless you can really support it in every which way. Once you go down that road problems crop up.

One could be neighbors. Two is the desire to escalate your budget rapidly. Three is the desire to buy acoustic panels (personally I would buy panels before a sub). Four is potential rattling of things in your home.

That bass is important but might be more trouble than it’s worth. It’s really last 10% stuff at potentially 6x the cost or more.

Remember we make ourselves happy. Just be happy with what you have.

Edit: also I was coming from KEF LS50w. So no matter what the graphs tell you and whatever conclusion you wish to draw, even 8341 bass satisfaction just takes it to a new level.


I would just face it. Sound quality of this level just get a desktop system and be happy. Get a few panels. Don’t over do it. Just really appreciate it. Keep it small and simple. No matter how much you scale this up it will not cover more than one person. That’s a different system for that sort of thing imho.
 
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srrxr71

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The closer you can place your two stereo subwoofers to the main speaker , the higher in frequency you can do the crossover. 120 Hz is no problem if each stereo subwoofer is standing very close to the main speaker. 120 Hz is very troublesome If you use only one subwoofer . In a threeway floorstander with a 10 inch woofer placed 10 cm below a 4 inch midrange, theres no problem to crossover as high as 500 Hz in most cases.

Theres a connection between wavelenghts and the distance between the loudspeaker drivers. At higher frequencies , like a crossover at 3000 Hz, the distance between a midrange and a dometweeter must be very small to not be audible.

Now, one might argue that below the rooms transition area ( below 200 Hz ) you cant clearly hear the directions of the sound. The hard truth is that in reality, no single subwoofer have infinite steep crossoverfilter or have such low distortion in the driver themselves, that youre not gonna hear artefacts an octave or more above the crossover frequency . Those artefacts makes it easy for the listener to hear the location of the subwoofer. All real instruments also have overtones ( a bassguitar as high as 8 KHz ) and those overtones must arrive to the ear in exact time compared to the fundamental tones.

Subjective experiences:

My own experience with only one subwoofer , is if I follow the pitch of the tones played by a bass player , and I wont be able to hear the location of the single subwoofer, and no blurring is done to the bassplayers tones, I have to use a steep crossover ( 48dB/oct ) and not crossover higher than 55 Hz .*
This testing has been done with Genelec SAM subwoofers and before this with my own DIY dsp subs, with exactly the same result. With two stereo subwoofers, I can crossover much higher, 100 Hz is no problem if those stereo subwoofers are placed near each main speaker.

*It is absolutely true for me though, that with static sine tones ( without overtones ) I have much harder to hear the location of the single subwoofer, even at higher frequencies than 55 Hz. But this is not the way real music works.
Wow 55Hz is shocking to me.

I did not test but vaguely remember my transition from one sub to 2. Really these monitors need the highest possible crossover frequency to preserve the dynamics of the in built woofer imho.

With 8341 I always used 100Hz and wished it could go to 125Hz to attempt to cure a high Q dip around 120Hz which I could not otherwise solve with placement. Ceiling panels seemed to change the characteristics of that dip but I can’t remember for sure.

I used 60Hz for the 8361. In my case it was a song by song variation of which one was running into its limits. Bass cannot be localized theoretically under 80Hz they say. However in reality these subs distort. They get overdriven. Then you can easily localize them. Because those distortion frequencies are easily locate the sub(s).

Going from 1 sub to 2 subs felt like it cured some of the wonkiness of bass guitars. The sound of the bass guitar was always skewed towards the side of the sub before.

When the second sub came it centered the bass guitar properly. I had each sub close to its respective monitor.

This is why I would advise folks to just be happy with the monitors and sit closely.

If one goes down the subwoofer route they would do well to consider that their budget will grow almost exponentially to get back to that purity of just hearing the monitors. Deep bass is a very tough game to play.
 
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Marc v E

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Anyhow like all things audio one gets used to it. Then starts to like it and appreciate it. Then starts to get a little too comfortable with it.
This makes total sense to me.
Actually this is exactly what happens to me when I get a sound (or vision) upgrade. It becomes the new normal by which everything is judged.

Btw when I listened to the 8351 I was missing nothing. Same with my current 'full range' spealers without a sub. Actually I think I could do without, but I'm just curious. Especially to get a cleaner bass. Not so much deeper.

I also have the 8030 that I keep appreciating without a sub. Don't feel like I'm missing anything when I listen to them, just enjoying how they communicate the music.

Maybe I will open pandora's box when trying a sub, who knows. What I do know is that a realistic tonality of instruments and voices is most important to me. When it's right I just start relaxing, while if it's not quite right it keeps bugging me.
 
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Trell

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This makes total sense to me.
Actually this is exactly what happens to me when I get a sound (or vision) upgrade. It becomes the new normal by which everything is judged.

Btw when I listened to the 8351 I was missing nothing. Same with my current 'full range' spealers without a sub. Actually I think I could do without, but I'm just curious. Especially to get a cleaner bass. Not so much deeper.

I also have the 8030 that I keep appreciating without a sub. Don't feel like I'm missing anything when I listen to them, just enjoying how they communicate the music.

Maybe I will open pandora's box when trying a sub, who knows. What I do know is that a realistic tonality of instruments and voices is most important to me. When it's right I just start relaxing, while if it's not quite right it keeps bugging me.

The effect of using a subwoofer depends on the room, the speaker/subwoofer placement and the listening position. On my 2.1 desktop setup my two 8330A have a deep and wide dip below 95 Hz or so, and for me a subwoofer helped a lot using a crossover at 95 Hz which has a narrow dip centered at 38 Hz and otherwise flat down to 16 Hz or so.
 

srrxr71

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This makes total sense to me.
Actually this is exactly what happens to me when I get a sound (or vision) upgrade. It becomes the new normal by which everything is judged.

Btw when I listened to the 8351 I was missing nothing. Same with my current 'full range' spealers without a sub. Actually I think I could do without, but I'm just curious. Especially to get a cleaner bass. Not so much deeper.

I also have the 8030 that I keep appreciating without a sub. Don't feel like I'm missing anything when I listen to them, just enjoying how they communicate the music.

Maybe I will open pandora's box when trying a sub, who knows. What I do know is that a realistic tonality of instruments and voices is most important to me. When it's right I just start relaxing, while if it's not quite right it keeps bugging me.
If you are sitting close and the sub is integrated perfectly the main effect imho is that everything sounds more solid.

I think you get perfectly clean bass without a sub. Even in systems without deep bass at all your brain just fills in the fundamentals using the harmonics. The bass guitar sounds perfectly clean. Adding a sub just makes it sound more like it’s solidly in your room. In any case they go pretty deep especially in room. My -6dB point on even 8341 was 27Hz or something like that.

If however you are running the 8351 into orange lights then most likely your issue is midbass and not deep bass. That’s why sitting close is helpful. It takes that out of the equation better.

Reinforcement helps. Ideal to have both wall and desk. If not you can have desk reinforcement. Wall reinforcement can give you +10dB under 100Hz. GLM will cut those but it gives you headroom there.

I would say not so much cleaner bass but perhaps effortless bass.
 
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Marc v E

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If you are sitting close and the sub is integrated perfectly the main effect imho is that everything sounds more solid.

I think you get perfectly clean bass without a sub. Even in systems without deep bass at all your brain just fills in the fundamentals using the harmonics. The bass guitar sounds perfectly clean. Adding a sub just makes it sound more like it’s solidly in your room. In any case they go pretty deep especially in room. My -6dB point on even 8341 was 27Hz or something like that.

If however you are running the 8351 into orange lights then most likely your issue is midbass and not deep bass. That’s why sitting close is helpful. It takes that out of the equation better.
Thank you for explaining.

I have two B&O beolab 9's that go to 30 hz or so. I think I know what you mean that they give the sound solidity. On my workdesk I have the Genelec 8030. I did audition the 8351's but they aren't mine (yet). Seriously considering them as the successors to the Beolabs when those are end of life. What I meant with previous post is that some seem to find the 8351 lacking in bass (compared to the 8361) but that doesn't bother me at all.

I'm trying to figure out if sub bass is something that would add to my main speakers or desk speakers in the mean time. Will probably buy a minidsp flex and borrow a sub from a friend to see if I like the result.
 
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srrxr71

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Thank you for explaining.

I have two B&O beolab 9's that go the 30 hz or so. I think I know what you mean that they give the sound solidity. On my workdesk I have the Genelec 8030. I did audition the 8351's but they aren't mine (yet). Seriously considering them as the successors to the Beolabs when those are end of life. What I meant with previous post is that some seem to find the 8351 lacking in bass (compared to the 8361) but that doesn't bother me at all.

I'm trying to figure out of sub bass is something that would add to my main speakers or desk speakers in the mean time. Will probably buy a minidsp flex and borrow a sub from a friend to see if I like the result.
Yes minidsp flex and taking REW measurements is the best way to know.
 

Tom C

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Interesting. I'm still learning but iirc Amir posted a video on the benefit of multiple subs. For what it's worth, since my speakers already contain a 10 inch woofer each, to get any improvement my startpoint would be adding a 12 inch sub. Right?
My apologies to you if you are already aware of this, but this worksheet compiled by our own @sweetchaos has been a gold mine for many, myself included. The data density is rather high, so it takes some time to work through, but is well worth the effort, and the only way to choose a subwoofer, in my opinion.

Subwoofer Comparison Worksheet

You can see that cabinet design, driver design, and amp design all factor into the final output of the system. It’s more than 8-in vs 18-in drivers, that’s just one design choice that must be made. Off course, the larger diameter driver will beam more at any given frequency vs smaller diameter. The smaller will be more omni. And cone breakup occurs at a lower frequency for the larger diameter driver, which may be a consideration, depending on where you want to set the crossover.
I would say the decision to sub or not to sub is largely a matter of taste. Most speaker systems put out bass frequencies, even those little ear buds that just get cradled in the external ear canal (especially if you push the things deeper into your ears with your fingers, to seal better). But the question is, at what level? Some folks like a cut in bass, some prefer ruler flat, others bass boost with downward sloping response at increasing frequencies. Arguing over which is better is pointless, and best left to children.
Myself, I prefer a bass boost with flat mids and treble. I’m aging, so too much of a treble cut is unpleasant for me. Now, when I was 25, too much screechy treble was anguish, but I have always liked bass boost, more so than my pals. People are individuals, one size does not fit all. So, for me, subwoofers are greatly pleasurable. Room filling bass does more for me to make the listening experience immersive than does multichannel sound. And when I go to hear live music, the bass is often similarly room filling, at least for pop/rock/country.
Use of multiple subwoofers can create a very powerful sound, which some find overwhelming. But really, it’s just adding increased output at frequencies you are probably already hearing.
 

srrxr71

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For me it I could say that most vocals are recorded so well that I felt the vocalist was in my room even with a limited set up like 8341. Perhaps some instruments also. But not all.

Bass sounded like it was there but coming through a window. Drums as well. Having said that the subjective effects are song and recording dependent.

Getting the spectrum correct down to 23Hz or so made ALL the instruments feel like they are playing in my room. That’s the feeling of solidity. It also eases your brain as what you are hearing and feeling are more congruent.

Otherwise your brain is working subconsciously to “fill in” those lower frequencies.

Basically as you go up the fidelity chain you are relieving your brain of all that subconscious work. That’s been my experience as I’ve upgraded my system first to point source and then to go full range.
 

Hexspa

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I didn't read this whole thread but if anyone hasn't mentioned acoustic treatment yet, let me be that guy. My thought comes from the saying, "Have 10x the value of your speakers in acoustic treatment." That might be an excessive number, especially if you DIY and depending on your sonic preferences, or it might not. Personally, I think I couldn't be happier than 2-feet-thick fluffy insulation over all my available surfaces. If you're more moderate then 15% absorptive coverage is likely to improve your experience. Succinctly, if I didn't have any absorption in the room then I'd just listen on earbuds or headphones.
 

NiagaraPete

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I see the 8030 in stock locally for $879 CDN each. Pretty good price considering all the other options I've been looking at. 8351B is way out of my ballpark over $5k per.
If you're in Toronto a fellow has a pair of lightly used 8340's with GLM. Checkout Facebook marketplace.
 
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decryption

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I am in a very similar situation (but in Australia, not Canada) in terms of room size and budget. I have more or less decided on Genelec speakers for a few reasons:
  • Extremely high ratings across their product range, safe bet regardless of what I choose.
  • Classic looks that some people aren't fond of, but I like particularly the raw aluminum models.
  • Easy resale should I change my mind, will always be a market for these for audio producers at least.
  • GLM room correction appears to be best in industry (actually does bass management) versus Dirac Live and Audyssey MultEQ-X.
The main downside of Genelec GLM range is cost. While the 8320A would be more than suitable for my room, they don't have digital input - which means the signal is getting converted from digital to analog by a DAC on my computer, then from analog to digital by the speaker's DSP, then digital to analog by the DSP to speaker's amplifier. Not an ideal situation.

Compare this full Genelec GLM setup:
  • 2x 8330A & GLM kit combo - A$3099
  • 7350A subwoofer - A$2199
  • Douk Audio U2 USB to Coax digital interface - A$70
  • 1m RCA to XLR cable - A$17
  • Total: A$5,385
To a similar sized Genelec setup without GLM:
  • 2x 8030C - A$2198
  • SVS 3000 Micro or PB-1000 Pro subwoofer (multiple available used near me) - A$1000
  • MiniDSP Flex with balanced output & Dirac Live & UMIK-1 - US$879 inc shipping (A$1300)
  • Total: A$4,498
Is GLM worth an extra $900? Maybe. Dirac Live is good but the lack of subwoofer integration (the biggest challenge in a small room like ours) could be worth the extra cash for GLM. But if I was going Genelec but non-GLM and a good quality sub, I could probably use the much cheaper 8020D thanks to my near-field listening position (desk setup) and small room and achieve the same results as the bigger 8030C post-EQ:
  • 2x Genelec 8020D - $1,610
  • SVS 3000 Micro subwoofer - $1000
  • MiniDSP Flex with balanced output & Dirac Live & UMIK-1 - $1300
  • Total: $3,910
That's a $1,500 saving over the GLM kit - but I still worry about Dirac Live vs GLM and the results it would give me integrating the sub in the room. I don't want to spend days/weeks fiddling with subwoofer stuff!

To throw a spanner in the works, there's also Neumann's gear, which as evidenced in this thread, is quite well regarded.
  • Neumann KH 80 DSP (pair) - $1,478
  • Neumann KH 750 DSP subwoofer - $2,413
  • Neumann MA1 alignment mic - $419
  • Behringer UMC22 (USB-XLR interface for alignment mic) - $95
  • Douk Audio U2 USB to Coax digital interface - $70
  • RCA to BNC cable - $9
  • Total: $4,484
I'm unsure of the room correction and sub integration quality of Neumann's Automatic Alignment however. Neumann's subwoofer (KH 750 DSP) seems to go much lower than Genelec's 7350A however - 7350A: 22Hz-160Hz (-6 dB) vs KH 750 DSP: 16Hz-800Hz (±6 dB). I also worry about the KH80 being in the same situation as the Genelec 8320A where the signal from the subwoofer is converted from digital to analog, then analog to digital for DSP, then back to analog for the speaker's built in amp - unless all the digital conversion and DSP work is done on the subwoofer and it sends the corrected signal to the speakers in analog?
 
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dshreter

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I am in a very similar situation (but in Australia, not Canada) in terms of room size and budget. I have more or less decided on Genelec speakers for a few reasons:
  • Extremely high ratings across their product range, safe bet regardless of what I choose.
  • Classic looks that some people aren't fond of, but I like particularly the raw aluminum models.
  • Easy resale should I change my mind, will always be a market for these for audio producers at least.
  • GLM room correction appears to be best in industry (actually does bass management) versus Dirac Live and Audyssey MultEQ-X.
  • Neumann
The main downside of Genelec GLM range is cost. While the 8320A would be more than suitable for my room, they don't have digital input - which means the signal is getting converted from digital to analog by a DAC on my computer, then from analog to digital by the speaker's DSP, then digital to analog by the DSP to speaker's amplifier. Not an ideal situation.

Compare this full Genelec GLM setup:
  • 2x 8330A & GLM kit combo - A$3099
  • 7350A subwoofer - A$2199
  • Douk Audio U2 USB to Coax digital interface - A$70
  • 1m RCA to XLR cable - A$17
  • Total: A$5,385
To a similar sized Genelec setup without GLM:
  • 2x 8030C - A$2198
  • SVS 3000 Micro or PB-1000 Pro subwoofer (multiple available used near me) - A$1000
  • MiniDSP Flex with balanced output & Dirac Live & UMIK-1 - US$879 inc shipping (A$1300)
  • Total: A$4,498
Is GLM worth an extra $900? Maybe. Dirac Live is good but the lack of subwoofer integration (the biggest challenge in a small room like ours) could be worth the extra cash for GLM. But if I was going Genelec but non-GLM and a good quality sub, I could probably use the much cheaper 8020D thanks to my near-field listening position (desk setup) and small room and achieve the same results as the bigger 8030C post-EQ:
  • 2x Genelec 8020D - $1,610
  • SVS 3000 Micro subwoofer - $1000
  • MiniDSP Flex with balanced output & Dirac Live & UMIK-1 - $1300
  • Total: $3,910
That's a $1,500 saving over the GLM kit - but I still worry about Dirac Live vs GLM and the results it would give me integrating the sub in the room. I don't want to spend days/weeks fiddling with subwoofer stuff!

To throw a spanner in the works, there's also Neumann's gear, which as evidenced in this thread, is quite well regarded.
  • Neumann KH 80 DSP (pair) - $1,478
  • Neumann KH 750 DSP subwoofer - $2,413
  • Neumann MA1 alignment mic - $419
  • Behringer UMC22 (USB-XLR interface for alignment mic) - $95
  • Douk Audio U2 USB to Coax digital interface - $70
  • RCA to BNC cable - $9
  • Total: $4,484
I'm unsure of the room correction and sub integration quality of Neumann's Automatic Alignment however. Neumann's subwoofer (KH 750 DSP) seems to go much lower than Genelec's 7350A however - 7350A: 22Hz-160Hz (-6 dB) vs KH 750 DSP: 16Hz-800Hz (±6 dB). I also worry about the KH80 being in the same situation as the Genelec 8320A where the signal from the subwoofer is converted from digital to analog, then analog to digital for DSP, then back to analog for the speaker's built in amp - unless all the digital conversion and DSP work is done on the subwoofer and it sends the corrected signal to the speakers in analog?
A couple things to consider:
1. You need an audio interface, something to control the volume of the system, even if you go “all digital” with Genelec. That is unless you will use GLM for volume control.
2. I would not worry about the additional AD/DA conversion step for the monitors with analogue in. This conversion is transparent and being used in very high end systems. I’m not saying you shouldn’t go digital, but that is not the aspect I would worry about among other more important factors.
 

Marc v E

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I am in a very similar situation (but in Australia, not Canada) in terms of room size and budget. I have more or less decided on Genelec speakers for a few reasons:
  • Extremely high ratings across their product range, safe bet regardless of what I choose.
  • Classic looks that some people aren't fond of, but I like particularly the raw aluminum models.
  • Easy resale should I change my mind, will always be a market for these for audio producers at least.
  • GLM room correction appears to be best in industry (actually does bass management) versus Dirac Live and Audyssey MultEQ-X.
  • Neumann
The main downside of Genelec GLM range is cost. While the 8320A would be more than suitable for my room, they don't have digital input - which means the signal is getting converted from digital to analog by a DAC on my computer, then from analog to digital by the speaker's DSP, then digital to analog by the DSP to speaker's amplifier. Not an ideal situation.

Compare this full Genelec GLM setup:
  • 2x 8330A & GLM kit combo - A$3099
  • 7350A subwoofer - A$2199
  • Douk Audio U2 USB to Coax digital interface - A$70
  • 1m RCA to XLR cable - A$17
  • Total: A$5,385
To a similar sized Genelec setup without GLM:
  • 2x 8030C - A$2198
  • SVS 3000 Micro or PB-1000 Pro subwoofer (multiple available used near me) - A$1000
  • MiniDSP Flex with balanced output & Dirac Live & UMIK-1 - US$879 inc shipping (A$1300)
  • Total: A$4,498
Is GLM worth an extra $900? Maybe. Dirac Live is good but the lack of subwoofer integration (the biggest challenge in a small room like ours) could be worth the extra cash for GLM. But if I was going Genelec but non-GLM and a good quality sub, I could probably use the much cheaper 8020D thanks to my near-field listening position (desk setup) and small room and achieve the same results as the bigger 8030C post-EQ:
  • 2x Genelec 8020D - $1,610
  • SVS 3000 Micro subwoofer - $1000
  • MiniDSP Flex with balanced output & Dirac Live & UMIK-1 - $1300
  • Total: $3,910
That's a $1,500 saving over the GLM kit - but I still worry about Dirac Live vs GLM and the results it would give me integrating the sub in the room. I don't want to spend days/weeks fiddling with subwoofer stuff!

To throw a spanner in the works, there's also Neumann's gear, which as evidenced in this thread, is quite well regarded.
  • Neumann KH 80 DSP (pair) - $1,478
  • Neumann KH 750 DSP subwoofer - $2,413
  • Neumann MA1 alignment mic - $419
  • Behringer UMC22 (USB-XLR interface for alignment mic) - $95
  • Douk Audio U2 USB to Coax digital interface - $70
  • RCA to BNC cable - $9
  • Total: $4,484
I'm unsure of the room correction and sub integration quality of Neumann's Automatic Alignment however. Neumann's subwoofer (KH 750 DSP) seems to go much lower than Genelec's 7350A however - 7350A: 22Hz-160Hz (-6 dB) vs KH 750 DSP: 16Hz-800Hz (±6 dB). I also worry about the KH80 being in the same situation as the Genelec 8320A where the signal from the subwoofer is converted from digital to analog, then analog to digital for DSP, then back to analog for the speaker's built in amp - unless all the digital conversion and DSP work is done on the subwoofer and it sends the corrected signal to the speakers in analog?
No worries. Ime Genelec would be a very good choice as an hifi solution. Glm is what I would choose if I knew what I know now.

If I were in your situation I would try to demo a few models to know what monitor is the sweet spot for you. That should channel remaining choices into 1,2 or 3. You could start by checking the spl you need, the room size and distance to your speakers. (See Genelec site for which monitors they recommend).
If you can't demo I would go for the biggest monitors I could afford.
 

decryption

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You need an audio interface, something to control the volume of the system, even if you go “all digital” with Genelec. That is unless you will use GLM for volume control.

I would probably use GLM for volume control. But something like the SMSL PO100/Douk U2 can do volume control too and give me a transparent digital output with either the Genelec SAM speakers or Neumann DSP range. On a non-Genelec GLM/Neumann DSP system I would be using a MiniDSP Flex, which can control the volume, I think?

I would not worry about the additional AD/DA conversion step for the monitors with analogue in. This conversion is transparent and being used in very high end systems. I’m not saying you shouldn’t go digital, but that is not the aspect I would worry about among other more important factors.

You are correct - but something about the double conversion of the digital signal bothers me, even if there's no discernible audio quality difference.
try to demo a few models to know what monitor is the sweet spot for you

Good idea, I should at least listen to the Genelecs and Neumanns. Where will let me do this in Melbourne, Australia - I don't know.

See Genelec site for which monitors they recommend

30 cubic meter room, listening distance 1m - 3m away, which means the 8320A is more than suitable according to Genelec's chart.
 

dshreter

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SMSL PO100/Douk U2 can do volume control too
Are you sure? The reason I point this out is volume control is something you need all the time. GLM volume control is reportedly annoying (plus you would have to leave the GLM network connected full time). PC volume control would worry me that it gets turned up to 100% by accident to easily, plus I like to have a knob and remote.

MiniDSP would do the job if you go with that.
 

decryption

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Are you sure?

See this video about the Douk U2 - demo of it in use appears to have volume sliders that can go up and down:

Screenshot 2023-01-03 at 6.13.29 pm.png


You can also set a hard volume limit in GLM too: https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-u...volume-how-can-I-prevent-that-from-happening-
 
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