• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). There are daily reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Response to PS Audio on P12 PowerPlant Measurements (Video)

don'ttrustauthority

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
593
Likes
318
Thank you! I haven't asked yet for a refund and am planning to asap. This is all just so overwhelming. I agree, I hope to find more owners who are in the same boat as me. I also have a Stellar Phono, and at this point would just like PS Audio to allow me to return all of my gear. Zero confidence.
I don't know anything about their other gear. I would say if it works as it was supposed to you might want to keep it, but I understand how it feels to lose confidence in a seller.

I got a 'plat tested tube' with bent legs from an upscale audio vendor and never bought from them again, and dropped out completely from the fast tube game. Obviously if the most trusted vendor can make an error like that, then I can't trust any tube that I buy.

They have saved me thousands of dollars since I stopped completely buying from them, and had a vpi turntable in my sights! Got a cheap b&o off ebay instead.
 

TheBatsEar

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
1,722
Likes
2,701
Location
Germany
Thank you! I haven't asked yet for a refund and am planning to asap. This is all just so overwhelming. I agree, I hope to find more owners who are in the same boat as me. I also have a Stellar Phono, and at this point would just like PS Audio to allow me to return all of my gear. Zero confidence.
Don't go into this with false hopes, it's unlikely that you get a refund if the purchase is not a week or two in the past.
sSspnll.jpeg

Good luck, dude.
 

don'ttrustauthority

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
593
Likes
318
Considering the amounts I've been reading about, this is not an unreasonable request. I would think 10 employees at a high end company would easily eat that in six month to a year.
 

JRS

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Messages
838
Likes
729
Location
Albuquerque, NM USA
Personally I think some of the character attacks on Paul M. have gone a little far (especially on youtube comments).....

I'd think a company like, say, Benchmark, is much less vulnerable to this "blowing up in your face" problem, and would likely be much more attendant to technical defenses/explanations of their product when scrutinized.
Brilliant engineering is always a good defense, even when the gains may be inaudible. Here it's hard to understand. A good computer power supply and car audio amps sound fine to me ears.

And with all the Class D and switching PS's these days, I fail to understand how this is even a thing, or am I mistaken in believing that class D is less suscesptible to line grunge?
 

don'ttrustauthority

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
593
Likes
318
So netting it out:

...

One leg of AC goes from input to output. Then the other leg is regenerated with +- 60 volt amplifier in sync with the incoming AC.
How much should it cost to make this machine?
 

JRS

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Messages
838
Likes
729
Location
Albuquerque, NM USA
No you are not mistaken. Class D with a SMPS (PWM) is less susceptible to the AC mains stuff that a linear unregulated supply is susceptible to.
Thanks for verifying this. I worked in a lab with a mains polluter in the top half of the bldg--practically had to shut down whenever whatever they were doing got fired up (we were measuring picoampere currents). And have in the past agreed with the premise that 2 and 3 am listening was superior, altho that could have been the scotch and cognac or cannabis talking. ;)

Anyway, it's another reason to embrace class d in my upcoming MCh amp purchase.
 

don'ttrustauthority

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
593
Likes
318
Yes... but.... how would you know if you never LISTENED to one?
Would it not be better to simply go without a fuse in the design? I mean, if the audiophile fuse costs more than the component it is protecting ....
 

tmtomh

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
1,589
Likes
4,871
Apologies if this particular point already has been covered, but I just finished watching @amirm 's video on this and was kind of stunned when he put up the slide with Paul McGowan's public response. The technical misstatements and obfuscations are one thing, and the personal digs at Amir are not in and of themselves a big deal (thought they are offensive, gratuitous, and deflecting).

But some of what McGowan writes in the course of those digs at Amir is actually provably incorrect factually, and I very much doubt that any reasonable person could conclude that McGowan did not know those statements were inaccurate, or should not have known, when he wrote them.

In other words, some of what McGowan has written about Amir there is legally actionable - it's libel and defamation. I'm not saying Amir should pursue legal action - and I know that tons of frivolous and bogus defamation suits get filed in the US every year, and I am not a fan of that (to say the least). But just as a point of interest, to my eyes a person would not have a difficult time making a libel case based on what McGowan has written in this case.
 

pkane

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
4,196
Likes
7,247
Location
North-East
Would it not be better to simply go without a fuse in the design? I mean, if the audiophile fuse costs more than the component it is protecting ....
But...but...but... how would I get a night-and-day improvement without a fuse??? Bypassing it is just going to make it sound less life-like, more cold and sterile... I think o_O
 

don'ttrustauthority

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
593
Likes
318
But...but...but... how would I get a night-and-day improvement without a fuse??? Bypassing it is just going to make it sound less life-like, more cold and sterile... I think o_O
Personally, I find tubes work great!
 

don'ttrustauthority

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
593
Likes
318
Apologies if this particular point already has been covered, but I just finished watching @amirm 's video on this and was kind of stunned when he put up the slide with Paul McGowan's public response. The technical misstatements and obfuscations are one thing, and the personal digs at Amir are not in and of themselves a big deal (thought they are offensive, gratuitous, and deflecting).

But some of what McGowan writes in the course of those digs at Amir is actually provably incorrect factually, and I very much doubt that any reasonable person could conclude that McGowan did not know those statements were inaccurate, or should not have known, when he wrote them.

In other words, some of what McGowan has written about Amir there is legally actionable - it's libel and defamation. I'm not saying Amir should pursue legal action - and I know that tons of frivolous and bogus defamation suits get filed in the US every year, and I am not a fan of that (to say the least). But just as a point of interest, to my eyes a person would not have a difficult time making a libel case based on what McGowan has written in this case.
For it to be actionable, a reasonable person would have to think the statements are going to be believed.
 

tmtomh

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
1,589
Likes
4,871
For it to be actionable, a reasonable person would have to think the statements are going to be believed.

That's an easy bar here, because there are plenty of people all over the internet, including people active in the relatively specialized audiophile community, who do in fact believe those statements. There's plenty of online documentation of FUD about Amir and his tests circulating, which could easily be mobilized as evidence that a reasonable person could indeed believe McGowan's statements.
 

don'ttrustauthority

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
593
Likes
318
That's an easy bar here, because there are plenty of people all over the internet, including people active in the relatively specialized audiophile community, who do in fact believe those statements. There's plenty of online documentation of FUD about Amir and his tests circulating, which could easily be mobilized as evidence that a reasonable person could indeed believe McGowan's statements.
Lots of people believe in UFOs. Doesn't mean a court will find it reasonable to say an accusation that "Amir flies UFOs at night" will be believable.

all I want is ONE BLIND TEST since the manufacturer and many of their customers say they can easily hear an improvement in audible performance. If this is true, show it to the world! If you are telling a fib, shame on you!
 

voodooless

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
5,683
Likes
9,354
Location
Netherlands
Lots of people believe in UFOs.
To be fair, UFOs are real. They are simply unidentified objects that happen to fly. They could be anything from specs of dust on a lens, birds, planes, balloons to alien spacecraft. The likelihood of the latter is just not that big ;)
 

tmtomh

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
1,589
Likes
4,871
Lots of people believe in UFOs. Doesn't mean a court will find it reasonable to say an accusation that "Amir flies UFOs at night" will be believable.

all I want is ONE BLIND TEST since the manufacturer and many of their customers say they can easily hear an improvement in audible performance. If this is true, show it to the world! If you are telling a fib, shame on you!

If Amir is flying UFOs, then they're not UFOs, since the pilot is of this world and therefore it is highly unlikely that the craft is extraterrestrial - and even if it is, it's still easily identifiable. So of course it's not reasonable that such an accusation would be believable - which makes it an irrelevant analogy to McGowan's claims about Amir.

That said, I want to be clear that I agree with you about the importance of a blind test - it would be a simple thing to do, and the fact that they don't do it is consistent with their response to Amir's measurements.
 
Top Bottom