Respected audio brands BS?

[velasfloyd]

Hi everyone.

I would like to "hear" your opinion regarding a topic I have been thinking nowadays. If we are here, most of us, is because we are objectivist who believe in evidence and try to let the BS as far as possible. So we are scaping from other forums full of BS, golden ears, audio myths, and so on.

The case is that there are some respected brands out there...

I am in the search of my new headphones and I want to spend some money on it, so I am focusing in this respectable brands. But then, I see this in Dan Clarke web page when I am looking at the Aeon closed shop:

We're also now offering an upgrade option to select our super-premium VIVO cables, which offer a larger soundstage, smoother tone, improved ergonomics, and a choice of 2.5, 3.5, or 4.4mm tips, as well as 2 and 3m 1/4" and 4-pin XLR terminations.

what? you too?
I know this is a business and they need to sell to survive, but after seeing this kind of BS, I think there is 2 options:

1- The Brand owners knows that this is BS, but they need marketing to sell, so they lie
2- The Brand owners are acting in good faith, they really believe that is true.... but then how they can be producing "top state of the art headphones" with this level of ignorance?

so as you can see, they are liars or incompetent? now, I dont want to point out only to dan clark audio. All of you saw the results of the review from the expensive amp from Sennheiser... again, they know this amp is BS for the price they ask for? or they are just incompetent? Focal amps have not been reviewed, but may we have another case there too.... and so on.

what do you think? I am mistaken may be?

 

[Wes]

a respectable brand would offer reliable units with a good warranty (Bryston)

or explain that, no these are not a lot better than the old ones (Magneplanar, Vandersteen IIRC)

but a co. has to respond to market forces, so marketing writes up some guff and they do it

no idea where your co. fits in

 

[Fluffy]

Not sure what makes (formerly) MrSpeakers a respectable brand. True, they are pretty known and successful, but they had always sold over priced gear. They have some interesting design goals, but that doesn't prevent them from marketing audiophool hype. And this is pretty much what it looks like – marketing hype. They need to move product, and cables are one of the most profitable ones, so they try to sell to whoever is going to buy it.

Besides, you need to remember that every company's main goal is to make money. Most companies adopted the way of the BS to marketing, because it what works best for the uneducated consumer. Some companies market themselves as scientific, like Benchmark, and focuses on tech specs and publishes measurements. Everyone needs to find their shtick in an overcrowded market. It is our responsibility as consumers to filter out the marketing talk and judge the products for what they really are.

 

[velasfloyd]

Not sure what makes (formerly) MrSpeakers a respectable brand. True, they are pretty known and successful, but they had always sold over priced gear.

If Im in the market for a $500-$2000 headphone, which respectable brands (not overpriced) would you suggest to look at?

 

[Fluffy]

@velasfloyd
Honestly, I don't think headphones should cost so much. This is an area where diminishing returns take over pretty fast. The difference between 500$ and 1000$ phones of the same brand can be tiny, and even tinier between the 1000$ and the 2000$ models. They sell them at those prices because there are people who will buy them.

Also, I suspect most companies first make their flagship headphone, and then fuck it up in all sort of ways to create their lower tier offers. Then they can put a ridiculous price tag over their flagship, knowing that few people would buy it, but that justifies the still pretty high prices on the lower models – that probably take as much effort to manufacture as the higher-tier ones, but as I said are just more "fucked up" to make the lower cost reasonable.

And yet, I still bought the Focal Clear that cost upwards of 1,500$. Why? Well, because I really really loved the sound, and that is how much it cost to get that particular sound signature (I did buy it at a sale though).

My point in all of this is that – don't go by price range, go by sound signature. If you are going to spend that much on a headphone, it's best to go to a physical store with a descent selection of cans, and try them out yourself. Don't buy based on measurements – it's fine for most things, but not headphones; their sound depends on your head and ear structure. You could be surprised and discover that you actually prefer a lower-end model and don't need to spend that much. You should go by sound and comfort, not by price tag.

 

[velasfloyd]

thanks @Fluffy
I appreciate your words and the time you spent to give me advice, I will follow your recomendation.

The only problem for me is that Im from SouthAmerica, there is almost zero places where I can try headphones. I wish, for this matter, I would live in EU or USA, so I could have the stores you have. Im going to SF in two weeks... Im trying to find some place to test headphones.

 

[Deleted member 9286]

Dan Clark Audio is an interesting one. I haven’t heard their latest generation of products but personally think their original Aeon Closed were the most realistic headphone I’ve listened to or owned. They measured pretty well too. So I do think they make good products and they are much cheaper than many brands that sell lesser products.

With regards to the cable comments on their website, I think the problem lies in Headfi. They came up there and are very active in that community. Threads for their products are packed with people talking about cables, asking about upgrade cables, raving about the difference cables make. Maybe they just thought if everyone else is going to profit from this sort of stuff, why shouldn’t we too.

When I’ve spoken to Dan Clark he’s always been pretty honest and helpful so this does seem a bit odd.

 

[Dan]

Dan Clark Audio is an interesting one. I haven’t heard their latest generation of products but personally think their original Aeon Closed were the most realistic headphone I’ve listened to or owned. They measured pretty well too. So I do think they make good products and they are much cheaper than many brands that sell lesser products.

With regards to the cable comments on their website, I think the problem lies in Headfi. They came up there and are very active in that community. Threads for their products are packed with people talking about cables, asking about upgrade cables, raving about the difference cables make. Maybe they just thought if everyone else is going to profit from this sort of stuff, why shouldn’t we too.

When I’ve spoken to Dan Clark he’s always been pretty honest and helpful so this does seem a bit odd.

No doubt the various headphone fanatic forums have pushed them to do this. They have nothing to lose and tons to gain pandering to those maniacs.

 

[Fluffy]

The only problem for me is that Im from SouthAmerica, there is almost zero places where I can try headphones. I wish, for this matter, I would live in EU or USA, so I could have the stores you have. Im going to SF in two weeks... Im trying to find some place to test headphones.

I'm pretty sure San Francisco (if that's what you meant by SF) has audiophile stores, they are not uncommon in large cities. I suggest you make some time in your schedule to visit one or two, if it's important to you. I'm from Israel, and we don't have a lot of stores here either. I bought mine after a visit to a big store in London when I was there last summer, during a trip with family. You may also have audio shows like Canjam in your area.

If you're lucky, you'll only be buying a 1000$+ headphone once after doing your physical research. Ordering blindly online is a sort of gamble, you may end up with something you don't like and have to resell it and buy something else, costing you more money. Some people enjoy the pursuit and don't mind going over many headphones until they find their favorite. I prefer to first find the one and then buy it. It takes more physical research, but I think in the end it's cheaper.

So I do think they make good products and they are much cheaper than many brands that sell lesser products.

Their stuff may be good, but still their cheapest model is 900$ brand new. Personally I never liked the sound of any of their headphones, but I can't say they are not well designed.
I agree about forums like Headfi promoting BS and incentivizing brands to get on board.

 

[AudioEnthusiast]

It is our responsibility as consumers to filter out the marketing talk and judge the products for what they really are.

Agree, we shouldn’t let the BS bias us for or against the product.

 

[Blujackaal]

@velasfloyd
Honestly, I don't think headphones should cost so much. This is an area where diminishing returns take over pretty fast. The difference between 500$ and 1000$ phones of the same brand can be tiny, and even tinier between the 1000$ and the 2000$ models. They sell them at those prices because there are people who will buy them.

Also, I suspect most companies first make their flagship headphone, and then fuck it up in all sort of ways to create their lower tier offers. Then they can put a ridiculous price tag over their flagship, knowing that few people would buy it, but that justifies the still pretty high prices on the lower models – that probably take as much effort to manufacture as the higher-tier ones, but as I said are just more "fucked up" to make the lower cost reasonable.

Reminds me of when on a another site, a user got offended i highly doubt a majority of TOTL IEM's are a jump from something like a ER4XR or other <£500 headphones.

 

[majingotan]

Reminds me of when on a another site, a user got offended i highly doubt a majority of TOTL IEM's are a jump from something like a ER4XR or other <£500 headphones.

I've demoed several of those IEMs (that cost up to 3.5K USD) and my 300 USD Yamaha HS7 when listened on-axis 2 feet away is still subjectively superior to those IEMs in sound quality to my subjective tastes

 

[Blujackaal]

I've demoed several of those IEMs (that cost up to 3.5K USD) and my 300 USD Yamaha HS7 when listened on-axis 2 feet away is still subjectively superior to those IEMs in sound quality to my subjective tastes

Same with the Etymotic's with EQ/DSP, Every £400 Multi driver/hybrid/1DD. I've tried It's laughably coloured or has some issues like peaks/dips, i find it cute they act as if there only gear you aim for. With no care with that really don't sound good at all in a objective sense or even in subjective case, Since a lot seems have idea that big bloated bass is good. Which is why i liked the ER3SE or ER4SR more than other headphones, 4db bass is my sweet spot if i wanted more low end.

I really wish i had a room for a 2.1 ch set up since, I'm thinking on going IEM/Studio speakers instead.