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Resolving Measurement Issues with SONCOZ SGD1 DAC

respice finem

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The general problem of "alternative facts" is, no one can prove his innocence as quickly as other people can "prove" his "guilt".
One remedy is "proof or it didn't happen", but even this is limited.
As the Romans said already, "aliquid semper haeret"...
That's where an important thing comes into play: trust.
Trustworthiness is IMHO the difference between Amir and the "army" of influencers.

Sidenote: One thing that seems the "takeaway" of this case for me is, as firmware can improve or spoil a unit, results would be comparable only using the same version, which is not optimistic for comparability.
 

Tks

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Here we go again with pure retardation.

Let's assume the guy hurling the accusation made a correct claim about Amir receiving a sample that measured better. On what planet would someone take this to be a case of fake measurements? Do these people read reviews of other reviewers and then say to some big reviewers: "you're cooking the results". Lol of course not. If anything, better measurements form Amir than retail samples demonstrate something about the company (either sending golden samples, or inept at QC). Imagine if every reviewer of all sorts of other products (like imagine someone reviewing TV's had to contend with a moronic user-base that questions the integrity of the reviewer because full grey uniformity, or color calibration out of the factory varies from sample to sample... That means said reviewer would always have to retest the product multiple times every time there is an inconsistent review elsewhere. Now imagine if one applied this to subjective tests LOL. All reviewers would have to be retesting music purchases, or devices.

The thing is, Amir (for whatever reason) likes to waste his time with these buffoons and has to explain here the reviews where a potential conflict of interest exists are such reviews where he points that out (thus the poster demonstrates he doesn't actually read most reviews, as those sorts of disclosures happen periodically). The guy is armchair mouthing off about some standard of professionalism (I see no such standard written in any books nor espoused by anyone with explicit detail), this is the first red flag one should take about engaging with these sorts of lunatics. That sort of behavior is what I would expect out of some accredited laboratory, or private business that has to conform with legal requirements concerning operations within a jurisdiction that has laws local governmental agencies police.

Does that moron not understand Amir is just some guy who's been in the industry a while, and purchased a measurement device and posts his findings for people to see? He's not a certification center, or a test lab lol.. Like if Amir was the architect of the AP, and he also ran the testing center AP hypothetically had and guaranteed product standards - then I'd somewhat see the validity in the complain that moron has.

But here's the rich part. You know all those devices that are sent for safety certifications to various governmental agencies before they can be sold under certain conditions and such? Yeah, that test happens only once. There's NOTHING that stops companies (beyond fear of getting caught, or simply a desire not to be scum bags) from sending out golden samples for certification, or sending out a device that is eventually changed silently after a few months (due to cost cutting and populating PCB's with different parts due to some parts perhaps being discontinued). So if anyone has a reddit account, please tell that moron his complaints would be far better served at mouthing off about those agencies and their "professional standards". Oh wait, that's right - even a buffoon of his stature could see they would NEVER pay any mind to some random clown. Even if these companies (labs, certification centers, and the company submitting the products) all had a gentlemen's agreement on not rocking the boat and keeping up with these sorts of deceptive practices, they would never bother to change unless that sort of guy on reddit amassed a hoard of attention to the issue, and even then it would get mostly ignored.

The funniest part of the post was the beginning, the same old, tired complaint about headphone testing challenges, and since Amir hasn't solved such issues, that's Amir's unprofessionalism. :facepalm:

Am I living in Looney Tunes land or something??? Helloooo? Someone tell this guy to send those brand spanking new pads (and send your old worn pads for good measure because next thing you know, some decedent/friend of his that will bitch about the inverse and say later on: "oh well he tests only brand new headphones, what about burning in the drivers first, and then seeing what effect that has on new pads, and also what effect that has with worn pads, but also don't forget to test worn pads with pre-burned in drivers as well").

It's the same crap I used to see here more often in the past here (about burning in speakers, or wires). Why would anyone waste breath with these people who's ideas have been buried and (should be ignored) before they were even born? Talking with these people never feels like a debate or discussion, it feels like some forced one-way exercise in education.
 

Ben1987

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Right but if that was the case, why was the firmware on my unit out of date? I know it was successfully connecting to my wireless, but it apparently wasn't getting firmware updates or you wouldn't have had to beat your head for a day trying to get the firmware updated in the first place.

Each time SGD1 is powered on, WiFi will be turned on to detect and update the firmware. If there is any update, it will be upgraded. If there is no new firmware, WiFi will be turned off in a minute. The silent upgrade currently in use.

When SGD1 is powered on again, WiFi will be turned on for about one minute to check whether it is upgraded or not. It may take longer time to check overseas. I will communicate with my software engineer whether to extend the time when WiFi is turned on to ensure the stability of the upgrade.
In addition, I made a simple mobile phone hotspot upgrade video for your reference.
 

aj625

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Sbaf and other subjectivist forums and websites are now worried about their very existence because slowly the wave is turning towards objective approach. They now fear to go to extreme heights eulogizing the mediocre boutique products as they will be exposed some day by asr. You no longer see extremely glowing reviews likes of schiit yggy few years back. No amount of subjectivism can change the objective measurements. Sadly some new channels and reviewers(goldensound) still sticking to subjectivism despite knowing and acknowledging poor measurements of a product and brazenly calling those poor faulty products as fun sounding.
 

Dro

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IMD hump does not necessarily require a hardware fix? Interesting.
 

Tks

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Sbaf and other subjectivist forums and websites are now worried about their very existence because slowly the wave is turning towards objective approach. They now fear to go to extreme heights eulogizing the mediocre boutique products as they will be exposed some day by asr. You no longer see extremely glowing reviews likes of schiit yggy few years back. No amount of subjectivism can change the objective measurements. Sadly some new channels and reviewers(goldensound) still sticking to subjectivism despite knowing and acknowledging poor measurements of a product and brazenly calling those poor faulty products as fun sounding.

Thankfully reddit (headphone sub for example) is similar to ASR, where lots of heavily subjectivst stuff isn't tolerated by the majority. Start waxing people with ghost writer finese, get laughed at pretty quickly.
 

holbob

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I'm just looking at that Reddit thread now. Yikes.

Haven't seen that thread, but I'm read some stuff on a couple of other forums. Real vitriolic stuff, one particular person seems to have a major problem with libellous stuff spoken of freely. That, and along with the fake twitter troll, makes me wonder if Amir has considered anything legal.
 

NeoZs99

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I always though the only shitholes of personal audio forums were shill fi and superduperbestpals.. well you learn as you grow
 

Mulder

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You can just as easily turn the whole thing around. How do we who read the posts in that other forum know that the senders do not have commercial or other interests that they pursue in secret? HiFi forums are probably no more free from trolls and deliberate misinformation than any other forum. In my opinion, the HiFi industry is often deeply unserious. I have noticed in other forums, where well-known HiFi retailers or industry professionals participate, that just objective measurement data and other more scientifically colored methods are perceived as extremely provocative. To question at all the evaluation of a pair of expensive cables, for example, which is performed on a Friday night sipping on a glass of whiskey, is considered pure blasphemy in some circles.
 
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bigjacko

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IMD hump need hardware fix.
The software corrects the 2nd and 3rd harmonics of the Ess DAC chip.
Do you mean you use software to add negative distortion to counter the harmonic distortion? That is a cool way to do it but I can see some short comings. How do you know how much to compensate, do you measure a bunch and take average?
 

solderdude

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goldenone still has much to learn about operating his AP555x and understanding/comparing measurements.
He is not the only one though that did not understand what exactly he was measuring and seems he only posted this to discredit Amir, just like goldenone seems to have done.

Ah well... every one makes mistakes.
One just shouldn't use those mistakes to discredit someone else while accusing the same person for borking measurements on purpose.

(Edited... tagged goldenears by accident as I searched for 'Golden' and Goldenears came up while looking for goldensound/goldenone.)
 
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aj625

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@goldenears still has much to learn about operating his AP555x and understanding/comparing measurements.
He is not the only one though that did not understand what exactly he was measuring and seems he only posted this to discredit Amir, just like @goldenears seems to have done.

Ah well... every one makes mistakes.
One just shouldn't use those mistakes to discredit someone else while accusing the same person for borking measurements on purpose.
Oh, was he Cameron oatley ?
 

solderdude

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yes GoldenSound = goldenone here.
A 24 y.o. economics graduate with an interest in audio.

(Edited)
 
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nyxnyxnyx

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Sbaf and other subjectivist forums and websites are now worried about their very existence because slowly the wave is turning towards objective approach. They now fear to go to extreme heights eulogizing the mediocre boutique products as they will be exposed some day by asr. You no longer see extremely glowing reviews likes of schiit yggy few years back. No amount of subjectivism can change the objective measurements. Sadly some new channels and reviewers(goldensound) still sticking to subjectivism despite knowing and acknowledging poor measurements of a product and brazenly calling those poor faulty products as fun sounding.

I'd argue that the most important factor of any reviewers in any fields is their honesty. Even if said subjective opinions are factually incorrect, as long as it's a real and honest opinion from that person then it's still something the viewers can appreciate. That's why reviewers like Amir and Crinacle are still some of the most trusted and most respected reviewers out there.

Also, if a person is dedicated to learn more about objective measurements and how to read them, it'll take like a week at best. From that point onward that person can already understand all the objective standards when he looks at the measurement without needing an interpretation from the reviewer. The subjectism can be interesting if some viewers are interested to know what the reviewer subjectively thinks about it. It might not be factually correct but we already have the factually correct data in the measurements, so I don't see any losses here - as long as said subjectivsm is honest and not paid opinions.
 

Ben1987

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Do you mean you use software to add negative distortion to counter the harmonic distortion?
The principle here is that using the harmonic compensation function of Ess DAC, only the second and third harmonics can be compensated. As for which set of data is the best, many experiments are needed. The best number depends on many factors, such as circuit structure, PCB layout, filter capacitance and resistance. These parameters are usually retested and corrected with each batch of production. Even the SMT process is closely related.

How do you know how much to compensate, do you measure
You're right. Averaging multiple tests is a reliable way.
 

abdo123

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yes GoldenSound = @goldenears here.
A 24 y.o. economics graduate with an interest in audio.

Are you sure about that?

Also I don't think it's fair to say that GoldenSound is attacking Amir just because he used different FFT window parameters.

Edit: GoldenSound did not measure the Soncoz DAC. it's not on his website. so basically almost every information you have shared in your comments is incorrect.


Edit2: Oh i just noticed the link with the measurements.
 
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