Requesting guidance on building my first 2.2 setup which will grow into a 5.2 setup

[4FvqL^JQ5ZBE*]

Hello all,

Context: I currently have just received my F226Be's ($4,000 new sale for both) and 2 x SVS SB-2000's ($985.00 new sale for both). I went with the F226Be's over the F228Be's due to the fact that reviews said it would be worth it to get a sub with the cost savings. I then saw it is recommended to get 2 subs instead 1 for bass balance. I purchased the SVS Subs due to black Friday deal but now realize that my initial plan to use the unbalanced RCA outs of a Topping D90 were wrong and I may need to return the SVS SB-2000 to find a sub with balanced XLR inputs and balanced XLR outputs to configure the setup as mentioned below. Would you return the SVS SB-2000 subs and purchase subs with balanced XLR input/ouputs?

DACs and 2.2 setup questions and thoughts: Through research I have decided that the 2.2 setup should be DAC -> (balanced XLRs) -> Powered Sub to utilize passive crossover ->(balanced XLRs) AMP -> F226Be's. Essentially inputting directly into a sub with balanced XLRs and outputting out of the sub with balanced XLRs to the amp.

Would you change anything on this theoretically configuration?

Would you add room correction due to the 2 subs? I was originally looking at the MiniDSP SHD but was told to avoid it do the extra conversion of process element it adds.

I was convinced on the Topping D90 ($594.99 new sale) or RME ADI-2 DAC FS ($850 used) but thinking about returning it for something like the SMSL SU-9 ($439.99) or SMSL M500 ($399.99) to save some $ as I do not see any sacrifices by switching to them. Are there any negatives I am missing for my desired 2.2 setup on choosing an SMSL SU-9 or SMSL M500 over a Topping D90/ADI-2 DAC?

I fully understand this is a wide variety of questions and having trouble to neatly organize it so that those who want to help can easily comprehend to provide it.

 

[Vasr]

For anything more than 2 speakers, setting up the speaker phase/delay, balance, crossovers, etc., are a pain especially if spread over multiple units in the configuration you are looking at.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to find a good processing unit that can do the processing without the DAC so you can use the DAC you like. There are miniDSP units to do this and the ones that do purely digital in and digital out are better and easier to find one in a 2x4 configuration.

miniDSP SHD is basically a vertically integrated stack of the above and comes with Dirac that will have more impact on your overall sound than anything else in this chain. The only issue is if the price is a barrier. Otherwise, I would just get the SHD and be done with it. It will be far more easier to use daily.

If you want to extend this to a 5.2, then none of the above solutions will lend itself easily to simple extension. You are much better off having a separate 5.2 pre/pro/avr.

If the miniDSP SHD had a HT bypass, it would have been so much mroe useful for this, but that is miniDSP, they always stop short of one thing that would increase its use immensely.

Or you can plan for it now and get a multi-channel pre-pro with processing and DAC and a good room correction. You won't gain much in practice with having a separate 2-ch DAC.

 

[4FvqL^JQ5ZBE*]

For anything more than 2 speakers, setting up the speaker phase/delay, balance, crossovers, etc., are a pain especially if spread over multiple units in the configuration you are looking at.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to find a good processing unit that can do the processing without the DAC so you can use the DAC you like. There are miniDSP units to do this and the ones that do purely digital in and digital out are better and easier to find one in a 2x4 configuration.

miniDSP SHD is basically a vertically integrated stack of the above and comes with Dirac that will have more impact on your overall sound than anything else in this chain. The only issue is if the price is a barrier. Otherwise, I would just get the SHD and be done with it. It will be far more easier to use daily.

Vasr,

Definitely see the convenience factor in the MiniDSP SHD. Unfortunately, I was made aware that ADDA conversion in the unit would be a significant weak point in a high end chain. (I am a noob and therefore just parroting advice I have read) I would rather not convert the signal from analog to digital and from digital to analog back if possible. It seems to be there is a consensus that digital EQ is a "game changer" from one camp and that another camp would rather to it "right" (e.g. room treatment with REW) or just leave it as is.

 

[waynel]

Vasr,

Definitely see the convenience factor in the MiniDSP SHD. Unfortunately, I was made aware that ADDA conversion in the unit would be a significant weak point in a high end chain. (I am a noob and therefore just parroting advice I have read) I would rather not convert the signal from analog to digital and from digital to analog back if possible. It seems to be there is a consensus that digital EQ is a "game changer" from one camp and that another camp would rather to it "right" (e.g. room treatment with REW) or just leave it as is.

RCA inputs and time delay are not your main problem. The main problem is lack of a high pass filter before your amp to your main speakers and lack of DSP room correction.

Why not get a Denon 3700H and use that for everything?

Alternatively for 2.2 only you could do the following

Digital source with volume control -> MiniDSP nanodigi-> two dacs, one for amp one for subs (see my signature for my implementation)

 

[Vasr]

Vasr,

Definitely see the convenience factor in the MiniDSP SHD. Unfortunately, I was made aware that ADDA conversion in the unit would be a significant weak point in a high end chain. (I am a noob and therefore just parroting advice I have read) I would rather not convert the signal from analog to digital and from digital to analog back if possible. It seems to be there is a consensus that digital EQ is a "game changer" from one camp and that another camp would rather to it "right" (e.g. room treatment with REW) or just leave it as is.

There is no AD conversion in the SHD if you are feeding digital input, just like the way you feed the DACs through USB or optical. It outputs analog for each speaker.

 

[waynel]

Vasr,

Definitely see the convenience factor in the MiniDSP SHD. Unfortunately, I was made aware that ADDA conversion in the unit would be a significant weak point in a high end chain.

What extra conversion? are you starting with an analog signal?

 

[Cahudson42]

Why not get a Denon 3700H and use that for everything?

+1
You have spent, as recommended, for great speakers. To 'improve' from there, why not start with a good Denon AVR? Particularly when you are looking at 5.2 in the future. Learn, experience on the 3700H. When going 5.2 you can then decide if separate amps for L and R are worth it, etc.

 

[4FvqL^JQ5ZBE*]

RCA inputs and time delay are not your main problem. The main problem is lack of a high pass filter before your amp to your main speakers and lack of DSP room correction.

Why not get a Denon 3700H and use that for everything?

Alternatively for 2.2 only you could do the following

Digital source with volume control -> MiniDSP nanodigi-> two dacs, one for amp one for subs (see my signature for my implementation)

There is no AD conversion in the SHD if you are feeding digital input, just like the way you feed the DACs through USB or optical. It outputs analog for each speaker.

+1
You have spent, as recommended, for great speakers. To 'improve' from there, why not start with a good Denon AVR? Particularly when you are looking at 5.2 in the future. Learn, experience on the 3700H. When going 5.2 you can then decide if separate amps for L and R are worth it, etc.

RCA inputs and time delay are not your main problem. The main problem is lack of a high pass filter before your amp to your main speakers and lack of DSP room correction.

Why not get a Denon 3700H and use that for everything?

Alternatively for 2.2 only you could do the following

Digital source with volume control -> MiniDSP nanodigi-> two dacs, one for amp one for subs (see my signature for my implementation)

All,

I was mistaken about the extra conversion on the MiniDSP SHD. I will only be using USB or Optical inputs for now so that doesn't apply. Thank you for correcting me. I am at that stage where I am trying to understand this but basically still just parroting what I read.

I had looked at the Denon 3700/4700 extensively before ruling it out. The main reason I am ruling it out as I am looking at the NC500 and NC1200 as amp options for the speakers and I saw that the Denon 3700/4700 in pre-out may be a limiting factor on the amp due to the voltage outputs from Amir's review. This really bummed me out but my speakers are rated up to 200WRMS continious and even the 4700h only does 125WRMS peak. Theorhetically, this seems that the Denon by itself would severely hamper the dynamics of my speakers.

 

[TimW]

As others have said, you should just get a Denon AVR.

You're worrying too much about SINAD and power numbers.

There's no real way to grow to 5.2 with an SHD or your Topping D90.

 

[waynel]

All,

I was mistaken about the extra conversion on the MiniDSP SHD. I will only be using USB or Optical inputs for now so that doesn't apply. Thank you for correcting me. I am at that stage where I am trying to understand this but basically still just parroting what I read.

I had looked at the Denon 3700/4700 extensively before ruling it out. The main reason I am ruling it out as I am looking at the NC500 and NC1200 as amp options for the speakers and I saw that the Denon 3700/4700 in pre-out may be a limiting factor on the amp due to the voltage outputs from Amir's review. This really bummed me out but my speakers are rated up to 200WRMS continious and even the 4700h only does 125WRMS peak. Theorhetically, this seems that the Denon by itself would severely hamper the dynamics of my speakers.

If you want to do 5.1 or more I don't believe there is a better option than the Denon 3700H in the price range. You could always try it and then add an external amp or even bypass it totally (like I do ) for music. my guess is that you'll find it sufficiently powerful for your speakers.

I also proposed a nanoDigi based solution if 2.2 is enough.

 

[Cahudson42]

Many ways to 'skin a cat' with the 3700H. including, first, bi-amping your L and R Revels. And should you find the AVR unable to drive future nc500/nc1200 (which may be obsolete by then anyway), you could always add to the chain a $100 HP amp like the L30, Heresy, Atom etc. Their SINADs are so far above the rest of the chain should be no problem at all.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Anthem AVR. Add speakers later.

 

[4FvqL^JQ5ZBE*]

Many ways to 'skin a cat' with the 3700H. including, first, bi-amping your L and R Revels. And should you find the AVR unable to drive future nc500/nc1200 (which may be obsolete by then anyway), you could always add to the chain a $100 HP amp like the L30, Heresy, Atom etc. Their SINADs are so far above the rest of the chain should be no problem at all.

I did research into bi-amping but I remember reading that it was sort of gimmicky? Like the consensus I gathered from this forum was that bi-amp was sort of a marketing gimmick that then became the expectation on high end speakers. Is there really value in bi-amping?

I did some listening tests today and have determined that a Purifi 400 module will be adequate for my listening level so I am now wondering if the Denon AVR is back in play. I see in the tests the voltage drop off is 1.4V so I will need to see if the Purifi theoretically stays under that. This would simplify things so much, I hope it makes sense.

 

[4FvqL^JQ5ZBE*]

Anthem AVR. Add speakers later.

First Anthem recommendation I have seen on here in a while. Everyone seems obsessed with Denon since Amir's messages. I will look into them further.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

First Anthem recommendation I have seen on here in a while. Everyone seems obsessed with Denon since Amir's messages. I will look into them further.

The room correction alone is worth the price. I purchased 520 in spite of Amir's review. I have messed with the other corrections (other than Dirac) forever. Anthem just worked. Subwoofer integration is wonderful. You can call Anthem for advice. I posted a comment on this site and Anthem reached out. Customer service is worth the reasonable price premium.