Report about the failure of the OceanGate Titan published

[Mart68]

Im certain they knew the "ride" was extremely risky ..

I doubt that very much. Especially the man who took his young son along. Who would expose their child to something they thought was extremely risky?

IMO you'd need to have rocks in your head to volunteer to be bolted inside that thing and go 2 miles deep.

 

[Paul7777x]

Hi

The story of human advancement is one of taking risks , sometimes enormous. Oversized egos , unreasonable demands and expectations seem to be at the forefront of Human Advances..
Think about it for a second ( or several ) .. You have people that , this very minute, are eager, perhaps mentally , ready to go to Mars ... knowing very well what the challenges , no, the dangers are ... Heck ! we had a few people, now celebrated as heroes , that were willing to strap themselves to a bomb (which is what those rocket virtually are), to go to "space" ..

In this endeavor, the one we're discussing about, mistakes were made and some people paid with their lives, Im certain they knew the "ride" was extremely risky .. That didn't stop them , nor would that stop, other people in similar, perhaps riskier endeavors.

May those who lost their lives, RIP. May those who knowingly exposed them to grave danger pay the price.

...

Exploration (risk taking) shall continue ..


Peace and be safe you all

… and all of that can, and will, be achieved with care being taken to minimise the risk by using serious engineering and simple good practice.

There are and will be immense dangers. But they will not be compounded and multiplied by wishful thinking and ego instead of engineering.

And it will not be attempted in a ship made from plasticine and closed eyes.

The guy here was an egotistical bellend. That’s all.

 

[Paul7777x]

I doubt that very much. Especially the man who took his young son along. Who would expose their child to something they thought was extremely risky?

IMO you'd need to have rocks in your head to volunteer to be bolted inside that thing and go 2 miles deep.

I tend to agree. Except that surely some equivalent of due diligence was necessary in such an endeavour.

It would not have taken much research to show that Stockton Rush was a dangerous chancer, and that his vessel was not considered fit for purpose by anyone other than him.

 

[Mart68]

I tend to agree. Except that surely some equivalent of due diligence was necessary in such an endeavour.

It would not have taken much research to show that Stockton Rush was a dangerous chancer, and that his vessel was not considered fit for purpose by anyone other than him.

You'd think but I suspect they regarded it as no riskier than a helicopter sight-seeing flight or maybe, at worst, a hot air balloon ride.

Some people are extraordinarily trusting, even of salesmen. We see this in hi-fi too. Dealers can get a whole 'Stockholm Syndrome' thing going with some customers.

 

[1066]

Richard Feynman famously wrote:

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled."

 

[Owis]

The sounds they heard of the carbon fibre hull cracking and popping as layers began to separate under extreme pressure before implosion. Like a horror movie.

Spoiler

Fark me

 

[Ricardus]

For one thing, such extreme pressure cycling (0 → 335 bar → 0) inevitably causes delamination at the weakest point—and such a weak point always exists—which then spreads during the next cycle of loading.
Added to this is the negative coefficient of thermal expansion of carbon fiber. At depth, the water temperature is around 0°C; this causes the carbon fibers to lengthen and thin, while the epoxy resin contracts. This, too, actively contributes to delamination.
Given these conditions, I find it remarkable that the accident did not occur until after 13 dives to that depth.

Yup. I would happily go underwater in a US military submarine, but would NEVER have even stepped foot into that OceanGate abomination. Just the way they bolted you in from the outside would have given me massive anxiety.

 

[Ricardus]

Hmm... compressive strength is still exceptional compared to aluminum or steel, provided the composite matrix is properly designed.


JSmith

I'll take titanium or some other proper alloy 100 out of 100 times.

 

[antcollinet]

Hi

The story of human advancement is one of taking risks , sometimes enormous. Oversized egos , unreasonable demands and expectations seem to be at the forefront of Human Advances..
Think about it for a second ( or several ) .. You have people that , this very minute, are eager, perhaps mentally , ready to go to Mars ... knowing very well what the challenges , no, the dangers are ... Heck ! we had a few people, now celebrated as heroes , that were willing to strap themselves to a bomb (which is what those rocket virtually are), to go to "space" ..

In this endeavor, the one we're discussing about, mistakes were made and some people paid with their lives, Im certain they knew the "ride" was extremely risky .. That didn't stop them , nor would that stop, other people in similar, perhaps riskier endeavors.

May those who lost their lives, RIP. May those who knowingly exposed them to grave danger pay the price.

...

Exploration (risk taking) shall continue ..


Peace and be safe you all

Taking risks != ignoring risks and thereby doing nothing to mitigate them.

 

[FrantzM]

I doubt that very much. Especially the man who took his young son along. Who would expose their child to something they thought was extremely risky?

IMO you'd need to have rocks in your head to volunteer to be bolted inside that thing and go 2 miles deep.

I am not trying to justify the negligence of those people, simply pointing out that pioneers take risks and that throughout history, and they do it knowingly.
e.g The people who participated in the space programs did take immense risks , it required a bizarre mixture of well educated people with a sense of utter bravery (or foolishness) to become an astronaut , one of the few that would ride a space rocket a bomb made of tons not kg or highly explosive material.. which operates basically on an (hopefully) controlled series of explosions/combustion. They knew the dangers and we (those now enjoying the fruits) didn't know enough to mitigate much of anything .. We pondered, hypothesized and somewhere, had to take the chance.. We learned by doing and sometimes, losing lives, and everyone involved, were or at the very least should have been, conscious of that. I am certain that multiples waivers had to be signed. Please take a a few minutes to realize the utter gals it takes to decide to go to the moon and now to Mars !!! Or more platonically, to ride a seaship and go discover a place at the other side of the earth, no GPS, no Vitamin C and no antibiotics... and the greed too... And yes ,the arrogance to claim it your own, once you get "there".

I am saying that when people are about to explore the unknown they do not wait for regulations or oversight .. In this very case, in hindsight, they were negligent, criminally so and arrogant. Greed is written all over it , then again greed also brings up exploration. Taking risks, taking chances and sometimes succeeding in the face of what heretofore were considered impossibilities.

Peace and out to "observe mode".

 

[Mart68]

I am not trying to justify the negligence of those people, simply pointing out that pioneers take risks and that throughout history, and they do it knowingly.
e.g The people who participated in the space programs did take immense risks ,

No I didn't think you were. The contract they signed before embarking does state clearly several times that it's an experimental device and that there's a danger of death. But I suspect the chats they had with the owner/salesman allayed that and of course they are off the record.

Consequently, I suspect they regarded the warnings in the contract as just the usual 'boilerplate.'

The difference between Oceangate and NASA is that NASA mitigated risk wherever it was flagged and where it was possible to do so, whereas Oceangate did nothing.