Replacement for Van den Hul MC One Special?

[LTig]

It's the 3rd time now that one channel failed on my beloved Van den Hul MC One Special I bought used in 1998. The first failure in 2003 was caused by the opamp in the first stage of my DIY preamp which failed and fed DC through the coil, leading to a short. The 2nd time (in 2016) this was not the case (I had added a coupling cap), but in both cases I sent it to Van den Hul and they replaced the coil. Now it's an open connection, so it could be a broken wire. I can send the cartridge to Van den Hul to get it fixed and the rubbers replaced but it will set me back at least € 625 (that's what I paid in 2016).

Is there another low output (~0.5mV) MC cartridge with similar compliance (must match the old Linn Ekos arm) and performance and a line contact stylus which I might use as a replacement? Thinking about an Audio-Technica AT-OC9XML, which is available here for € 550. Any idea how it will sound compared to the MC One Special? Or should have mine repaired?

Edit: no discussion about switching to digital please, I do own ~1k CDs but also 1.3k records I don't want to rebuy in digital.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Time to retire the VdHul ,in any case
You must have worn out the stylus many times by now an degraded your records enoug

 

[LTig]

Time to retire the VdHul ,in any case
You must have worn out the stylus many times by now an degraded your records enoug

I use it quite seldom, the stylus was replaced in 2003 and was still in good order in 2016 (I think it is good for 5000 hours). But I agree, replacing also the stylus might add another € 500 to the bill.

 

[Balle Clorin]

5000 hours, !! the longest lasting cartridges are the MicroRiddge with 1000 hours. Others may only last 500hrs, and a cartridge goes off spec before those numbers . . Never seen anything good for 5000hours…It may still make sound but the sound will not be the same.,

 

[LTig]

5000 hours, !! the longest lasting cartridges are the MicroRiddge with 1000 hours. Others may only last 500hrs, and a cartridge goes off spec before those numbers . . Never seen anything good for 5000hours…It may still make sound but the sound will not be the same.,

According to the FAQ by Van den Hul the life time of the VDH stylus is 3000 hours (16 Q on page 16), and 1000 hours for regular styli.

But I think I should follow your advice and get a new one.

 

[spiral scratch]

I can't comment directly on the sound, but the AT33PTG/33 is a popular choice for not much more money and considerably more refinement. The tapered cantilever should improve response which it looks like it does. It also matches your desired gain.

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-ca/catalog/product_compare/index/uenc/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYXVkaW8tdGVjaG5pY2EuY29tL2VuLWNhL2N1c3RvbWVyL3NlY3Rpb24vbG9hZC8_c2VjdGlvbnM9Y29tcGFyZS1wcm9kdWN0cyUyQ21lc3NhZ2VzJTJDYXBwdHJpYW5fZmFjZWJvb2tfcGl4ZWxfbWF0Y2hpbmdfc2VjdGlvbiZmb3JjZV9uZXdfc2VjdGlvbl90aW1lc3RhbXA9ZmFsc2UmXz0xNjc5MzE3NjczMDMy/

 

[LTig]

According to the FAQ by Van den Hul the life time of the VDH stylus is 3000 hours (16 Q on page 16), and 1000 hours for regular styli.

According to the support of Audio Technica (mail of today) the life time of AT styli is:

• conical: 300 - 500 hours
• elliptical: 300 hours
• Microlinear: 1000 hours
• Shibata and Special-Line-Contact: 800 hours

 

[LTig]

I can't comment directly on the sound, but the AT33PTG/33 is a popular choice for not much more money and considerably more refinement. The tapered cantilever should improve response which it looks like it does. It also matches your desired gain.

Thanks for the info, I found it.

Channel separation is better compared to the OC9XML (30 dB vs 27 dB) as is frequency range, but output is lower (0.3 mV vs 0.4 mV, the MC One Special is 0.57 mV) but should not be a problem as my phono stage is very silent. Cheapest price here is € 80 higher as the OC9 has a [Edit: bigger] rebate [Edit: as while] the AT33 does not (and is available in June earliest).

 

[AaronJ]

According to the support of Audio Technica (mail of today) the life time of AT styli is:

• conical: 300 - 500 hours
• elliptical: 300 hours
• Microlinear: 1000 hours
• Shibata and Special-Line-Contact: 800 hours

I do not believe published life cycles so low. Reminds me of auto shops still putting a sticker on your window reminding you to come back for another oil change after 3000 miles or 3 months.

 

[levimax]

+1 AT33PTG/33 I am quite happy with mine and it measures well. You might want to read through a couple threads where a script developed by @JP is used to measure cart response and distortion and more. It looks like the old Shure VM carts measure "the best" so far but of course nothing is absolute when it comes to TT's

Phono Cartridge Response Measurement Script

This thread is intended to consolidate the technical discussion and further development of Scott Wurcer's frequency response measurement script to a central area. I'd like to keep this discussion about the tool rather than specific cartridges. Measurement Library thread is here. Usage info is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

MM vs MI vs MC

Woah. That's a great price for the performance. Do you know how the elliptical compares? This is also the perfect test for this thread as it's called MC vs MI vs MM. Hope more people listen to the files. You rarely get these kinds of tests with properly set-up carts. Thanks.

audiosciencereview.com

 

[MAB]

It's the 3rd time now that one channel failed on my beloved Van den Hul MC One Special I bought used in 1998. The first failure in 2003 was caused by the opamp in the first stage of my DIY preamp which failed and fed DC through the coil, leading to a short. The 2nd time (in 2016) this was not the case (I had added a coupling cap), but in both cases I sent it to Van den Hul and they replaced the coil. Now it's an open connection, so it could be a broken wire. I can send the cartridge to Van den Hul to get it fixed and the rubbers replaced but it will set me back at least € 625 (that's what I paid in 2016).

Is there another low output (~0.5mV) MC cartridge with similar compliance (must match the old Linn Ekos arm) and performance and a line contact stylus which I might use as a replacement? Thinking about an Audio-Technica AT-OC9XML, which is available here for € 550. Any idea how it will sound compared to the MC One Special? Or should have mine repaired?

If I understand, your tonearm has effective mass of 11.5 grams:

Linn Ekos High Precision Stereo Tonearm Manual | Vinyl Engine

www.vinylengine.com

This is in the middle. Not like a Grace 707 (low mass) or a Lustre GST-1 (high mass).
Your van den hul cartridge is a high compliance cartridge. I found the specs at Elusive Disc but not at van den hul:
Specifications:
Output: 0.65mV
Stylus Shape: VDH 1
Stylus Radii: 3 x 85 Micron
Frequency Range: 5-50,000 Hz
Tracking Force: 1.35-1.50 Grams
Static Compliance: 28 Micron/mN
Tracking Ability: 70-80 Micron
Channel Unbalance: Less Than 0.5dB
Channel Separation: Greater Than 35/30dB
Stylus Tip Mass: 0.35 Milligram
System Weight: 8.2 Grams
Load Capacitance: Non Critical
Load Impedance: 200 Ohm
Effective Tonearm Mass: 8-12 Grams
MC Resistance: 9 Ohms

If I got things right, your combo has a pretty low system resonance (6.77 Hz).

Cartridge Database Tools - Vinyl Engine

www.vinylengine.com

Many of the Audio Technica discussed here are around 10 micron/mN. This would put the resonance with your arm/cartridge near 11 Hz, which is a pretty good place to be.

Ortofon are higher compliance, the 2M range is typically around 20 micron/mN.

If you want similar compliance to the van den hul, perhaps one of the Ortofon 2M. But it seems a wide range of cartridges will work with your arm, including the Audio Technicas you are considering.

 

[LTig]

If I understand, your tonearm has effective mass of 11.5 grams:

Linn Ekos High Precision Stereo Tonearm Manual | Vinyl Engine

www.vinylengine.com

This is in the middle. Not like a Grace 707 (low mass) or a Lustre GST-1 (high mass).

Yep.

Your van den hul cartridge is a high compliance cartridge. I found the specs at Elusive Disc but not at van den hul:
Specifications:
Output: 0.65mV
Stylus Shape: VDH 1
Stylus Radii: 3 x 85 Micron
Frequency Range: 5-50,000 Hz
Tracking Force: 1.35-1.50 Grams
Static Compliance: 28 Micron/mN
Tracking Ability: 70-80 Micron
Channel Unbalance: Less Than 0.5dB
Channel Separation: Greater Than 35/30dB
Stylus Tip Mass: 0.35 Milligram
System Weight: 8.2 Grams
Load Capacitance: Non Critical
Load Impedance: 200 Ohm
Effective Tonearm Mass: 8-12 Grams
MC Resistance: 9 Ohms

This is correct for the current model, as far as I know. But the data of the cartridge might have change over the years when I google in other fora.

If I got things right, your combo has a pretty low system resonance (6.77 Hz).
View attachment 273465

Cartridge Database Tools - Vinyl Engine

www.vinylengine.com

The compliance of the VdH is static, so according to this calculator one should enter half of the static compliance:

"There is one snag about it. The manufacturers of cartridges do not always state a useful value for C(ompliance). (It should be started at 10 Hz). Figures of C coming from Japan usually are measured at 100 Hz, so they should be multiplied by 1.5-2. Figures of C coming from USA often are static values, so they should be halved. Most figures of C coming from Europe are OK (stated at 10 Hz)"

With 14 micron/mN the resonance is at 9.6 Hz. But anyway I had no problems with tracking so far.

If you want similar compliance to the van den hul, perhaps one of the Ortofon 2M.

The 2M is MM, I need MC.

But it seems a wide range of cartridges will work with your arm, including the Audio Technicas you are considering.

WRT to compliance I'm not sure which of the two ATs suites better, since the specs for the compliance are confusing:

• AT33PTG/II: 40 static, 10 dynamic at 100 Hz - should I use 20 for the calculation? -> 8.1 Hz
• OC9XML: 20 static, 16 dynamic at 100 Hz - should I use 18 for the calculation? -> 8.7 Hz

 

[MAB]

Yep.

This is correct for the current model, as far as I know. But the data of the cartridge might have change over the years when I google in other fora.

The compliance of the VdH is static, so according to this calculator one should enter half of the static compliance:

With 14 micron/mN the resonance is at 9.6 Hz. But anyway I had no problems with tracking so far.


The 2M is MM, I need MC.

WRT to compliance I'm not sure which of the two ATs suites better, since the specs for the compliance are confusing:

• AT33PTG/II: 40 static, 10 dynamic at 100 Hz - should I use 20 for the calculation? -> 8.1 Hz
• OC9XML: 20 static, 16 dynamic at 100 Hz - should I use 18 for the calculation? -> 8.7 Hz

Got it. Thanks for reminding me of the static/dynamic part. I wasn't aware that dynamic is exactly half of static, I thought that static is used for calculating the deflection with an applied tracking force, and the dynamic is for tonearm resonance calculations; and they are not linearly related because the static is large-deflection and dynamic is small-signal. I also thought that the resonance at 10Hz is the right measurement, because your tonearm/cartridge is going to fall in that range. Now I wonder, why is AT spec'ing everything at 100Hz? I have heard that compliance is a function of frequency, but haven't seen definitive proof.

Regarding the 2M... Sorry, I forgot you are looking for MC. Looks like I need to read your post more carefully!

 

[Balle Clorin]

My ATPTG/ii has surprisingly only slightly lower output than my ATOC9ML/ii , but are not as evenly balanced at the top end. YMMV.

The PTG is lighterr and on total it raises the tonearm-cartridge resonance frequency by 0.5Hz on my SME V, measured not calculated

 

[Balle Clorin]

Armresonance with SME V , with extra heavy fastering screws&fulcrum +1gram

 

[SteveC]

Does it have to be a moving coil cartridge? I've owned a few LP-12's over the years and always seemed to enjoy them best with the Linn version of the old Audio Technica 95. I bet the new AT-VM95ML would be a dynamite combination. The AT-VM95EN might also be a good match at a little less money. Plus they are relatively inexpensive and the stylus is replaceable! If you want to stay with MC the Hana range would be a good choice. I own a Hana ML and love it. Sounds best with a SUT in my opinion, but that's in my system.

 

[LTig]

Does it have to be a moving coil cartridge? I've owned a few LP-12's over the years and always seemed to enjoy them best with the Linn version of the old Audio Technica 95. I bet the new AT-VM95ML would be a dynamite combination. The AT-VM95EN might also be a good match at a little less money. Plus they are relatively inexpensive and the stylus is replaceable! If you want to stay with MC the Hana range would be a good choice. I own a Hana ML and love it. Sounds best with a SUT in my opinion, but that's in my system.

Yes, I want MC because I'm too lazy to rebuild my DIY phono stage for MM.

• I started my vinyl journey with a cheap TT and a ceramic pickup. 5g tracking force!
  
• I replaced it by a Thorens TD115 with Stanton 680 and later an Elac ESG 79(x).
• Then came the LP12 Basic with a Linn K9 and Akito arm
• I upgraded the LP12 with a Lingo PS and a Linn Clyde with Ekos arm. (you see I fell victim to the Linn upgraderitys )
• The Clyde had bad tracking ability (it barely made 50 um), so I took the chance to get a used VdH MC One Special.

The MC One Special is the best pickup I've owned so far. Much lower noise from groove and dust, less distortion - I think due to the line contact needle and the low mass of needle and cantilever (without magnet). The problem is that a new one costs € 1800 here and I'm not (yet) ready to reinvest so much money because I listen to vinyl rather seldom now.

However I have thought about getting a Parks Audio Puffin and in this case an AT VM540ML or similar might be a better choice ... My high frequency hearing is rather limited now, so maybe I won't hear a difference anyway, but I really like the low noise of the VdH and am not willing to compromise here..

 

[Bob from Florida]

What about the Hana SL or ML? I have been using a SL for almost 2 years with no complaints. Easily the best cartridge I have used.

 

[Balle Clorin]

What is the difference compared to others,and their names?

 

[Bob from Florida]

What is the difference compared to others,and their names?

Link below followed by chart with specs for most of their low output models. E = Elliptical, S = Shibata, M = Microline.

Products — HANA PHONO CARTRIDGES

www.hanacartridges.com