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Replacement for Hifiman Sundara

Klaner

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Hi,

I am looking for a replacement for my Hifiman Sundaras. I used to use Beyerdynamic DT770 and DT990 for about ten years until I decided to give Hifiman Sundara a try. What I liked about the Sundaras was their wide stage. Bass and Mids were also very extremely precise and present when using sweetchaos' Equalizer Apo profile. However, while my Beyerdynamics lasted a long time and still do their job pretty well, Hifiman's build quality is sad. The support is more interested in replacing the headphones for half the price of new ones instead of selling me affordable replacement parts. Sometimes you have to destroy the headphones to replace something, which for me is not in the customer's interest. So I went back to the Beyerdynamics DT990 and am pretty satisfied although I know there is room for better sound.

I am open to new brands, but want good quality and good spare parts supply. Price-wise, I would like to stay under $400. A good price-performance ratio is important to me. Do you have any suggestions? I prefer open, wired headphones and am leaning towards the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home. However, they are not suggested by amirm.

My stack contains a Topping E50 DAC and a Topping L30 II Amplifier. As they can drive the Sundaras I am pretty sure they can drive anything.

Thanks
Klaner
 

solderdude

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When you like the DT990 you might like the Amiron home as well. More similar than different.

I would suggest you visit a store that sells multiple of the better headphones and have a good listen and feel the comfort differences as well.
Beyerdynamic, AKG, Sennheiser etc. have been known to make good headphones and have a great support in parts (for the better models).
 

cestmoi

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Edition XS.

I own dt990 as well and for me EDXS beats it in every aspect.
 

Metronomy

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I have Austrian Audio Hi-X60 closed-Back, they have a nice stage with a lot of air around, excellent build quality and not at all difficult to fly.
 

solderdude

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Edition XS.

I own dt990 as well and for me EDXS beats it in every aspect.
Ed XS is a hifiman and OP wants something other than hifiman (reliability/build quality).

I have Austrian Audio Hi-X60 closed-Back, they have a nice stage with a lot of air around, excellent build quality and not at all difficult to fly.
Good headphone, nice build quality. No idea about the support over years though.
It is closed, OP is looking for open it seems and not 'neutral' sound in the lows.
 

Metronomy

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Ed XS is a hifiman and OP wants something other than hifiman (reliability/build quality).


Good headphone, nice build quality. No idea about the support over years though.
It is closed, OP is looking for open it seems and not 'neutral' sound in the lows.
Look, beyond the charts, the bass is narrow and deep without intrusion on the medium, this is my impression, I use it with ifi go blue and now with Topping dx5 which instead I find an ampli/dac really too neutral. It's true that it's closed but believe me it seems open as sound.
 

solderdude

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It is only extended when a perfect seal is reached.
seal-hix60.png

Also it does not have a bass boost similar to what the OP is looking for.
I know about the Hi-X60 and measured it.
 

escalibur

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Dunring

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I second the DT1990, just had a pair last week on a Topping E50 and L30ii and it sounded even better than I remember the last pair sounded. Replaceable cables, parts always available. Lots of aftermarket pad options, but I like the A velour pads more than the included B pads.
 

solderdude

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DT1990 is also great (with the treble reduced) but above the budget for OP (when bought new)
 

Metronomy

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It is only extended when a perfect seal is reached.
seal-hix60.png

Also it does not have a bass boost similar to what the OP is looking for.
I know about the Hi-X60 and measured it.
Sorry, I complete my impression that the pads are very adherent to the skin, really well done and so far after 1 year still in excellent condition, even if the replacement costs very little, about 20 dollars, so a great seal for an excellent bass. But the thing I noticed is that you have a lot of air around for a closed headset. To hear beyond the graphs I would say.
 

solderdude

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Yes, good prices. The Hi-X60 I tested was used (someone sent them in for testing) and the pads were still as new. The owner thought they sounded bass-shy and sharp. The bass-shy part may well have been caused by seal issues (hair or glasses).
It doesn't have the typical sound one often associates with closed headphones (cuppy sound).
It isolates pretty well.

In certain aspects it is better than Sundara but does not replace it.
 

enricoclaudio

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I have Sundaras and HD660S. I always start listening with the Sundaras and end with the 660s. Now that the 660S2s are out, the 660s are even cheaper so most definitely worth considering them.
 
OP
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Klaner

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Thank you all for your suggestions! I won't have a look at the Hifiman Edition XS as I was too disappointed with their support. Yet I'll definitely have a deeper look at:
- Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pro with Pads+EQ /Amiron Home
- Austrian Audio Hi-X60 (pricing seems OK, yet a bit curious how it wears for a long time in warm temperatures)
- Sennheiser HD660S (good pricing as they dropped to 299€, Sennheiser offers spare parts and at my place Sennheiser is known as reputable brand)

Unfortunately, there is hardly any store nearby where I can try them out. Nevertheless I'll probably be able to get my hands on some of these. I definitely see your point enricoclaudio, why you switch to more playful/less neutral and probably more comfortable headphones after some time. Let'see what I will be able to listen to, I'll leave you feedback!
 

Sukie

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What about the Beyerdynamic DT900 Pro X?
 

Metronomy

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Thank you all for your suggestions! I won't have a look at the Hifiman Edition XS as I was too disappointed with their support. Yet I'll definitely have a deeper look at:
- Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pro with Pads+EQ /Amiron Home
- Austrian Audio Hi-X60 (pricing seems OK, yet a bit curious how it wears for a long time in warm temperatures)
- Sennheiser HD660S (good pricing as they dropped to 299€, Sennheiser offers spare parts and at my place Sennheiser is known as reputable brand)

Unfortunately, there is hardly any store nearby where I can try them out. Nevertheless I'll probably be able to get my hands on some of these. I definitely see your point enricoclaudio, why you switch to more playful/less neutral and probably more comfortable headphones after some time. Let'see what I will be able to listen to, I'll leave you feedback!
My gym setup with ifi goblu, they don't warm my ears.
 

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Klaner

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As promised, here is my feedback. The shortlist included Beyerdynamics DT1990 Pro, Austrian Audio Hi-X60 and Sennheiser HD660S. After the stunning sound quality of the Sundaras, I was unsure about choosing Beyerdynamics again. Purely subjective, I only know the cheap DT770 and DT990. The Austrians sounded interesting, but I was put off by the closed-back design. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to listen to all three, even though I would have liked to. In the meantime, I managed to get hold of the HD660S for 200€ and thought: What have you got to lose? That's why I ordered them.

The HD660S can't reproduce the details of the Sundaras, there's a bit missing. But they are much more fun to listen to. From a layman's point of view, they are less analytical. The low weight is pleasant, the contact pressure is too high for me. But hopefully that will wear out. The shape of the ear pads is much more comfortable for me than the Sundaras. The stage is a decent bit narrower, but significantly wider than that of the DT990. On the other hand, I can listen loud with them without distortion - the Sundaras sounded unpleasant at some point. The playfulness gives me great pleasure in listening to music with the HD660S and I can wear them much longer than the Sundaras until I've had enough.

The HD660S give me exactly the compromise on the points I wasn't actively looking for, but needed. I am very satisfied and will keep them. Thank you very much for your recommendations!
 
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