Replace amp or get a new center channel

[ElectricSlide]

Alright…short time lurker, first time poster. This may be better suited for the speaker forum, but thought I would post here and see.

Recently moved and setup our home theater/ tv/ music room. It is 60% HT and 40% music. Currently it is a hodgepodge as follows:
-5.1 with center a McIntosh lcr80, fronts are B&W matrix 805, and surrounds are Dali Oberon on wall. Subwoofer is a KEF k cube
-amp/ receiver is an Anthem MRX540 and goes to a Classe Sigma Amp5 (200 watts per a channel)

I changed my center speaker recently as I had less space/ depth than I would need for a traditional one. There was a screaming deal on a pair of new McIntosh lcr80s (got 2 for 1k). I’m only using one. After I pulled the trigger I realized how hard they are to power (81 db sensitivity), recommend 300W at 8ohms. Thus my questions is this- given this system would you:
A. Change out the classe sigma amp for a multichannel hypex NCx50s (or just add a mono block) that could power the McIntosh well (and even consider getting a third lcr80 and having a complete matching front set)
B. Pivot away from the McIntosh speakers (sell them and likely recoup what I spent) and get a Dali Rubikore on wall or something of that ilk that is easier to power for the center assuming you will eventually switch out the fronts for Dali bookshelves as well at some point
C. Something completely different

As an aside the McIntosh lcr80 does ok after I ran room correction with the current amperage. But I think it can be much better.

Would love to hear constructive thoughts…

 

[MAB]

Alright…short time lurker, first time poster. This may be better suited for the speaker forum, but thought I would post here and see.

Recently moved and setup our home theater/ tv/ music room. It is 60% HT and 40% music. Currently it is a hodgepodge as follows:
-5.1 with center a McIntosh lcr80, fronts are B&W matrix 805, and surrounds are Dali Oberon on wall. Subwoofer is a KEF k cube
-amp/ receiver is an Anthem MRX540 and goes to a Classe Sigma Amp5 (200 watts per a channel)

I changed my center speaker recently as I had less space/ depth than I would need for a traditional one. There was a screaming deal on a pair of new McIntosh lcr80s (got 2 for 1k). I’m only using one. After I pulled the trigger I realized how hard they are to power (81 db sensitivity), recommend 300W at 8ohms. Thus my questions is this- given this system would you:
A. Change out the classe sigma amp for a multichannel hypex NCx50s (or just add a mono block) that could power the McIntosh well (and even consider getting a third lcr80 and having a complete matching front set)
B. Pivot away from the McIntosh speakers (sell them and likely recoup what I spent) and get a Dali Rubikore on wall or something of that ilk that is easier to power for the center assuming you will eventually switch out the fronts for Dali bookshelves as well at some point
C. Something completely different

As an aside the McIntosh lcr80 does ok after I ran room correction with the current amperage. But I think it can be much better.

Would love to hear constructive thoughts…

The speaker is certainly very low sensitivity according to the specs from McIntosh. Going from 200 to 300 Watts adds less than 2dB to the output.
And McIntosh recommends 75-300W into it's 8 Ohm load, your amp is close to the upper end they recommend.
If the speaker can't play loud enough in your space with your current amp, more power isn't going to help much, even pushing the speaker to distortion on loud passages.

 

[ElectricSlide]

Fair point, for some reason I had thought more power might help bring out more nuances of the McIntosh speaker. The speaker can get loud enough with the current setup, but I don’t play anything that that loud (no floor shaking).

Not to get off topic/ derail my own thread, but then why do people get 500W amps for speakers with higher sensitivity that are easier to drive?

 

[MAB]

Fair point, for some reason I had thought more power might help bring out more nuances of the McIntosh speaker. The speaker can get loud enough with the current setup, but I don’t play anything that that loud (no floor shaking).

Not to get off topic/ derail my own thread, but then why do people get 500W amps for speakers with higher sensitivity that are easier to drive?

Good question.
If you have a big room for example. But in many cases getting more efficient speakers may be a better path.
Subwoofers of course can use tons of power.
Some large speakers can actually take that amount of power.
Of all the distortions people claim various amps contribute to the sound, clipping is audible and sounds really bad. So having power reserve is a reasonable goal. There are quite a few high power amps these days with good specs. Some like the Hypex are really affordable.
If you are pushing the speaker to it's limit, more power will actually degrade the output. Speakers have much higher distortion than the amp typically has (assuming it's not clipping), and that distortion dramatically increases with cone motion/power. By your description it seems you aren't near the limits of amp or speaker, already have a very powerful amp, so more power is likely just spending money.
Also, if the LCR80 don't sound to your liking, don't waste on amps trying to fix that.

Regarding reason:
Some people get mistakenly sold high power amps to fix their SPL issues. Speakers with higher SPL capabilities and efficiency are the solution there.
Others buy into the myth that high power amps sound better. If you can really hear a difference between two amps it's because one is being misused (clipping, etc.) or is just a bad/broken design.

I like big amps. I have Bryston 7BST amps that test just above 600 Watts into 8 Ohms. They sound no different than the 4BST or 3BST that I have, just more power. I use these amps for so many different speakers configurations so that has been good, but to be honest I have a Niles 12-channel commercial installation amp that I use for building speakers since it has many bridged configurations, and is so easy to cart around. I can't really justify any of this.

 

[ElectricSlide]

Well that is extremely helpful, truly. Alright…it may be that pivoting away from the McIntosh speaker(s) is my best overall option. Very much appreciate the explanation

 

[MAB]

Well that is extremely helpful, truly. Alright…it may be that pivoting away from the McIntosh speaker(s) is my best overall option. Very much appreciate the explanation

If they sound great and play loud enough they may be useful.

Here is a table of SPL in free air vs. amplifier power for the LCR80's sensitivity for 1 and 2 meter listening distance:

I haven't seen your LCR80 measured, but Erin did review the XR50:

Mcintosh XR50 Bookshelf Speaker Review

Mcintosh XR50 Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

They are interesting, perhaps a bit bright. Erin commented bass, which may explain why they are low sensitivity (XR50 has the same sensitivity spec as the LCR80).

You should send one of your spare LCR80 to @Amir for testing! It's actually an interesting center-channel with that tweeter/mid array.

 

[Oddball]

Good question.
If you have a big room for example. But in many cases getting more efficient speakers may be a better path.
Subwoofers of course can use tons of power.
Some large speakers can actually take that amount of power.
Of all the distortions people claim various amps contribute to the sound, clipping is audible and sounds really bad. So having power reserve is a reasonable goal. There are quite a few high power amps these days with good specs. Some like the Hypex are really affordable.
If you are pushing the speaker to it's limit, more power will actually degrade the output. Speakers have much higher distortion than the amp typically has (assuming it's not clipping), and that distortion dramatically increases with cone motion/power. By your description it seems you aren't near the limits of amp or speaker, already have a very powerful amp, so more power is likely just spending money.
Also, if the LCR80 don't sound to your liking, don't waste on amps trying to fix that.

Regarding reason:
Some people get mistakenly sold high power amps to fix their SPL issues. Speakers with higher SPL capabilities and efficiency are the solution there.
Others buy into the myth that high power amps sound better. If you can really hear a difference between two amps it's because one is being misused (clipping, etc.) or is just a bad/broken design.

I like big amps. I have Bryston 7BST amps that test just above 600 Watts into 8 Ohms. They sound no different than the 4BST or 3BST that I have, just more power. I use these amps for so many different speakers configurations so that has been good, but to be honest I have a Niles 12-channel commercial installation amp that I use for building speakers since it has many bridged configurations, and is so easy to cart around. I can't really justify any of this.

Lots of Brystons in the house . I also thought that 4BSST2 would be more than enough to disturb the hood and get everyone's attention. Was experimenting with bridging those to 1KW and there was not much, if any, difference. But the speakers were more reasonable in 86dB to 91dB sensitivity range.