Relaxed, forgiving, rolled off, dark sound speakers, where are you nowadays?

[TS255]

Hi all,
Wish you all a healthy and happy 2022!

I am a new register, but not new to this forum. I have been reading a lot here and appreciate the review and discussions here, which helped me a lot in my audio journey.

At this moment, I am specifically looking for some dark sound speakers because I can get fatigued very easily these days, which could be because I am getting wiser and wiser. I spend quite some time with my nearfield setup, PC -> T+A dac8 DSD -> Schiit freya+ -> Nad c275bee -> 5 inch bookshelves.

I tried several speakers and found most of them sound thin/bright to me. For example, KEF r3 sounds bright to me but would become ideal with little EQ (near 3k - 10k with 0 to -10dB roll-off). Piano and violin can get me fatigued very easily if no EQ. Based on this experience, I start searching for speakers that ask for no eq and have a smaller size.

However, in the end, I found no speaker has such a frequency response (FR). Most of the time, the response is pronounced at upper-mid to treble. I tried Dynaudio Evoke 20 at a local store, which seems to have such an FR, but I am not 100% without a home demo, and Evoke 20s are too big. I also notice that Evoke 10 is more analytical compared to Evoke 20 .....

Can someone help to let me know if there are any 5-inch speakers born with a rolled-off from 3 kHz onwards? Ideally with <30 cm depth for nearfield listening? Do such speakers still survive in the market nowadays?

Thanks a lot!

 

[groovybassist]

If your budget will get there, I’d suggest Harbeth P3ESR or Graham Audio LS3/5.

 

[raindance]

The older Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 was very rolled off to the point of being dull. But, like most hifi speakers, not designed for extremely nearfield listening (like beside your computer monitor). Most need to be 5-8 feet from you which is still considered near field as far as listening triangles go.

Just use EQ.

 

[dc655321]

Hi all,
Wish you all a healthy and happy 2022!

I am a new register, but not new to this forum. I have been reading a lot here and appreciate the review and discussions here, which helped me a lot in my audio journey.

At this moment, I am specifically looking for some dark sound speakers because I can get fatigued very easily these days, which could be because I am getting wiser and wiser. I spend quite some time with my nearfield setup, PC -> T+A dac8 DSD -> Schiit freya+ -> Nad c275bee -> 5 inch bookshelves.

I tried several speakers and found most of them sound thin/bright to me. For example, KEF r3 sounds bright to me but would become ideal with little EQ (near 3k - 10k with 0 to -10dB roll-off). Piano and violin can get me fatigued very easily if no EQ. Based on this experience, I start searching for speakers that ask for no eq and have a smaller size.

However, in the end, I found no speaker has such a frequency response (FR). Most of the time, the response is pronounced at upper-mid to treble. I tried Dynaudio Evoke 20 at a local store, which seems to have such an FR, but I am not 100% without a home demo, and Evoke 20s are too big. I also notice that Evoke 10 is more analytical compared to Evoke 20 .....

Can someone help to let me know if there are any 5-inch speakers born with a rolled-off from 3 kHz onwards? Ideally with <30 cm depth for nearfield listening? Do such speakers still survive in the market nowadays?

Thanks a lot!

Why not EQ from your PC?

More effective than trying to find speakers with an EQ baked into them which you cannot easily change.

 

[Putter]

I might also suggest that a subwoofer will change the tonal balance and will likely reduce listener fatigue by relieving the 5 inch woofer of the need to reproduce the low bass, in this case below 100 hz.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Hi all,
Wish you all a healthy and happy 2022!

I am a new register, but not new to this forum. I have been reading a lot here and appreciate the review and discussions here, which helped me a lot in my audio journey.

At this moment, I am specifically looking for some dark sound speakers because I can get fatigued very easily these days, which could be because I am getting wiser and wiser. I spend quite some time with my nearfield setup, PC -> T+A dac8 DSD -> Schiit freya+ -> Nad c275bee -> 5 inch bookshelves.

I tried several speakers and found most of them sound thin/bright to me. For example, KEF r3 sounds bright to me but would become ideal with little EQ (near 3k - 10k with 0 to -10dB roll-off). Piano and violin can get me fatigued very easily if no EQ. Based on this experience, I start searching for speakers that ask for no eq and have a smaller size.

However, in the end, I found no speaker has such a frequency response (FR). Most of the time, the response is pronounced at upper-mid to treble. I tried Dynaudio Evoke 20 at a local store, which seems to have such an FR, but I am not 100% without a home demo, and Evoke 20s are too big. I also notice that Evoke 10 is more analytical compared to Evoke 20 .....

Can someone help to let me know if there are any 5-inch speakers born with a rolled-off from 3 kHz onwards? Ideally with <30 cm depth for nearfield listening? Do such speakers still survive in the market nowadays?

Thanks a lot!

Get an amplifier with Tone control maybe ?

 

[aac]

PC -> T+A dac8 DSD -> Schiit freya+ -> Nad c275bee

Just EQ on your PC

 

[Blumlein 88]

Having heard the Harbeth P3ESR it is in the right direction for what you want. I agree a subwoofer, even a small one for desktop monitors would help with balance.

Also agree with at least experimenting with EQ of what you have to see what might get the sound you want. I'd suggest a 3 db drop between 200 hz and 2khz, and then 3db from 2khz to 20 khz. Then I'd add 3db more from 2 khz to 20 khz and next 3 db more between 200 hz and 2 khz. Work your way down till you get something like you want.

At some point if you get close, but then cross over to simply sounding dull, I'd go back one step and put a low Q notch centered on 4 khz. Try a Q for it of .5 to 1.0. Often this is what fatigues listening.

You don't have to be running active EQ for this. Just dump a couple favorite tracks into Audacity. Do the EQ and save the various versions and compare to see what you like.

 

[Digby]

A few thoughts, I wonder if what you're experiencing isn't just excess treble, but something lacking in the bass or midbass frequencies.

I found the Behringer B2031A superior in piano and violin reproduction compared to Genelec 8030c. The character of the two speakers was roundly similar, with the Behringer being darker and Genelec brighter. What wasn't similar was my impression of bass frequencies/depth of sound. The Behringer just sounding more convincing and more composed at the lower end of the spectrum and at higher volumes too. It is an 8" speaker though and twice as big as the Genelec. The image resolves further away then 30cm too.

I'd say use EQ first, if that is still not enough, maybe you need a subwoofer or two. The Behringers are a cheap option (provided you have the space), can be adjusted for treble on the back and don't sound bright to me, given -2db tweeter setting.

 

[ZolaIII]

@TS255 I think you are looking fundamentaly wrong on this. Small cones won't have enough bass to stay in 0 dB line in the first place. The closed enclosure there way old school ones (with silk twitter) whold be the way to go with additional HF filter if needed. Unfortunately I don't know any such deacent new ones. I don't know how did things go with Kali In 8 MKII (or how ever they did call them regarding amp and other improvements) but anyway those are active monitor's. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable (regarding market) could point you more into the right direction.

 

[tvrgeek]

Darn near everything these days is too bright. I have been told is is a preference for the Asian market that is more profitable at the moment. So, I build my own. The closer you sit, the brighter they will seem.

But yes, look into the Peter Walker Curve to get an understanding of response you want at the listening position. Once upon a time we had these nifty things on our preamps called... "tone controls". They worked wonders. On my PC, I run EQ APO. On my main stereo, I can get close by tweaking the crossovers.

On the bottom end, sealed enclosures for the sub blend with the room gain much better than ported. I only build sealed subs. And since I use subs, the bookshelf alignment is pretty irrelevant. Generalizations on tweeter material are to be avoided totally. It is the result, not the choice that matters. My next tweeter I think is going to be the CSS, which is cloth. I have used many XT-25's one of the very best tweeters at any cost above 4K, and it is cloth. My HT used Seas DXT's which are Al/Mg.

A good 6 inch mid-bass can produce enough SPL for hearing damage in most living rooms. A 5 if it is not too big. Do not try and eq your way to base response as it will quickly exceed the drivers excursion leading to very high distortion. About half X-Max is where the curve spikes up. If using DSP for equalization, cut, don't boost.

I am ordering the woofers for my next desktops today. Jumping form 3 inch FE85's up to 5 inch SB's. My sub is way up @ 120 and I want it down to 80 as I can hear it occasionally. The 3's move enough air from 120 up louder than I every need as I am less than 3 feet away. I have never found an 8 that can reach to a 1 inch tweeter, so to make a full range speaker, you have to go 3 way.

 

[MarkWinston]

One word : Wharfedales.

 

[tvrgeek]

One word : Wharfedales.

Do they still hold to the traditional British tuning? Last ones I had were Diamond 10.2's a long time ago. B&W sure went sideways on their tuning. If more audio stores had preamps with tone controls, they might have sold me new speakers, but all this "purity path" garbage makes most unbearable even if they have got them smoother and lower distortion. Heard some Elac AMT's. EEEEEK. But if rolled off, maybe very good. Revel seem decent. I would like to hear some EVO 4.2s, but seems their distro here is Best Buy mail order.

Purity. Yea, how many 4558 Op-amps were in the studio board. Every track equalized, who knows if the engineer had any hearing left, and they say a tone control is terrible?

 

[MarkWinston]

Do they still hold to the traditional British tuning? Last ones I had were Diamond 10.2's a long time ago. B&W sure went sideways on their tuning. If more audio stores had preamps with tone controls, they might have sold me new speakers, but all this "purity path" garbage makes most unbearable even if they have got them smoother and lower distortion. Heard some Elac AMT's. EEEEEK. But if rolled off, maybe very good. Revel seem decent. I would like to hear some EVO 4.2s, but seems their distro here is Best Buy mail order.

Purity. Yea, how many 4558 Op-amps were in the studio board. Every track equalized, who knows if the engineer had any hearing left, and they say a tone control is terrible?

The Diamonds are getting more and more neutral by the generation, so much so the latest Diamonds, 12s, measure the most neutral with a BBC Dip that will help with excessive brightness. Thats some great british sounding speakers right there, they even have nearly same tonal balance as the Meta. The Evos, despite having that AMT, sound mellow in comparison to other speakers in its league.

 

[JEarle]

I have Wharfedale Dentons in my front room installed in suboptimal positions. Very heavily rolled off and they also look great.

 

[tvrgeek]

Now I really want to hear them. I was hoping in 30 or so years AMT's would have come into their own, but the Martin Logan, Golden Ear, and Elac all discouraged me. I guess it is implementation. Cheapest way to see I guess is buy a pair of the Santori and build myself.

 

[Thomas_A]

I was generally wondering if a near-field monitor that measure the same as a far-field loudspeaker also sounds the same, given the difference in direct to reflected power. If not, what should be adjusted?

 

[litemotiv]

Can someone help to let me know if there are any 5-inch speakers born with a rolled-off from 3 kHz onwards? Ideally with <30 cm depth for nearfield listening? Do such speakers still survive in the market nowadays?

Spendor is another brand with this type of sound signature. Since you are looking for bookshelves you could consider trying out their A1 model.

 

[DSJR]

I was going to add the Harbeth P3ESR, not because they're rolled off (they're not) but because the highs are very sweet toned and they do brushed cymbals for example delightfully which so many other speakers just don't... Forget any of the LS3/5A's, as most shriek and fizzle - deliberately I may add, as was their task in OB vans...

The Spendor designer who was there for decades has moved to Harbeth for the last year or so, so no idea where that leaves the granddaddy brand of all of these 'BeeBeeCee' types now...

Taking a spitty box and eq'ing the hf down doesn't remove the spit, it just makes it less annoying - same with boomy bass if it ain't fixed at source..

 

[tvrgeek]

No. Nearfield need to be rolled off a bit more depending on how near. The last mixing studio I visited, he was actually about 8 feet from his monitors. But, some studio monitors are intentionally not very smooth to aid in a trained engineer to hear issues to correct. The famous JBL monitors the home L100's were based on as a textbook example. Make the worst of the sound so you can fix it. Opposite of what I want to listen to. Have studio practice's changed? I do not know. I do know most "studio monitors" have plate amps I would not use in my garage.