Rel Subwoofer experiences

[marked sound]

Unless I missed it. I haven't found much for reviews on here for the REL 212. I am potentially looking at a pair of REL 212 black label subs.
Does anyone have any experience with this sub or REL subs in general? One reply to a different thread mentioned lack of posted measurements from both REL themselves, and from other reviewers, on REL subs.

The specs seem nice but I have no idea how they sound or distort and a lot of reviews seem like they are coming from REL fanboys.

Thanks.

 

[Subwaffler]

No experience with them directly but I've heard them many times at hi-fi shows. In every case, the system being demonstrated has sounded better with them switched off, to my ears.

 

[delta76]

REL has been pushing (and to some extend, succeeding) the marketing that "REL is good for music".
which is false. You either have a good sub, or you don't. A good sub with good bass extension and bass accuracy is good for music or movie. There is no distinction between those too.
REL is expensive for their performance. There are much better options for performance for price. A safe recommendation is SVS, good performance, reasonable price, excellent customer service, and widely available.

 

[Spkrdctr]

REL has been pushing (and to some extend, succeeding) the marketing that "REL is good for music".
which is false. You either have a good sub, or you don't. A good sub with good bass extension and bass accuracy is food for music or movie. There is no distinction between those too.
REL is expensive for their performance. There are much better options for performance for price. A safe recommendation is SVS, good performance, reasonable price, excellent customer service, and widely available.

SVS has world class customer service. That counts for a lot and their subs are very nice.REL is a fanboy club of subs and some of the science is kind of hokey. They are not bad sub,s just expensive for what you get.

 

[CapMan]

Another vote for SVS and their support - first class

 

[Defi]

SVS, Hsu, Monoprice, PSA, Tonewinner, RSL all offer excellent subs at similar prices. I don't see any reason to spend more than these brands unless aesthetics are important to you. If I wanted to nerd out I would get a DIY kit from GSG Audio and finish it to my liking.

 

[toddrbagwell]

Hi, I'm using 4 REL Carbon Special subs in my setup, and I am quite happy with them. My prior subs were SVS and DIY. The RELs are very well made, and with my digital EQ, they are flat to frequencies that do reproduce pipe organ music well in my room. I purchased them directly from REL on their website and the experience was smooth and drama free. I've attached a frequency response graph if it helps.

Todd

 

[101geo]

I have a couple of the early Richard Lord Styadium III subs and they are great if driven via the LFE input with no internal crossover settings. The later ones I have heard are not in the same class because, IMO, they moved away from the ARM loading system, I assume to cut manufacturing costs.

 

[Thighsofsteel]

There lower end T series products are a bit shit.
Poor bass extension, no remote app no EQ and a large price. Plus the insistence on the high level connection.
No thank you.
In the T series space the SVS sb1000 or sb2000 are much better for less money.

 

[ryanosaur]

REL are overpriced for the performance they offer. They care more about marketing BS than delivering true performance it seems. Not saying they don’t make ok subs, but they do not make great subs.

In short, you can do much better with many other companies Subs.

 

[Golfx]

I like SVS. They went from internet direct to now a successful international dealer-distributor model. They charge more but deliver well reviewed subs backed by CEA 2010 measurements. As mentioned they have class leading customer service as well.

Their success means they have a dedicated R&D department and will survive well into the future. The same cannot be said of some internet direct companies that will not likely survive the loss of the founder/owner.

 

[Berwhale]

I have a 20+ year old REL Quake in my lounge HT setup (connected to Denon AVR via LFE). It makes the required thumping sounds and it's compact frame it easy to hide. It's certainly not anywhere near state of the art in terms of subs, but at least it's been reliable for me.

 

[Keith_W]

REL is one of very few companies that has high level subwoofer inputs (i.e. takes input after power amplification instead of a preamp level input). They claim that this is better because it "preserves the tone of your amplifier into the bass region". In reality, what they do is take the high level input, knock it down with a resistor, and then amplify it again. If you use a high level input, you have a few problems:

- there is no way to high pass your speaker except by designing another passive XO that you place in between the speaker and the amplifier,
- no way to control the subwoofer independently via DSP,
- there is a risk of sending the negative terminal to the ground with certain amplifier types.

Not to mention the whole premise of "preserving the tone" of your amplifier is absurd in the first place. IMO there are no good reasons to promote a high level sub input as a superior alternative. I am sure REL has hired competent engineers, I wonder how they sleep at night knowing what management and marketing are doing.

 

[ryanosaur]

REL is one of very few companies that has high level subwoofer inputs (i.e. takes input after power amplification instead of a preamp level input). They claim that this is better because it "preserves the tone of your amplifier into the bass region". In reality, what they do is take the high level input, knock it down with a resistor, and then amplify it again. If you use a high level input, you have a few problems:

- there is no way to high pass your speaker except by designing another passive XO that you place in between the speaker and the amplifier,
- no way to control the subwoofer independently via DSP,
- there is a risk of sending the negative terminal to the ground with certain amplifier types.

Not to mention the whole premise of "preserving the tone" of your amplifier is absurd in the first place. IMO there are no good reasons to promote a high level sub input as a superior alternative. I am sure REL has hired competent engineers, I wonder how they sleep at night knowing what management and marketing are doing.

As long as the paychecks clear the bank...

 

[Chrispy]

Never been impressed by Rel let alone their silly setup cabling. They're decent performers but at multiples of cost for equivalent units. The cabinets are meh, design kinda fugly. If it floats your boat, go for it. Very very low on a list of consideration for me.

 

[marked sound]

REL is one of very few companies that has high level subwoofer inputs (i.e. takes input after power amplification instead of a preamp level input). They claim that this is better because it "preserves the tone of your amplifier into the bass region". In reality, what they do is take the high level input, knock it down with a resistor, and then amplify it again. If you use a high level input, you have a few problems:

- there is no way to high pass your speaker except by designing another passive XO that you place in between the speaker and the amplifier,
- no way to control the subwoofer independently via DSP,
- there is a risk of sending the negative terminal to the ground with certain amplifier types.

Not to mention the whole premise of "preserving the tone" of your amplifier is absurd in the first place. IMO there are no good reasons to promote a high level sub input as a superior alternative. I am sure REL has hired competent engineers, I wonder how they sleep at night knowing what management and marketing are doing.

REL is one of very few companies that has high level subwoofer inputs (i.e. takes input after power amplification instead of a preamp level input). They claim that this is better because it "preserves the tone of your amplifier into the bass region". In reality, what they do is take the high level input, knock it down with a resistor, and then amplify it again. If you use a high level input, you have a few problems:

- there is no way to high pass your speaker except by designing another passive XO that you place in between the speaker and the amplifier,
- no way to control the subwoofer independently via DSP,
- there is a risk of sending the negative terminal to the ground with certain amplifier types.

Not to mention the whole premise of "preserving the tone" of your amplifier is absurd in the first place. IMO there are no good reasons to promote a high level sub input as a superior alternative. I am sure REL has hired competent engineers, I wonder how they sleep at night knowing what management and marketing are doing.

What is your recommendation for dual subs? (Strictly for music). What I am looking for might be a unicorn, because I want subs that are both quick and precise but also go very low and move a lot of air.

I listen to a wide variety of music from classical with really low pipe organ, to jazz with lots of standup bass, I do listen to "some" techno but not a lot. I basically want a sub that goes low enough and moves the air enough so I feel those 16hz pipe organ notes, but also has the quickness to keep up with a fast standup bass solo with no overlap of notes.

My budget is $5000 per sub, but if I can find a cheaper sub that will do what I want, that is always welcome. I do not have any size restrictions. Also, if the sub has some sort of room correction, or dsp to reduce distortion, that is welcome also.

Thanks

 

[ryanosaur]

What is your recommendation for dual subs? (Strictly for music). What I am looking for might be a unicorn, because I want subs that are both quick and precise but also go very low and move a lot of air.

I listen to a wide variety of music from classical with really low pipe organ, to jazz with lots of standup bass, I do listen to "some" techno but not a lot. I basically want a sub that goes low enough and moves the air enough so I feel those 16hz pipe organ notes, but also has the quickness to keep up with a fast standup bass solo with no overlap of notes.

My budget is $5000 per sub, but if I can find a cheaper sub that will do what I want, that is always welcome. I do not have any size restrictions. Also, if the sub has some sort of room correction, or dsp to reduce distortion, that is welcome also.

Thanks

This concept of quick (and tight) is just more marketing mumbo jumbo, held over from times when Subs did actually have some of these problems. Modern designs by competent engineers perform quite well.

If you want to chase 16Hz, you should really be looking at some good ported subs, at least no smaller than 15”. You could go sealed, but you will be relying on cabin gain to help you out and the effect of cabin gain diminishes quickly when your total room volume exceeds 3000cu.ft.

Group Delay measurements under 1.5 cycles per second from low 20Hz and higher is what you will need to see in measurement data. Below 20 Hz, you don’t really hear very well and GD matters slightly less.

There are many good ported Subs that even have GD rivaling sealed designs and staying below or near 1cycle per second.

Lastly, moving air, or displacement, requires a big cone. Similar to expecting a 6” driver to deliver enough energy to feel the chest-thump of good kick drum (or John Wick shotgun blasts) a 12” driver is not going to move a lot of air. Not saying it can’t be done, but it’s just not the right tool for the job.

If Arendal still makes their 17xx 2V sub, that might be a good choice. SVS and Hsu, also should be able to deliver on what you are looking for. The new Hsu VTF-TN1 is supposed to be a very good unit.

Or reach out to Harbottle and see what they can do for you.

 

[Jiraya369]

They are not bad sub,s just expensive for what you get.

and that makes em musical

 

[Keith_W]

This concept of quick (and tight) is just more marketing mumbo jumbo, held over from times when Subs did actually have some of these problems. Modern designs by competent engineers perform quite well.

@ryanosaur answered this question very well. But I would add (as I said in your other thread) - the perception of "fast" bass has more to do with how well the sub has been integrated into the system than the sub itself. If your sub is poorly time aligned, forms room modes that take forever to decay, it will seem "flabby" or "slow". Which is why nearly everybody on ASR who owns subwoofers also has some kind of DSP.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Back when I bought my REL Studios around 30 years ago Richard Lloyd still ran the company and they were still made in Wales they still work fine so have been good vfm they had almost no competition then, there were pretty well no sub-woofers by other makes.
Now there are shed loads. Personally I would try to buy locally made since they are so heavy international shipping will strongly influence cost whist contributing zero to performance.
Mine are now just connected to my Marantz 5.1 system for films, so only used rarely.