rel acoustics live subwoofer demo

[Andysu]

not sure what to type it does my head in , yes we're all very well aware of these demo's i checked the recorded sound on the THX booth/monitor to REW all i can see is tiny fraction difference from 40Hz to 30Hz not a huge big deal for a huge price

 

[Chrispy]

It's Rel, not much to expect.

 

[Andysu]

It's Rel, not much to expect.

its what i thought

 

[CapMan]

Absolutely no visual queues at all from the little guy in the middle - nice

I had dealer like him once - insane foot taper !

 

[PHD]

I have to ask, are REL engineers complete morons, just scammers, or do they know something other engineers don't? They insist that subs must be connected via high-level w/o any DSP or bass management. Their demo sounds good, but I'm guessing the rooms are acoustically well-treated.


They claim that when using DSP to calibrate dual subs, you're only correcting for steady-state responses by adding time delays, but such time delay added to the signal path of the subs causes bass misalignment for transient sounds. Is there any truth to this?

 

[Puddingbuks]

@PHD my guess is that they aim at the “purist” market, with brands like harbeth, proac, etc. where there is little knowledge or drive to use a dsp.

 

[sigbergaudio]

not sure what to type it does my head in , yes we're all very well aware of these demo's i checked the recorded sound on the THX booth/monitor to REW all i can see is tiny fraction difference from 40Hz to 30Hz not a huge big deal for a huge price

The demo is silly with visual cues creating bias, but the difference with and without is big and easily noticable, so there must be more than a tiny fraction of difference in response here.

Disclaimer: As a (competing) subwoofer manufacturer, I would obviously agree that a subwoofer makes a difference.

 

[dan_uk]

I'm not getting alot of love for REL here? I've always thought they are a decent brand, what's the story?

 

[sigbergaudio]

I have to ask, are REL engineers complete morons, just scammers, or do they know something other engineers don't? They insist that subs must be connected via high-level w/o any DSP or bass management. Their demo sounds good, but I'm guessing the rooms are acoustically well-treated.

My theory is that they started out with this as a way to sell it more easily to those with traditional systems with no direct subwoofer support / no DSP, and perhaps not even any available preouts, and has stuck with it since. They've been around for a long time after all.

They claim that when using DSP to calibrate dual subs, you're only correcting for steady-state responses by adding time delays, but such time delay added to the signal path of the subs causes bass misalignment for transient sounds. Is there any truth to this?

No, or a least there doesn't have to be. A DSP enabled sub, calibrated to the room and fed with low level (RCA/XLR) signal will beat a high-level connected sub without DSP every day of the week.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I'm not getting alot of love for REL here? I've always thought they are a decent brand, what's the story?

I think they are way over hyped. But in the end some people like them, so if they like them and want them, it is fine by me. I just think there are a lot better subs for the money. But in many situations such as music only listening, you often times don't need a great sub. For music AND home theater you will never be disappointed with a large powerful sub vibrating your walls and cracking the ceiling paint when a dinosaur stomps on the screen! I love high output subs myself. But they are kind of expensive!

 

[goat76]

I use two REL subwoofers and the high-level connection they advocate works great in my system. The thing is that the main loudspeakers I use have very low distortion at the maximum level I will play them so I don't need to use any highpass filter. The only thing I miss is the very low bass extension for truly full-range reproduction, so I'm very happy with how these subwoofers just take care of the bass frequencies where my front speakers naturally roll-off, and this makes for a very easy and seamless integration that never get any bad type of attention.

So to anyone who struggles to get subwoofers to integrate well with your main speakers, don't hesitate to try REL subwoofers in your sound systems as they are very easy to integrate with main speakers (as long as they, in turn, don't need extra help to keep down the distortion at the maximum levels you usually listen to your music.

For the record, I use DSP upstream in my system to flatten the bass response, and that is not a problem as any possible delay will be the same for the full-range signal and not just for the bass (if that is a concern).

 

[Andysu]

I use two REL subwoofers and the high-level connection they advocate works great in my system. The thing is that the main loudspeakers I use have very low distortion at the maximum level I will play them so I don't need to use any highpass filter. The only thing I miss is the very low bass extension for truly full-range reproduction, so I'm very happy with how these subwoofers just take care of the bass frequencies where my front speakers naturally roll-off, and this makes for a very easy and seamless integration that never get any bad type of attention.

So to anyone who struggles to get subwoofers to integrate well with your main speakers, don't hesitate to try REL subwoofers in your sound systems as they are very easy to integrate with main speakers (as long as they, in turn, don't need extra help to keep down the distortion at the maximum levels you usually listen to your music.

For the record, I use DSP upstream in my system to flatten the bass response, and that is not a problem as any possible delay will be the same for the full-range signal and not just for the bass (if that is a concern).

John Hunter isn't a big fan of using EQ ,dsp EQ to flatten for linear response as stated in one other videos
mechanically roll off there is no naturally or in nature is what it nature is for which nature itself can not be fooled , earthquakes can subs do earthquakes answer is simple no , there not in the same league with nature to producing the levels of infersonic which happens to happen miles under the ground surface

if you want to check if the subs are electronically matched to the speakers that's easy , need ether special ohm resistor or cheap , crossover/booth monitor that can be connected to the computer REW RTA , connect the wires to the speakers passive crossover bass output connected to the booth monitors Amp return signals LCR Lc Rc Ls Rs BsL BsR sw , open up the active sub drill a hole in the sub for a new monitor connector , fit rca or speakon connector doesn't matter which , connect solder wires + and - to connector , this way now can have lead connected to booth monitor , so you level match the bass , electronically , so you can know how many dB electronically it is set at ,

ebay 2nd , use any of the keywords search , booth monitors , crossover booth monitors , cinema booth monitors , THX 3417 , THX D1138 booth monitors

 

[amirm]

Really bad demo. That track doesn't have deep bass. I found that with the sub off, the soundstage was actually a bit wider. The bass was tiny bit less but not material.

 

[win]

I'm not getting alot of love for REL here? I've always thought they are a decent brand, what's the story?

For me the big problem is the recommendation of high level inputs. It's just so dumb that it makes me question everything about them. The fact that their subs are adorned with crown logos all over them is also pretty gaudy.

 

[Chrispy]

I'm not getting alot of love for REL here? I've always thought they are a decent brand, what's the story?

I think they were just an early brand and made recommendations based on the old 2ch gear crowd. I

 

[goat76]

John Hunter isn't a big fan of using EQ ,dsp EQ to flatten for linear response as stated in one other videos

I have seen some of his videos before, and the thing he isn't a fan of is built-in DSP as REL don't want any delays happening to the signal in the subwoofer itself. I don't think he is against EQ, it just doesn't fit with the concept of ease of use and setting up a REL subwoofer from RELs point of view.

For the record, this is not me defending RELs ideas of things or anything. I’m just saying why I think REL doesn't want to talk that much about EQ or DSP, as It probably just doesn't fit with their marketing of ease of use.

 

[goat76]

Really bad demo. That track doesn't have deep bass. I found that with the sub off, the soundstage was actually a bit wider. The bass was tiny bit less but not material.

It's close to possible to make anything out of a microphone recording on YouTube other than conclude that “there will be more bass” if you add a subwoofer to the speaker system. I would definitely not judge the sound of being better or worse in such a demo.

 

[amirm]

It's close to possible to make anything out of a microphone recording on YouTube other than conclude that “there will be more bass” if you add a subwoofer to the speaker system. I would definitely not judge the sound of being better or worse in such a demo.

Well, they created a demo and want you to judge. So I did.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I use two REL subwoofers and the high-level connection they advocate works great in my system. The thing is that the main loudspeakers I use have very low distortion at the maximum level I will play them so I don't need to use any highpass filter. The only thing I miss is the very low bass extension for truly full-range reproduction, so I'm very happy with how these subwoofers just take care of the bass frequencies where my front speakers naturally roll-off, and this makes for a very easy and seamless integration that never get any bad type of attention.

So to anyone who struggles to get subwoofers to integrate well with your main speakers, don't hesitate to try REL subwoofers in your sound systems as they are very easy to integrate with main speakers (as long as they, in turn, don't need extra help to keep down the distortion at the maximum levels you usually listen to your music.

For the record, I use DSP upstream in my system to flatten the bass response, and that is not a problem as any possible delay will be the same for the full-range signal and not just for the bass (if that is a concern).

It's great that you have low distortion mains, but in general very few have main speakers that have lower distortion below 100hz than two good subs. Also, the reason to high pass the mains isn't only to reduce distortion. Speakers are also very often placed in a way where you will get peaks and/or dips below 100hz. So if you employ a subwoofer to fix this but don't highpass the mains, you won't be able to, since the speakers still excite the peak/dips.

Second, the story "Rel is easy to integrate" is likely true since they insist on crossing them over super low below the speakers. When the subs are only playing a single octave (20-40hz), it's limited how many room modes they can excite, and it will naturally be much easier to make them behave. This isn't a consequence of any special quality in Rel subwoofers, it's a consequence of crossing them over very low. The same would happen with any other competent sub.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

I have to ask, are REL engineers complete morons, just scammers, or do they know something other engineers don't? They insist that subs must be connected via high-level w/o any DSP or bass management. Their demo sounds good, but I'm guessing the rooms are acoustically well-treated.


They claim that when using DSP to calibrate dual subs, you're only correcting for steady-state responses by adding time delays, but such time delay added to the signal path of the subs causes bass misalignment for transient sounds. Is there any truth to this?

I find it difficult to understand how certain parts of a signal can be delayed more than others, as claimed. The entire signal sent to the subwoofer passes through the processor, which operates with a fixed clock speed and follows a predetermined DSP program with a specific number of instructions it needs to run before sending the processed signal downstream to the amplifier module. As a result, it cannot differentiate between different parts of the signal in terms of processing time.