Rega P1+ with RB303 Tonearm and Rega Exact Cartridge Review and Measurements

[Thomas_A]

Thanks for that! It's interesting, I've seen other Rega Exact measurements also showing a channel imbalance. I read that one member thought there must be something wrong with the cartridge, so sent it back to Rega. But they said there was nothing wrong with it. So I guess it's just a characteristic of these cartridges.

There is nothing wrong with it as long as it performs within spec. Many cheaper cartridges are specified "within 2 dB". One have to use a channel balance control to adjust.

 

[Stephen H]

There is nothing wrong with it as long as it performs within spec. Many cheaper cartridges are specified "within 2 dB". One have to use a channel balance control to adjust.

Ah OK, fair enough!

 

[Stephen H]

Just my take here, is that it needs to be extreme heavy or light and rigid. The Pro-Ject Essential here tends to thrum a bit if the plinth is tapped (I need to try some spike-type feet like yours to prove a hunch). The P3-2000 has quite a solid slab which is chamfered to the edge, making it look thinner than it is and it's a very muted thud through the stylus if tapped when playing.

I believe @Frank Dernie here suggested that the tripod arm-fixing screws should have one done up sensibly and the other two just nipped up to prevent rocking. I preferred older Regas to be done up tight, the rubber feet allowing some rotation rather than clamping them up (I was told this at the factory but they may have changed their minds today).

More pertinent to this thread, have you tried the better belts they offer? My EBLT makes mine run at pretty much the correct speed (using a sensitive 300Hz Linn strobe).

OK thanks for that.

I'm not sure if you noticed the edit I made on my reply, but it was something I missed out on my original reply.

"The feet aren't directly coupled with the glass as it may look. The pads they sit on have some recessed rubber domes on the bottom. Also, these are older photographs. I have also created another shelf which sits on top of the glass which also has the same rubber domes. So there should be plenty of isolation/absorption."

At least that's the theory! As for the belt, apparently these now come with an EBLT belt. So I think mine already has one. It's not particularly old and the speed seems good and stable.

 

[WDeranged]

I think the 2021 Planar 1 is a lovely turntable. I also upgraded to the glass platter (and Reference EBLT) but I went with the VM95ML.

I did buy a Planar 1+ at first but quickly realised the internal preamp was limiting me. I wasn't up for modifying it and had time to return so I got a standard Planar 1 and a Schiit Mani instead. It was a noticeable upgrade but I wanted more so I got an iFi Zen Phono which turned out to be a sidegrade. Ended up on a Spartan 15 which finally let me hear what the humble table was capable of.

I think once you get the internal phono pre out of the way you'll be quite impressed.

 

[Stephen H]

I think the 2021 Planar 1 is a lovely turntable. I also upgraded to the glass platter (and Reference EBLT) but I went with the VM95ML.

I did buy a Planar 1+ at first but quickly realised the internal preamp was limiting me. I wasn't up for modifying it and had time to return so I got a standard Planar 1 and a Schiit Mani instead. It was a noticeable upgrade but I wanted more so I got an iFi Zen Phono which turned out to be a sidegrade. Ended up on a Spartan 15 which finally let me hear what the humble table was capable of.

I think once you get the internal phono pre out of the way you'll be quite impressed.

Yeah that's fair enough. I also wouldn't have modified my P1+ straight after purchasing. However, it's long since out of warranty now. At some point I probably will bypass the internal phono stage and use an external one. I like the the idea of the Schiit Skoll, it has good RIAA implementation and can be used with balanced inputs. Given that phono cartridges are balanced by their very nature. I've always found it strange that more designers don't implement this. It would drastically help reduce any ground loop hum, which can be difficult to avoid with phono/RCA connectors, especially when coupled with the high amounts of gain required by phono stage amplifiers. The Schiit Skoll also has options to change input impedance and capacitance, which could come in very handy!

 

[DSJR]

Rega in their RB designs, always coupled the tonearm metalwork to one of the signal returns - (image from Stereonet)

This is where trouble can occur, but they saved a few pennies doing it that way and it's fine in 99% of cases, except when using a Mani I gather...

 

[Stephen H]

Update: I've rewired the tonearm with XLR plugs and purchased a Schiit Skoll phono stage. Surprising how much difference it has made. Mainly in the bass region. I think the P1+ phono stage must have had an aggressive rumble filter, eating into the audio band a bit too much.

Not much difference to see measurement-wise. The schiit skoll has a lower noise floor, but of course gets buried in the weeds the moment you play anything.

I've been looking through the Phono Cartridge Library on ASR, and I have to say (in my opinion) the Rega Exact performance is not good. It wasn't a cheap cartridge when it was released. Plenty of people also experiencing channel imbalance issues and the peak at around 12/13k is not load dependant. On a different forum, someone claimed they had 'fixed' the channel imbalance issue by shimming one side of the cartridge. But that would just push the stylus into one side of the groove more, so unless the stylus wasn't straight in the housing, that's not really a fix. Obviously I don't know the full story, so it's possible some other issue was at play. But either way, it shouldn't be necessary.

It's a shame nobody has any results for Rega's new line up of MM cartridges (ND series). Of course their website raves on about how much they've improved things. However, they've posted more or less no specs, and certainly no measurements. That instantly puts me into sceptic mode, and makes me think it's probably all pie in the sky. I like the 3 point cartridge mounting system, certainly makes life easier. That was what attracted me to the Rega Exact.

I realise that cartridges often do have some imbalance, but again, this isn't a cheap cartridge. So should be better (at least in my opinion)...... I really need to stop thinking of ways to cost myself more money

 

[DSJR]

I'll try and find it, but there's a Dutch? site with some turntables reviewed. One os the latest P3 with ND3 cartridge and very basic responses are plotted and shown in small pics. The ND3 has the familiar drop over 1kHz, but there doesn't seem to be a peak at or over 10kHz from the very limited plot shown.

Yes it's subjective (well vinyl is, ain't it?), but an old pal of mine has a current P3/RB303/ND3 and absolutely loves it. he claims it doesn't sound dull or even ripe, just well integrated subjectively without edginess or lack of hf focus that cheaper styli can add. I loathed the Bias, Elys and Exact predecessors for their squidgy bass, sucked out presence and Exact's hf peak (it's not such an issue now sadly), but 'everyone' claims the latest models are rather better and internal pics certainly show the neater construction these days, hopefully meaning better channel balance, although no attempt looks to have been made to flatten the response. An ND3 is certainly an 'opposite' tone to the AT VM540 my pal tells me, which now costs almost the same in the UK, give or take a few quid...

Not sure this subjective vibe can be measured precisely, but the lean bright (depending on stylus fitted) tones of the Ortofon OM range are starting to grate on me, subject to a different (the previous) preamp and phono stage being tried when I can! I can see the attraction by subjectivists to the Rega ND models if the bass to top balance is subjectively seamless, irrespective of the measurements.

 

[JeffS7444]

Even if it measured very well (I have no idea), Rega's ND3 is 350 USD for a bonded elliptical stylus which isn't user-replaceable, versus Ortofon's 2M Red, currently selling for 110 USD. The latter has a flat frequency response, save for frequencies above ~15 kHz, which vary depending on capacitive load. And Ortofon is relatively pricey compared to Audio Technica: 360 USD buys an A-T equipped with nude-mounted Shibata stylus and boron cantilever.

Me: I own and have measured the 2M Red personally, and am now pondering an upgrade. Ortofon 2M Bronze and at least two different A-T models are leading contenders.

 

[Stephen H]

I'll try and find it, but there's a Dutch? site with some turntables reviewed. One os the latest P3 with ND3 cartridge and very basic responses are plotted and shown in small pics. The ND3 has the familiar drop over 1kHz, but there doesn't seem to be a peak at or over 10kHz from the very limited plot shown.

Yes it's subjective (well vinyl is, ain't it?), but an old pal of mine has a current P3/RB303/ND3 and absolutely loves it. he claims it doesn't sound dull or even ripe, just well integrated subjectively without edginess or lack of hf focus that cheaper styli can add. I loathed the Bias, Elys and Exact predecessors for their squidgy bass, sucked out presence and Exact's hf peak (it's not such an issue now sadly), but 'everyone' claims the latest models are rather better and internal pics certainly show the neater construction these days, hopefully meaning better channel balance, although no attempt looks to have been made to flatten the response. An ND3 is certainly an 'opposite' tone to the AT VM540 my pal tells me, which now costs almost the same in the UK, give or take a few quid...

Not sure this subjective vibe can be measured precisely, but the lean bright (depending on stylus fitted) tones of the Ortofon OM range are starting to grate on me, subject to a different (the previous) preamp and phono stage being tried when I can! I can see the attraction by subjectivists to the Rega ND models if the bass to top balance is subjectively seamless, irrespective of the measurements.

Cool, thanks for the info. If you do manage to find that site, let me know. I'd be curious to have a look. I guess I like to see measurements because it is such a subjective thing when it comes to vinyl. What works for one person, might not work for another. The measurements can help steer you in a direction. I do notice that my right Channel is a bit louder and have no easy way to attenuate it, also I do notice the peak in high frequencies. So, my next cart it would be good to know that it's more flat with better channel balance. Apart from that, I'm very happy with my current setup. Interesting that you say the construction of the ND series is better. One would hope that better engineering results in better performance!

 

[Stephen H]

Even if it measured very well (I have no idea), Rega's ND3 is 350 USD for a bonded elliptical stylus which isn't user-replaceable, versus Ortofon's 2M Red, currently selling for 110 USD. The latter has a flat frequency response, save for frequencies above ~15 kHz, which vary depending on capacitive load. And Ortofon is relatively pricey compared to Audio Technica: 360 USD buys an A-T equipped with nude-mounted Shibata stylus and boron cantilever.

Me: I own and have measured the 2M Red personally, and am now pondering an upgrade. Ortofon 2M Bronze and at least two different A-T models are leading contenders.

Thanks for that. With my new phono stage, I have the option to change the capacitive load. So always something I can experiment with. I tried changing the loading on my Rega Exact cart, but made virtually no measurable or audible difference (at least not within the audio band). But from further reading thats typical of the Exact cart. Other people have commented saying the peak is not load dependant which would explain it.

 

[DSJR]

Cool, thanks for the info. If you do manage to find that site, let me know. I'd be curious to have a look. I guess I like to see measurements because it is such a subjective thing when it comes to vinyl. What works for one person, might not work for another. The measurements can help steer you in a direction. I do notice that my right Channel is a bit louder and have no easy way to attenuate it, also I do notice the peak in high frequencies. So, my next cart it would be good to know that it's more flat with better channel balance. Apart from that, I'm very happy with my current setup. Interesting that you say the construction of the ND series is better. One would hope that better engineering results in better performance!

I'm very sorry. I found the link but the group test, done late last year I think, has gone... if you look online, there are internal pics of the old range and the new, with the shield plates removed. The ND series in fairness, does look a lot neater and less internally 'cobbled' at least visually.

 

[Stephen H]

Well I went for it and ordered an ND7. Listening tests tell me it sounds much better than the exact. Ran some measurements and got the below.

SJPlot using Nyquist correction script for Ortofon LP:

47k/100pf(ish) loading.

-Channel Balance is basically spot on.
-Distortion is lower than the Exact. This is clarified further below.
-Crosstalk performance is much better.
-Frequency response it's an improvement but still not flat. Peak is less significant and reaches 20k before rolling off >= 1db(ish). I personally still feel that Rega could do better in this regard.

REW 1khz distortion:

-Definitely fewer distortion spikes present than the Exact.
-Ignore 50khz spike - the 1khz tone on the Ortofon LP is near the middle, so picks up some hum from the synchronous AC motor. I will probably experiment with grounding the motor casing at some point to try and improve this.

For giggles I also performed a frequency sweep using the same method I used in my original post:

It might not be accurate, but still interesting to see the flatter frequency response and even channel balance.

Personally I would still like to see a flatter frequency response provided by Rega cartridges. But at least they have improved things both subjectively and objectively

 

[xlinknz]

I just discovered this thread and it caught my attention as I have a late (original to me) 1980s Rega P3 with RB300

One year ago I had it serviced so I could recommissioned after being in storage 2 decades. It wasn't in good shape, the Orotfon MC20S had a broken cantilever (first child as a toddler lightly broken it), the arm was wobbly. It how has a AT VM95E MM and a (Reference EBLT) new belt, it works. Note in the late 80s the arm was rewired with silver cabling.

@Stephen H when you say custom isolation feet you mean the actual feet or when the feet sit on. I ask as I have lost my original rubber feet as in the late 80s I had a Audioquest Sorbothane matt and feet. I have gone back to the felt matt but am keen to get new feet hence asking

I have toyed with the idea of trying a MC such as the Orotofon MC X10 or a AT VM95S (Shibata). I was also thinking about a MiniDSP PocketADC so I can listen using headphones via my Fiio DAC

 

[Stephen H]

I just discovered this thread and it caught my attention as I have a late (original to me) 1980s Rega P3 with RB300

One year ago I had it serviced so I could recommissioned after being in storage 2 decades. It wasn't in good shape, the Orotfon MC20S had a broken cantilever (first child as a toddler lightly broken it), the arm was wobbly. It how has a AT VM95E MM and a (Reference EBLT) new belt, it works. Note in the late 80s the arm was rewired with silver cabling.

@Stephen H when you say custom isolation feet you mean the actual feet or when the feet sit on. I ask as I have lost my original rubber feet as in the late 80s I had a Audioquest Sorbothane matt and feet. I have gone back to the felt matt but am keen to get new feet hence asking

I have toyed with the idea of trying a MC such as the Orotofon MC X10 or a AT VM95S (Shibata). I was also thinking about a MiniDSP PocketADC so I can listen using headphones via my Fiio DAC

Hi, the feet are 3D printed parts. If you have access to a printer, I would be more than happy to send you over the STL files. You would need to purchase the spikes off amazon which insert into the body of the feet. The pads have a centre tapped coin for the spikes to sit on. See photo:

The underside of the pad has some recessed holes for rubber pads to fit inside:

Provides some grip and some damping.

Also, I have some spare original feet from my P1 which I would be willing to sell if you're in the UK. PM me if you're interested.

Cheers!

 

[DSJR]

I just discovered this thread and it caught my attention as I have a late (original to me) 1980s Rega P3 with RB300

One year ago I had it serviced so I could recommissioned after being in storage 2 decades. It wasn't in good shape, the Orotfon MC20S had a broken cantilever (first child as a toddler lightly broken it), the arm was wobbly. It how has a AT VM95E MM and a (Reference EBLT) new belt, it works. Note in the late 80s the arm was rewired with silver cabling.

@Stephen H when you say custom isolation feet you mean the actual feet or when the feet sit on. I ask as I have lost my original rubber feet as in the late 80s I had a Audioquest Sorbothane matt and feet. I have gone back to the felt matt but am keen to get new feet hence asking

I have toyed with the idea of trying a MC such as the Orotofon MC X10 or a AT VM95S (Shibata). I was also thinking about a MiniDSP PocketADC so I can listen using headphones via my Fiio DAC

I have to ask and apologies here, but why the silver internal cabling? Rega use excellent internals on their wires, even if the externals don't look posh on older RB300 models... To anyone contemplating changing perfectly good wiring on these forty year old arms, I'd suggest DON'T unless they're faulty or the need for better looking cabling is there... Cartridge tags are one thing, but the entire loom, possibly disturbing a grommet in the arm pipe I gather, is another... Even with the humble warm but well integrated tones of the Carbon pro, differences in the disc played are very easy to hear (and in the past, cartridge and styli comparisons), so the wiring is doing it's job properly I feel. Just sayin' fellas

Decks at twenty or more years old, really must have the main bearing checked for usable EP80 oil, as even in the moderate UK climate, said oil can dry out. Also, GENTLY check the main bearing and older tonearm fixing nuts for firm tightness (be very careful how the arm is held while checking said fixing nut, as clumsy handling and over-tightening of said but can break the plastic bias-arm rest assembly - cough - I blame 'Linn Tightness' myself - cough cough - )




P.S. The printed feet and cones look fab, but the gamble I took with my P3-2000 was to just plonk it on the media unit I have the second rig set up in and used with lid removed (Regas MUST be used without the dust cover in situ for best feedback-free sonics), I can hard-thump the top of said unit (not a hugely substantial thing) and all but nothing gets through, which amazed me. I did try extra sorbothane feet under the old trad Rega ones and didn't like it personally, but being a subjective impression, it's only relevant to me really and subject to change. The sorbothane under the similar but lighter Pro-Ject Essential really did not seem to work, the structure of the thing itself being the culprit in terms ot tapping the top of the media unit and also the plinth while playing to see what the stylus reproduces.

They're not cheap now, but the Rega wall bracket old and new is best of all in my experience if the wall is able to safely take the load. Latest Regas seem to be more immune to siting than ever though, but we're discussing an older model here.

 

[Thomas_A]

Well I went for it and ordered an ND7. Listening tests tell me it sounds much better than the exact. Ran some measurements and got the below.

SJPlot using Nyquist correction script for Ortofon LP:

View attachment 538846
47k/100pf(ish) loading.

-Channel Balance is basically spot on.
-Distortion is lower than the Exact. This is clarified further below.
-Crosstalk performance is much better.
-Frequency response it's an improvement but still not flat. Peak is less significant and reaches 20k before rolling off >= 1db(ish). I personally still feel that Rega could do better in this regard.

REW 1khz distortion:

View attachment 538847

-Definitely fewer distortion spikes present than the Exact.
-Ignore 50khz spike - the 1khz tone on the Ortofon LP is near the middle, so picks up some hum from the synchronous AC motor. I will probably experiment with grounding the motor casing at some point to try and improve this.

For giggles I also performed a frequency sweep using the same method I used in my original post:

View attachment 538851

It might not be accurate, but still interesting to see the flatter frequency response and even channel balance.

Personally I would still like to see a flatter frequency response provided by Rega cartridges. But at least they have improved things both subjectively and objectively

If you use that scale most things look flat. Other than that, the Rega Exact I've seen have typical sloping curve from 1 kHz with a rise in the end.

 

[DSJR]

If you use that scale most things look flat. Other than that, the Rega Exact I've seen have typical sloping curve from 1 kHz with a rise in the end.

The Exact in both versions, as well as the cheaper Elys and Elys 2, had a kind of 'squidgy' quality of reproduced tone. No idea how measurements could confirm this - I mean, the ancient Shure V15 Type II from the late 60s has similar sucked-out response, yet sounds restrained up-top rather than syrupy or 'thick' lower down. Pics I've seen of the ND innards, indicate a much neater construction in fairness than before and I'm sure the better channel balance is a result of this. Maybe the stylus hinge is better or more solidly located as well and if so, could help explain lower distortion and more 'solid' reproduction style? All guessing, but as Rega have worked so hard in subtly incrementally improving their decks and arms and have always had at least more than adequate phono stages, it'd be a shame for their pickups to seriously let the side down.

These ND models took some years to gestate I remember and aren't so silly-priced in the UK at least (ND7 is around VMx745 price though).

 

[Stephen H]

If you use that scale most things look flat. Other than that, the Rega Exact I've seen have typical sloping curve from 1 kHz with a rise in the end.

Yeah I was supposed to change the scale, but I took the screenshot and then closed REW..whoops. It was nearly 2:30am so I just posted it as is. Anyway, I'm not going to bother redoing it now. To my ears it's a much better sounding Cartridge than the exact. So I'm happy. I was just curious to see if there was any signs of improvement from a measurement perspective, which there is. The first graph from Sjplot is probably the most useful.

The Exact in both versions, as well as the cheaper Elys and Elys 2, had a kind of 'squidgy' quality of reproduced tone. No idea how measurements could confirm this - I mean, the ancient Shure V15 Type II from the late 60s has similar sucked-out response, yet sounds restrained up-top rather than syrupy or 'thick' lower down. Pics I've seen of the ND innards, indicate a much neater construction in fairness than before and I'm sure the better channel balance is a result of this. Maybe the stylus hinge is better or more solidly located as well and if so, could help explain lower distortion and more 'solid' reproduction style? All guessing, but as Rega have worked so hard in subtly incrementally improving their decks and arms and have always had at least more than adequate phono stages, it'd be a shame for their pickups to seriously let the side down.

These ND models took some years to gestate I remember and aren't so silly-priced in the UK at least (ND7 is around VMx745 price though).

Yeah makes sense, I would agree the better construction will be responsible for the improved balance. The ND7 definitely exhibits smoother/tighter bass than the Exact. I guess distortion is probably lower further down the scale too. It's a real shame I don't have a test LP with a full frequency sweep. Unfortunately it seems the clearaudio LP is hard to find in the UK without spending silly money. If I ever get hold of one I'll do a full sweep of the ND cartridge and post it in the Cartridge library. Anyway, I guess the main point here is that the ND7 from a listening point of view is a significant improvement over the Exact! So I haven't wasted my money. Although there are cartridges with seemingly better performance for the money, I like the 3 point mounting system, gives you much less room for error!

 

[xlinknz]

@DSJR on your question why the rewired RB300. I do not recall it was over 40 years ago, presumably recommended as an upgrade over whatever came in the RB300 in the late 80s. I suspect at the same time as I went from a OM10 MM to a MC20S (the later considered very high end at the time)

On the main bearing I do recall earlier that was oiled when it was relatively recently restored to service. I also don't use my lid on when spinning a disc (in fact one of the plastic hinges came off)

My Sorbothane feet are these (I use 3). I may try you suggestion of a thump to see what difference they make but I don't have my old feet to compare