Rega Fono MM MK3 Phono Preamp Review

[Dgob]

Any fairly nice CD player will have digital outputs, generally in two forms. One is the TOSLINK port, which is a little rectangular opening with a tiny door over it. This is sometimes labeled 'optical' because it uses a fiber optic connection to send the ones and zeroes. The other is 'Coaxial' which looks like a normal RCA connector, but also requires a special cable. I prefer the coaxial connector because the fiber optic cables tend to be a bit less flexible, but either will work perfectly. In either case you will need a specific cable; a normal RCA won't work for the coax connection.

All you do is connect the cable to the correct digital output/input and select the proper input in the DAC if it doesn't just start playing automatically.

Many thanks again 617,

Yes, both CDPs have both the optical and coaxial outputs. Does the flexibility that you mention with the coaxial relate to being more moveable or having wider uses? And/or would I hear an improvement using coaxial over optical?

I have just ordered the E30 and will now try to get a suitable cable, when I hear back from you.

I've also bought a 5v DC power bank, as someone online suggests that this can make a huge difference to the E30's performance.

 

[617]

Many thanks again 617,

Yes, both CDPs have both the optical and coaxial outputs. Does the flexibility that you mention with the coaxial relate to being more moveable or having wider uses? And/or would I hear an improvement using coaxial over optical?

I have just ordered the E30 and will now try to get a suitable cable, when I hear back from you.

I've also bought a 5v DC power bank, as someone online suggests that this can make a huge difference to the E30's performance.

The flexibility I refered to is the physical flexibility of the cable. At reasonable lengths, both provide perfect performance. The TOSLINK cable is a fiber optic cable, meaning it either has glass or clear plastic fibers running through it. As a result, it can be a bit stiffer than a nice slinky copper cable. In practice it isn't a big deal, but I prefer more flexible cables.

 

[Dgob]

The flexibility I refered to is the physical flexibility of the cable. At reasonable lengths, both provide perfect performance. The TOSLINK cable is a fiber optic cable, meaning it either has glass or clear plastic fibers running through it. As a result, it can be a bit stiffer than a nice slinky copper cable. In practice it isn't a big deal, but I prefer more flexible cables.

Many thanks for the clarification. I already have an optic cable that runs from my tv to a soundbar. It is, however, about 2m long!! Would that be too long and should I try to get a different length of this or the coaxial? Also, what would you say is an ideal length for either type of cable?

Ever grateful

 

[Helicopter]

Many thanks for the clarification. I already have an optic cable that runs from my tv to a soundbar. It is, however, about 2m long!! Would that be too long and should I try to get a different length of this or the coaxial? Also, what would you say is an ideal length for either type of cable?

Ever grateful

Ideal is the distance you will rout it or slightly longer, so you don't have cable management problems... or the longest you expect to need for long term versatility without going over 50 feet or so. If you get coax, get a 'digital' one with the proper spec for data, since these use the same connectors as analog audio cables and analog will work with virtually anything at reasonable distances.

 

[Dgob]

Ideal is the distance you will rout it or slightly longer, so you don't have cable management problems... or the longest you expect to need for long term versatility without going over 50 feet or so. If you get coax, get a 'digital' one with the proper spec for data, since these use the same connectors as analog audio cables and analog will work with virtually anything at reasonable distances.

Excellent. Just ordered 1.2m of digital audio coax cable. Many thanks again.

 

[Dgob]

Just to say another huge 'thank you', particularly to 617 and Helicopter.

The Topping E30 arrived yesterday and I wired it up to have the CDP on the coax and my TV on the optic. Well, WOW!! Spent all yesterday evening going through my CD collection and discovering detail that had only been hinted at in my former set-ups. I also appreciate your reserve 617 when you were non-committal on whether I would hear a marked improvement by introducing the DAC. It was a huge improvement!! However, I do think that I will go for a little mid and bottom end extension by eventually getting a sub (currently thinking of getting a KRK s8.4!?), but that is by no means a matter of urgency and relates to the frequency range permitted in my KRK Rokit 5 G4 monitors.

My wife did raise concern about the volume, as the Topping doesn't allow you to control its volume when you're using it as a DAC, and volume control on my transport doesn't seem to be able to make the necessary adjustments. I can adjust it at the back of the monitors but was wondering if there's a way around this that doesn't involve me tearing across the room when an increase in volume happens. I had a particularly interesting moment while listening to Gary Karr's (24 kt Gold Edition, Cisco Music) rendition of Albinoni's Adagio in G Minor, when Harmon Lewis opens up on the pipe organ and it was startling!

Anyway, any suggestions around managing the volume would be appreciated. And, again, thanks.

 

[Helicopter]

Just to say another huge 'thank you', particularly to 617 and Helicopter.

The Topping E30 arrived yesterday and I wired it up to have the CDP on the coax and my TV on the optic. Well, WOW!! Spent all yesterday evening going through my CD collection and discovering detail that had only been hinted at in my former set-ups. I also appreciate your reserve 617 when you were non-committal on whether I would hear a marked improvement by introducing the DAC. It was a huge improvement!! However, I do think that I will go for a little mid and bottom end extension by eventually getting a sub (currently thinking of getting a KRK s8.4!?), but that is by no means a matter of urgency and relates to the frequency range permitted in my KRK Rokit 5 G4 monitors.

My wife did raise concern about the volume, as the Topping doesn't allow you to control its volume when you're using it as a DAC, and volume control on my transport doesn't seem to be able to make the necessary adjustments. I can adjust it at the back of the monitors but was wondering if there's a way around this that doesn't involve me tearing across the room when an increase in volume happens. I had a particularly interesting moment while listening to Gary Karr's (24 kt Gold Edition, Cisco Music) rendition of Albinoni's Adagio in G Minor, when Harmon Lewis opens up on the pipe organ and it was startling!

Anyway, any suggestions around managing the volume would be appreciated. And, again, thanks.

I use and am very happy with a (unfortunately discontinued) Schiit Saga S in my bedroom system for remote volume control. You could look for one of those, or try a Saga+.

 

[Dgob]

I use and am very happy with a (unfortunately discontinued) Schiit Saga S in my bedroom system for remote volume control. You could look for one of those, or try a Saga+.

Thanks again, the significance of a preamp in addressing this issue didn't even cross my tired mind. But you've cleared the muddy waters of my thinking.

I do have a shopping list with the Topping Pre90 preamp on it. In the meantime, I could do with the exercise and so will probably continue racing over to address the volume on the speakers until the time and funds allow for the Pre90 or suitable alternative. I will bear the Saga S in mind as well.

 

[Dgob]

You can use your current CD player as a transport, and use its optical or coaxial outputs to feed a standalone DAC. Fortunately this is one area where technology has progressed immensely, and you can have audibly perfect audio from your CD collection for a minimal outlay.

You can get, for example, a Topping E30:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-dac-review.12119/

Which produces noise and distortion that is 112db quieter than the main signal. It surpasses the physical limitations of the CD format by 16db.
I can't say it will sound better, but I can say that the performance from a technical perspective is effectively perfect.

Personally I don't have a CD player now, but if I did I would get a vintage machine which I enjoyed operating, and feed it into a modern DAC like the Topping.

Hi Again, I was just reflecting on the fact that you use neither CD's or Vinyl. So, out of curiosity and potential development, can I ask what mediums (and even system) do you use for your music?

Hope that's not intrusive.

 

[617]

Hi Again, I was just reflecting on the fact that you use neither CD's or Vinyl. So, out of curiosity and potential development, can I ask what mediums (and even system) do you use for your music?

Hope that's not intrusive.

Cds ripped to lossless format and spotify streamed to my phone, my stereo, speakers and headphones. I have a turntable (sl1200 mkii) but I'm not using it at present.

 

[Dgob]

Cds ripped to lossless format and spotify streamed to my phone, my stereo, speakers and headphones. I have a turntable (sl1200 mkii) but I'm not using it at present.

Many thanks 617

 

[Dgob]

Just another query along the already ploughed lines, but does the quality of the CD transport make a real audible difference when it comes to using my Topping E30 DAC? I ask because I recently heard that the transport can make a difference and I am still wondering if it would be worthwhile paying the sum to have my Marantz CD7 repaired to use that as my transport in place of the presently running Marantz CD63 Mk2 KI.

Any help or suggestions would be warmly welcomed.

 

[617]

Just another query along the already ploughed lines, but does the quality of the CD transport make a real audible difference when it comes to using my Topping E30 DAC? I ask because I recently heard that the transport can make a difference and I am still wondering if it would be worthwhile paying the sum to have my Marantz CD7 repaired to use that as my transport in place of the presently running Marantz CD63 Mk2 KI.

Any help or suggestions would be warmly welcomed.

Audiophiles manufacture and share anxiety about technical non issues like transport quality in order to validate their own anxiety, justify expenditure on products which do almost nothing, or make money to feed their children . Modern DACs do an extremely good job of rejecting noise, reclocking and buffering binary data, and basically sanitizing any irregularities produced by the transport, usb host, 5G waves, demons, angels and so on.

Unless you see measurements, probably best to ignore.

 

[Dgob]

Audiophiles manufacture and share anxiety about technical non issues like transport quality in order to validate their own anxiety, justify expenditure on products which do almost nothing, or make money to feed their children . Modern DACs do an extremely good job of rejecting noise, reclocking and buffering binary data, and basically sanitizing any irregularities produced by the transport, usb host, 5G waves, demons, angels and so on.

Unless you see measurements, probably best to ignore.

It's "as you were" then. Many thanks 617

 

[617]

It's "as you were" then. Many thanks 617

Do you have any records you're looking forward to hearing again?

 

[Dgob]

Do you have any records you're looking forward to hearing again?

It's funny you should ask that because I've spent the past couple of weeks trying to get many of my records (vinyl) on CD. I had started this many years before, but since I've been getting the performance from my new (budget) set-up, I've intensified this ongoing mission.

To get to your question, that means that there are really only records that are not available (or are ridiculously priced) on CD. Some that come immediately to mind would include: Eddie Gale's Ghetto Music; Orchestr Gustava Broma (1968); Yusef Lateef's Jazz 'Round the World; and Villa-Lobo's Bachianas Brasileiras Nos. 2, 5. 6 & 9 with the French National Radio Orchestra. These are the ones that I've had problems getting on CD so far, but I suspect there will be hundreds more - even though I have been pleasantly surprised by the large amount of material that I CAN now find in this newer format.

Sadly, I've just bitten the bullet and ordered the Topping Pre90 with the Ext90. That means it will be quite some time before I can afford the phono preamp to be able to hear my records again. Still, with the quest to replicate the mass of my vinyl on CD and the awakening that this forum and Amir's reviews are affording me, I have plenty to get on with during the (I'm certain) long wait.

 

[Dgob]

Should just say that the preamp purchase was largely induced by my wife's reaction to the loudness of the E30 and Rokit 5 combination when playing my CDP, sans immediate volume control. A happy-sad consequence.

 

[617]

Should just say that the preamp purchase was largely induced by my wife's reaction to the loudness of the E30 and Rokit 5 combination when playing my CDP, sans immediate volume control. A happy-sad consequence.

I inherited a lot of latin and jazz lps from a family member and I'm surprised how many of them are on CD. The problem is often not that they don't exist on CD, as you say, but the CDs are rare and very expensive. There's a Baden Powell cd I've been pining for which I may track down one of these days.

Those are all excellent recordings, it's nice to help out a real music lover like yourself. Lot of these guys are spending 50k to listen to the Eagles.

 

[Dgob]

I inherited a lot of latin and jazz lps from a family member and I'm surprised how many of them are on CD. The problem is often not that they don't exist on CD, as you say, but the CDs are rare and very expensive. There's a Baden Powell cd I've been pining for which I may track down one of these days.

Those are all excellent recordings, it's nice to help out a real music lover like yourself. Lot of these guys are spending 50k to listen to the Eagles.

Good luck in your search for the late, great Sr Powell: whichever of his CD's it is. I'm truly with you in the search for digitized treasures while working from small pockets. As they put it: viva a música!

 

[Dgob]

I just posted the following on the Topping Pre90 review and thread. I repost by way of thanking those that have helped on this thread and to update you on developments to my system:


Just a quick word on the Topping Pre90 and on my gratitude to Amir and the ASR forums. Time and circumstance have led to my having to "downgrade" my system from the space-demanding, very expensive vinyl-based system that I have established over a few decades.

So I set off looking for "budget" bookshelf speakers that might allow for audiophile quality sound. It was in researching these options that I came across Amir's review of the KRK Rokit monitors. Given that I was leaning toward getting the acclaimed B&W 607 S2 speakers, his review of these and contrasting review of the Rokit 5 G4's led me to get the latter. And I was impressed with these monitors, that were "budget" in price only!

This increased my faith and led me to join some of the ASR forums: where more help was offered kindly. That and Amir's review led to my buying a Topping E30 DAC, which I used with my "budget" Marantz CD63 KI Signature. Again, the E30 was "budget" in name only and I was further impressed. However, I needed a way to manage volume when using the E30, apart from getting up to adjust the volume on the Rokit 5's.

More advice from members of the ASR forums (particularly 617) and I decided to get the Topping Pre90 preamp, which brings me back on topic. This arrived 3 days ago and has been up and running for 2 full days. Well, Wow!!! This has made a CD convert of me and elevated this apparently "budget" system to a level that exceeds my earlier and massively more expensive system - including the Marantz CD7 digital front-end.

I am now hearing more detail than I have ever achieved before. One case in point is my listening to the CD of Taj Mahal's 'Sooo Good 'n Blues' album. On the final track - 'Teacup's Jazzy Blues Tune' - Taj's whistling and the backing vocals of the Pointer Sisters and the various bells and cymbals that they use are brought into complete detail with the staging also offering a phenomenal realism. Then, the conclusion of this track has Taj Mahal complete with the words "out of sight!". On my earlier systems, this is preceded by a couple of sounds that I had assumed were his double base being placed on the wooden floor. It now turns out that Taj in fact takes three steps further back on the stage before making his concluding (and very accurate) statement: "OUT OF SIGHT!"

So I am grateful to Amir and the contributors to these ASR fora. I have achieved more from less and realized that "budget" doesn't have to mean worse. This all begs the question: 'what value knowledge?'

Thanks again.