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Reel-to-Reel Addiction can be expensive!

amirm

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Check out the price of latest release from Goove Note in R2R: http://audiophile.elusivedisc.com/s...re&method=and&view=grid&af=cat:reeltoreeltape

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Raw tape cost is about $160. Suffice it to say, I am too damn cheap to get one. :)
 

c1ferrari

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I might consider if it were a 30 ips, 1/2-track, 1/2", direct, flat, dub in real time of the stereo mix master. ;)
 

Sal1950

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amirm

amirm

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I do. It is an Otari. I have just a handful of tapes. The best one is a bootleg sampler of second gen master tapes. The others I bought were $250 each and while good, don't get as much play.
 

watchnerd

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I do. It is an Otari. I have just a handful of tapes. The best one is a bootleg sampler of second gen master tapes. The others I bought were $250 each and while good, don't get as much play.

Yeah, the Tape Project's $250 per pop is a major buzz kill. I'll still probably get an RTR someday anyway.

But the real (reel?) red flag for me is all the different formats and speeds, and their incompatibilities, that is the real friction point for me; looking at vintage tapes on eBay and realizing I can't just assume I can buy and play any of them on any given RTR deck.

Much more complex than the world of LP collecting.
 
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amirm

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For the most part, if you get a deck that supports 15 ips speed and IBC you are good. NAB is needed sometimes (as in the case of my tapes). Fortunately my deck is one of the few that has both built-in!

Once there though, you have none of the hassles of tonearms, cartridges, pops/clicks, etc. So it is pretty superior to LP in that manner.
 

watchnerd

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For the most part, if you get a deck that supports 15 ips speed and IBC you are good. NAB is needed sometimes (as in the case of my tapes). Fortunately my deck is one of the few that has both built-in!

Once there though, you have none of the hassles of tonearms, cartridges, pops/clicks, etc. So it is pretty superior to LP in that manner.

No doubt, although most of my vinyl are pristine audiophile reissues, which are pretty damn pop/click free.

Vintage, on the other hand...well, I've stopped buying them.
 

sergeauckland

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I grew up on tape, my first job was working with tape, designing high-speed tape duplicator electronics and designing machines to make test tapes, so tape machine calibration is something I grew up with.

Our normal routine at work was to come in at 9 AM, switch on all the tape machines, then go and have a cup of coffee whilst they warmed up. Then the techies would spend half an hour aligning the machine, so the studio could start work at 10:00. On hot summer days, we might do a realignment after lunch, although on most days in the UK that wasn't necessary. Nevertheless, what a Faff, and if a machine couldn't be brought into spec, it then had to be taken out of service and taken to the workshop.

I have to say that when it became possible to record on a PC, I breathed a huge sigh of relief, and jubilation. No more having to check azimuth, EQ, bias before every recording. No more having to demag the transport before playing a valuable original tape. No more generation loss with every copy, no more fiddling around with levels to maintain Dolby tracking. Non-destructive editing! I admit that I was, perhaps, rather obsessive about the set-up of my recorders, but when I bought a Digigram PC card, all my recording issues were over, Just start record, and it works.

Tape is fun, in a retro sort of way, much as 1948 MG-TCs or 1929 blown Bentleys are fun, but I wouldn't want either as my daily transport.

S.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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Hating snap, crackle, pop on LP with a passion, I bought a new ReVox G36 III ages ago - 10.5", 3 motors, etc. My dubs of LPs sounded generally unchanged audibly at 7.5 ips, though not at 3.75. But, the expense of buying blank tape, LP dubbing time, tape squeal, duplicate LP and tape storage, and general inconvenience caused the whole idea to lack luster in just a few years. Hi speed duped commercial recordings were often sonically poor in comparison to LPs back then, much more limited in choices and much more expensive. I considered it a failed experiment. So, I sold it. I have got no hankering to ever go back, especially not at today's prices.
 

DonH56

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I got rid of both my big rigs, wish Id kept them as they'd be worth a small fortune now. I kept only a cheap consumer 7" unit (Pioneer RT-707) that I thought sounded decent. Haven't taken it out of the box in years. Only goes to 7.5 ips IIRC; both the big rigs did 15 ips and the mastering unit did 30 ips. But 30 ips and 1/2" or 1" tape (forget, long time ago) was costly! I found some old tapes quite a few years ago but gave them away to a friend still in the biz as I did not have a machine that would play them. I'm with @sergeauckland that digital editing is much easier and more powerful. Think I still have a pack of single-edged razor blades in my RT-707's box with a couple of tapes.
 

TBone

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Well, saturation was more forgiving, kinda cool watching those BIG VU meters go into the red...
 

Sal1950

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Hating snap, crackle, pop on LP with a passion, I bought a new ReVox G36 III ages ago - 10.5", 3 motors, etc. My dubs of LPs sounded generally unchanged audibly at 7.5 ips, though not at 3.75. But, the expense of buying blank tape, LP dubbing time, tape squeal, duplicate LP and tape storage, and general inconvenience caused the whole idea to lack luster in just a few years. Hi speed duped commercial recordings were often sonically poor in comparison to LPs back then, much more limited in choices and much more expensive. I considered it a failed experiment. So, I sold it. I have got no hankering to ever go back, especially not at today's prices.
You took the words out of my mouth. I bought my Pioneer 707 with the dreams of making "perfect" copies of my and friends LP's. Also getting those "master" tapes from the big labels that would cure all the audible issues with LP's . Then as you, the shine of recording LP's wore off quickly when the reality of time involved and costs sank in. I had also signed up for some Tape Of The Month club (from Columbia or RCA) to get pre-recorded factory "masters" of all the latest rock albums, only to find they were 3 3/4 IPS tapes that sounded like crap. After getting burned for about 20-25 of these awesome babies I finally quit the club. After the tape machine sat unused for 3-4 years I finally sold it. They do make nice conversation pieces if you have the room today.
 

tomelex

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Well, saturation was more forgiving, kinda cool watching those BIG VU meters go into the red...

yeah, and as you know going into the red is what gave tape some of its "sound", eh, tone control effect....watching reels go round, meters dance, records spin, tubes glow, woofers vibrate low frequencies was all part of the game, after all when in the sweet spot we were looking at our system or closing our eyes, not much else you could do.
 

cjfrbw

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I used tape for years since my student days. I just recorded all my friend's albums like a leech on a Roberts Reel to Reel. I wore out two Roberts with glass heads that were supposed to be "wear proof". My last deck was a Teac 707R. I archived my tapes to DAT, and I still remember the pain when I dumped all the old RtoR tapes because I could not find a reliable repair person for the Teac (olden days before the internet).

As far as demos, a nice 15ips low generation tape master IS the ultimate analog experience. However, how many of those are you going to have around, especially when you go OUCH every time you buy one, and then worry about the archiving etc.

Vinyl has a much larger and more convenient catalogue of available music for analog. Vinyl records are also pretty tough. I don't mind the minor pop or tick, even like some because it is so dimensional. I can hear them in my surround system going around the room and some seem like they are traveling through my head. Weird, but true. However, I would never call vinyl a "convenient" medium, but RtoR is even less so.

Some of the expensive tapes aren't that good, either. My old thrift vinyl copy of "Waltz For Debbie" that I got for 50c years ago sounds better to me than any of the expensive RtoR that I have heard at demos.

I suspect most owners of RtoR currently have them for bragging rights, but don't listen to them that much except to demonstrate their system. Some of them ARE the ultimate demo if they are good.

A few years ago, the machines, even the studio ones, were cheap as chips and many were abandoned. There were tons of 7.5ips tapes that they couldn't give away and were just thrown away. Now, as the fashion wheel turns, the big ole expensive RtoR deck is a necessity of the show off expensivo systems.
 

Sal1950

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Vinyl has a much larger and more convenient catalogue of available music for analog. Vinyl records are also pretty tough. I don't mind the minor pop or tick, even like some because it is so dimensional. I can hear them in my surround system going around the room and some seem like they are traveling through my head.
That's the effect caused by vinyls surface noise that doesn't get discussed much today. Funny everyone is ready to throw out ticks and pops as a livable vise of the LP, but little gets said today about surface noise. Unless you have pristine copies of the specialty pressings from MoFi and the rest, the constant swish swish and growling of surface noise is vinyls worst failing (IMO) and was always the thing we were looking to escape back in the day.

Some of them ARE the ultimate demo if they are good.
Maybe very good, but in this 21st century they could hardly be called "the ultimate demo".
That honor would have to go out to the specialty labels doing high data rate digital recordings if you want to demo the SOTA.
 

TBone

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That's the effect caused by vinyls surface noise that doesn't get discussed much today. Funny everyone is ready to throw out ticks and pops as a livable vise of the LP, but little gets said today about surface noise. Unless you have pristine copies of the specialty pressings from MoFi and the rest, the constant swish swish and growling of surface noise is vinyls worst failing (IMO) and was always the thing we were looking to escape back in the day.

It's been discussed considerably, and vinyl noise has often been hyped beyond reality. Please keep in mind that NOTHING about vinyl bothers me more than noise, ticks & pops, nothing ... even the most dedicated vinyl-phile appreciates CD dead quiet backgrounds in comparison. However, vinyl noise can often be radically reduced, by proper cleaning (not just dusting). Also, vinyl noise is further highlighted based on the noise floor capability of the turntable/arm itself. The higher the noise floor, the greater the internal resonance, generally the greater the amplitude of ticks & pops. The very best turntables/arm can sound so quiet, you'd might not know (put this to the test many times) the difference between it, and a digital copy.

If the dynamic capability is there, the odd tick & pop is easily ignored. Rather have a bit of noise invade my reality, than mass compression.
 

cjfrbw

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"Maybe very good, but in this 21st century they could hardly be called "the ultimate demo"."

Yes, I would again qualify as the ultimate 'analog' demo, rather than getting into the scorched earth 'digital versus' territory.
 
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