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Record Cleaning Techniques -- Objectivist Comparison Protocol or Audiophool's Folly?

cjfrbw

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I'd once used LAST rec.preserve, but no longer (although I still have some).

When I see that little round LAST sticker on a used album for purchase, it gives me pause. I have some LAST records that play quite nicely, hundreds of plays later, without much change sonically. However, some are so filled with noise, no further amount of cleaning helps. Also, I've had some funky cleaning adventures with used LAST LPs. On some vinyl, a day or two after vacuum cleaning, on closer inspection, it appears as if an oily substance leaked from the grooves. Many of those required aggressive cleaning in order to achieve useable results.

Applying LAST properly, requires it be applied post a very thorough vacuum clean. Otherwise, the noise may LAST the lifetime of LP.

Yup, I got a nice set of Deutsche Grammaphon completely LASTed with sticker and all. I thought I had scored.

They were nearly unplayable due to noise and I could see gunk scraped by the needle. They were also no longer cleanable that I could tell from any modality that I could use. They were basically junked and I tossed them as casualties to snake oil wishful thinking.

I remember some very expensive contact cleaner that was supposed to be the audiophile's bees knees called Tweek. I left it in the bottle for a year, and some kind of oily, sticky smudge settled out of it. Nostrums for the obsessive.

I barely clean records any more, just brush. I don't think it is such a good idea to invade the surfaces with detergents and solvents unless there is no alternative to saving the record. I think you can remove surface plasticizers with all the "dirt" and make things not so hot for the grooves in some instances.
 

Guermantes

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Along the same lines as the wood glue technique, I've used Record Revirginizer on a few second-hand acquisitions with good success: http://recordrevirginizer.com/about.html

Drying time depends on ambient conditions -- I've waited most of the day for an application to dry when it was very humid (and then there was the next side to do). I think the name is somewhat misleading, though. I wonder if some customers believe it will restore worn records to "original condition".
 

Guermantes

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@Guermantes, thanks for the tip. Honestly, I'm having trouble getting past the name. Sounds like a character out of the Handmaid's Tale. Vaguely distopian, vaguely misogynistic. Or is it just me?

No, it's not just you. I wonder if it is a tongue-in-cheek allusion to general audiophoolery or some off-colour Australian joke.
1*6k7-t4XHg74vJhMfJpDouw.jpeg
 

TBone

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... barely clean records any more, just brush. I don't think it is such a good idea to invade the surfaces with detergents and solvents unless there is no alternative to saving the record. I think you can remove surface plasticizers with all the "dirt" and make things not so hot for the grooves in some instances.

Yes, I once thought the same, limited cleaning. But since I'm always on the hunt for good original pressings (based on so many disappointing newly purchased low DR re-masters) ... cleaning has become a requirement.

Cleaned records also extend stylus life.
 

TBone

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Better to have the mud in liquid suspension frictionlessly than stuck on the grooves. In one case, the stylus easily pushes it aside. In the other, it has to navigate the stuck-on mud deposits. Sorry, but the latter would seem to have higher wear, noise, etc.

The wet-clean methodology would certainly provide way to high a noise floor, for my liking. Removal of the "mud" is my main goal; thus the only way (afaic) to achieve satisfactory results (per my requirements).
 

cjfrbw

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I have always been curious. Has anybody ever demonstrated less stylus wear from cleaned records vs. non-cleaned? Or is it just a surmise (aka sales claim)?
 

TBone

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I have always been curious. Has anybody ever demonstrated less stylus wear from cleaned records vs. non-cleaned? Or is it just a surmise (aka sales claim)?

Wouldn't you think it obvious that dragging a stylus thru dirt and grit - over a long period of time - would add to the stylus wear. (notice no question mark)

Considering the high cost of a good cart and stylus today ...
 

RayDunzl

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Wouldn't you think it obvious that dragging a stylus thru dirt and grit - over a long period of time - would add to the stylus wear.

The guys that do it for a living seem unconcerned about a little dirt or grit or solid walls of granite...

1528397180866.png
 

TBone

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LOL ...

"A kiss may be grand but it won't pay the rental
On your humble flat, or help you at the automat
Men grow cold as girls grow old
And we all lose our charms in the end
But square-cut or pear-shaped
These rocks don't lose their shape
Diamonds are a girl's best friend."
 

RayDunzl

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Fitzcaraldo215

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Everyone focuses on cleaning, and that is important.

But, the biggest, hugest pain of a problem for me was static electricity. In warmer, more humid climates that might not be as big an issue. But, I can recall taking brand new LPs out of their jackets for a first play, particularly in dry winter months, and hearing the static zap plus playback noise already, especially on the B side, which had been in contact with the mat while A was played.

It was basically just airborne dust. Cleaning resolved that, but only temporarily, and the problem soon recurred. Another deep cleaning again with fluids was a pain and overkill each time. The record was free of deep grunge and just had some new light dust on it. Carbon fiber brushes, etc. could not adequately remove it and overcome the static attraction.

So, cleaning is straightforward, but doing that often is no fun when you just want to sit down and listen.

Solving the static problem meant fewer deep cleanings. Wet playing did that for me. It detached the dust from the LP and brushed or floated it aside, with only about 30 seconds to fill and start the LencoClean arm tracking before play. Later, vacuum cleaning with a cleaning solution plus a Last application did pretty well. Many of my frequently played LPs were cleaned only once, Last applied, leaving them less susceptible to static, and they were good for many plays thereafter with just a carbon fiber brush sweep before playing.

If the static problem can be solved - Zerostat gun?, Last, etc. - deep cleaning with a solution and vacuum becomes much less necessary, maybe only once in their lifetime.
 

Don Hills

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In my experience, clicks and pops in low humidity conditions were mainly caused by static buildup on the disc jumping to the stylus. In these cases, raising the humidity around the stylus area suppressed the noise. You can try it yourself - place your open mouth near the cartridge and exhale gently. If the noise reduces, it's likely caused by static.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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In my experience, clicks and pops in low humidity conditions were mainly caused by static buildup on the disc jumping to the stylus. In these cases, raising the humidity around the stylus area suppressed the noise. You can try it yourself - place your open mouth near the cartridge and exhale gently. If the noise reduces, it's likely caused by static.
Possibly that is true. But, I think it might also be the result of the humid air neutralizing the static attraction holding the dust to the record, allowing the stylus to just push it aside noiselessly.

Yes, humidity helps, and I seemed to have fewer problems in summer or on damp days rather than winter. I did install a whole house humidifier on my heating system. Hey, it was an audiophile "need". But, it did not help all that much. A room humidifier or vaporizer would have been much too noisy, as was clear each time I visited the humidor room of my local cigar store.

What a PITA vinyl was.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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Is.

What a PITA vinyl is ... but for those who understand and manage the issues ... rather a few ticks & pops than dynamic crippling.
Understood. Fortunately, like me, one can listen to classical music in digital without the nuisance rituals, and also without the dynamic range crippling and other distortions vinyl itself imposes. Granted, it's not everyone's cuppa tea, but sonically and musically, I am a very happy man, free of the loudness wars and many other issues.
 

Frank Dernie

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Yup, I got a nice set of Deutsche Grammaphon completely LASTed with sticker and all. I thought I had scored.

They were nearly unplayable due to noise and I could see gunk scraped by the needle. They were also no longer cleanable that I could tell from any modality that I could use. They were basically junked and I tossed them as casualties to snake oil wishful thinking.

I remember some very expensive contact cleaner that was supposed to be the audiophile's bees knees called Tweek. I left it in the bottle for a year, and some kind of oily, sticky smudge settled out of it. Nostrums for the obsessive.

I barely clean records any more, just brush. I don't think it is such a good idea to invade the surfaces with detergents and solvents unless there is no alternative to saving the record. I think you can remove surface plasticizers with all the "dirt" and make things not so hot for the grooves in some instances.
Tweek was a hifi exploitation of stabilant 22 contact enhancer which is often diluted to make it easy to apply. I had not heard of the material settling out of the solvent before, though I suppose evaporation could cause this if the lid didn't seal well.
Check it out here, there are loads of other proposed uses too.
http://www.stabilant.com/TechNote02_EN.html
http://www.stabilant.com/appnt04.php
 

cjfrbw

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Wouldn't you think it obvious that dragging a stylus thru dirt and grit - over a long period of time - would add to the stylus wear. (notice no question mark)

Considering the high cost of a good cart and stylus today ...

I really don't know. Although the "concept" is appealing, I have never really found anybody with data on the topic as opposed to conjecture and hypothetical opinion. I guess ASR makes it OK to ask the question.

Records out of the envelope come with some "stamper" lubricant and vinyl has plasticizers to keep it supple. Vinyl without plasticizers apparently is quite hard, brittle, and can have surface crazing.

If you wash these off with the "dirt" aggressively with detergents or solvents, I could imagine a groove surface that is harder and less pliable and even more prone to cause needle wear.

I recall guys who got into the "wet playing" craze saying that after wet playing for a while, their records weren't so hot sounding any more when they were "dry" played again.

Also, the products such as he LAST stuff, don't seem to have much of a scientific provenance, except that they might make the records sound better for a play or three. In the long run, they don't actually seem to have any meaningful preservative function and could actually damage the records. I don't know how typical my experience was, but the LAST records that I bought with stickers were completely ruined.

Audiophiles only play given records once in a while, so session perception comparison could be severely clouded.
 

hvbias

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What a PITA vinyl was.

The weeks (and then months, years) following when I ditched vinyl I noticed my musical enjoyment went up countless fold. Appreciating performances, looking forward to listening to music and so on.

Bizarrely the most interesting thing about vinyl was looking forward to buying it, the used bargains, etc.
 
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