recommended amp/speakers for Bluesound node 2i

[Pedro]

Greetings,

I bought about 6 months ago a bluesound node 2i streamer to connect my old Denon D-F88 stereo hifi, and support streaming directly from AirPlay, Spotify or my NAS server. No need more to handle the CDs manually to play, and my iPod even with lossless audio was very bad compared to the CD audio quality.

The trigger was mostly a matter of convenience, but now I'm wondering if I can/should improve the sound quality of my stereo but in an affordable way.

* What should I replace first in my stereo hifi? The amp or the speakers? All?
* I hear a lot about active speakers in alternative of a set with amp and passive speakers.
* Does it make sense buy KEF LS50w with streamer when I have a streamer? I read the bluesound node has a nice DAC.
* The Acoustic Energy AE1 isn't a better and affordable option?
* If I go for a passive solution what is the amp and the speakers to go? I heard that the difficulty here is to have a pairing both speakers and amp.
For instance, the KEF LS50 passive speakers would require a high end amp.

I would like to hear your opinions and suggestions of affordable solutions to connect to my bluesound node.

Thanks,
Pedro

 

[zjx1017]

I would recommend picking speakers (passive) you like at first, and then you could upgrade your amp for your speakers specifically.

 

[Pedro]

I would recommend picking speakers (passive) you like at first, and then you could upgrade your amp for your speakers specifically.

Thanks. I was already thinking in the power amp (e.g. Schiit Ragnarok 2, xtz edge-2, hegel h90), but i agree that i must thinking also in the speakers. The bad here is that i can’t test it like i would in a local store.
But yes i think i’ll go for a passive speakers.

Thanks again for your comment.

 

[zjx1017]

Thanks. I was already thinking in the power amp (e.g. Schiit Ragnarok 2, xtz edge-2, hegel h90), but i agree that i must thinking also in the speakers. The bad here is that i can’t test it like i would in a local store.
But yes i think i’ll go for a passive speakers.

Thanks again for your comment.

you are welcome
those you mentioned are integrated amps ,not just power amps.Hegel h90 is a good choice but just a bit pricey for its specs compared to others.I have a Hegel H190.it's very neutral and transparent.i couldn't speak for the other two since i haven't lisentened to them.You might want to find out what sonic charateristic you prefer in your system.listening in local store is always the best way to test.

 

[Pedro]

you are welcome
those you mentioned are integrated amps ,not just power amps.Hegel h90 is a good choice but just a bit pricey for its specs compared to others.I have a Hegel H190.it's very neutral and transparent.i couldn't speak for the other two since i haven't lisentened to them.You might want to find out what sonic charateristic you prefer in your system.listening in local store is always the best way to test.

I never heard any of them at live. Only read reviews.

I think the XTZ Edge A-200 is just a power amp. It's very simple. No extra functionalities. No volume control. 2 Inputs (RCA) e 2 Outputs for speakers. And a very nice price (€500). But I wonder about the capacity of the app of the bluesound node 2i streamer to control the volume.
I don't know if this is a real problem.

The ragnarok 2 and the hegel h-90 are integrated amps, and bring with them other stuff like the control volume .
About the amp specifications of these two, I think they are very similar.
But the Hegel has extra features like coaxial and optical inputs where the ragnarok 2 only have usb, and bluesound node 2i only output coaxial and optical ones. This in the scenario I would like to use the DAC of the integrated amp (if better than bluesound internal DAC - I don't know either).
Fortunately I can leave out the DAC from ragnarok (is optional and modular). In the Hegel I can't and the same with another features I really don't want to use like streamer or airplay. I already have that on bluesound node. So i think in Hegel pack price, there are features non removable that i'm paying and probably I rather not. Here the ragnarok approach would be more pay only what you want/like.

About the speakers I will check the KEF LS 50, Q150, Q350 and other alternatives, but for now I have no clue.

Thanks again.

 

[Alexanderc]

I would read a lot here on this forum before making any decisions. There is a review of the BluSound node 2i, the non-powered Kef LS50 speakers, and lots of discussion about what is or isn't audible/desirable/important in components. Most importantly, people can explain why things happen or sound the way they do (mostly), which you won't find in many places.

 

[Darvis]

But I wonder about the capacity of the app of the bluesound node 2i streamer to control the volume.
I don't know if this is a real problem.

I would never trust a non physical volume control, certainly not a bloody app: too much possibilities of a fuck-up which could destroy your speakers.

On the question of choosing the components: the consensus here seems to be that, while there are differences between amps, those are dwarfed by the differences (and inadequacies) of speakers. Therefore my take is that burning thousands in amp with a mid range speaker is a bad allocation of money.

Another thing I'd keep in mind is that other consensus: outside of some exotic super expensive full range monsters, if you want adequate bass, quantitively and qualitatively, you need a subwoofer. Therefore an amp with some form of bass management is not a bad idea.

 

[Pedro]

I would read a lot here on this forum before making any decisions. There is a review of the BluSound node 2i, the non-powered Kef LS50 speakers, and lots of discussion about what is or isn't audible/desirable/important in components. Most importantly, people can explain why things happen or sound the way they do (mostly), which you won't find in many places.

Thanks for pointing that out. I am starting with the review of node 2i which initially seems to me to be more about comparing with other streamers to buy or not, but there is also other information about tests on people who have already tested and shared the experience. And that's what I'm looking for: an ecosystem that works well. Not necessary the heaven without flaws but very nice.

 

[Pedro]

I would never trust a non physical volume control, certainly not a bloody app: too much possibilities of a fuck-up which could destroy your speakers.

I think you are right. I need something physical to control.
And there are very solutions that not cost much if won't come with the amp it self. For instance: https://www.schiit.com/products/sys

On the question of choosing the components: the consensus here seems to be that, while there are differences between amps, those are dwarfed by the differences (and inadequacies) of speakers. Therefore my take is that burning thousands in amp with a mid range speaker is a bad allocation of money.

My first question was what should I upgrade first, the speakers or the amp?
I already read a quite information about amps but it's not clear for me the difference about speakers besides prices. And like wine, higher the price doesn't mean that's better. It may.
What is you advice for a nice speakers that don't compromise the sound? (max €1000)

Another thing I'd keep in mind is that other consensus: outside of some exotic super expensive full range monsters, if you want adequate bass, quantitively and qualitatively, you need a subwoofer. Therefore an amp with some form of bass management is not a bad idea.

I must confess that I never liked the concept of subwoofer. Probably my fault. I was thinking more in a versatile speakers.

 

[Darvis]

My first question was what should I upgrade first, the speakers or the amp?
I already read a quite information about amps but it's not clear for me the difference about speakers besides prices. And like wine, higher the price doesn't mean that's better. It may.
What is you advice for a nice speakers that don't compromise the sound? (max €1000)

I wouldn't change the amp right away. You have one and it's working. You have a nice streamer. In your place all the money I could gather would go to the speakers. I'd just avoid difficult ones.

You seem interested by KEF and they seem to work beautifully on a technical pov. And people seem to like them a lot (I do). And they're not too difficult to drive. For those reasons it's an obvious start
Maybe an R3? You'll find a detailed analysis of them in this site. It's August, so you should find some for less than the advertised price (1600€).
Focal is heavily discounted in summer as well, I have no personal experience with them (other than their Utopia line in someone else house) but they measure very well too and are almost universally loved.

If you're feeling adventurous, and since you seem to be in Europe, Arendal speakers measure admirably and look very sexy (https://arendalsound.eu/1961-series-shop-page/ this is their cheapest line). You can have a chat with their designers, they're exceptionally nice and helpful and don't seem to push you. They'll discuss your room, your taste etc... Same story for XTZ (https://www.xtzsound.eu/product/99-series )

I must confess that I never liked the concept of subwoofer. Probably my fault. I was thinking more in a versatile speakers.

Well, one big advantage of a sub is that you can move it in different places, while your main speakers must be in front of you (otherwise it would be a bit awkward, lol), so you're stuck with the room/bass interaction where they sit, which could very well be very crappy. But with your budget the best bet is probably still to put all the money toward a nice pair of main speakers. You can think about the rest in a year or two (well, that's what I think makes the most financial and sound quality sense).

 

[Darvis]

(to be more precise for Arendal : I've chatted several times with Jan and Thomas, maybe others there are raging maniacs who'll insult you but those two are very sweet and helpful)

 

[Pedro]

I wouldn't change the amp right away. You have one and it's working. You have a nice streamer. In your place all the money I could gather would go to the speakers. I'd just avoid difficult ones.

I have to start somewhere, even if in the beginning things may be not perfect but they must be an improvement, not worse.
Probably I must improve my cables because they appear to be very cheap and light - original ones.

You seem interested by KEF and they seem to work beautifully on a technical pov. And people seem to like them a lot (I do). And they're not too difficult to drive. For those reasons it's an obvious start
Maybe an R3? You'll find a detailed analysis of them in this site. It's August, so you should find some for less than the advertised price (1600€).

The KEF was recommended by a few friends, one of them has the powered LS50 version, but is just that.
I read that LS50 may be more open and cleaner but lacks a bit on the bass side compared to R3.
I'll try to read more here about the r3 but most of the information is based on charts and technical details that I miss.
One thing that is important to refer is that my room is small and I won't hear music very loud.

Focal is heavily discounted in summer as well, I have no personal experience with them (other than their Utopia line in someone else house) but they measure very well too and are almost universally loved.

Me neither. I look for them and there are beautiful ones but at the high end series.

If you're feeling adventurous, and since you seem to be in Europe, Arendal speakers measure admirably and look very sexy (https://arendalsound.eu/1961-series-shop-page/ this is their cheapest line). You can have a chat with their designers, they're exceptionally nice and helpful and don't seem to push you. They'll discuss your room, your taste etc... Same story for XTZ (https://www.xtzsound.eu/product/99-series )

The Arendal 1961 bookshelf are truly nice ones. I must read the review about them.
The XTZ 99.25 aren't so beautiful but in the end it will be a choice based on the quality-price ratio and beauty.

Well, one big advantage of a sub is that you can move it in different places, while your main speakers must be in front of you (otherwise it would be a bit awkward, lol), so you're stuck with the room/bass interaction where they sit, which could very well be very crappy. But with your budget the best bet is probably still to put all the money toward a nice pair of main speakers. You can think about the rest in a year or two (well, that's what I think makes the most financial and sound quality sense).

Definitely I will prefer a nice pair of main speakers with a nice bass like the R3 against other options.

Darvis, thanks for your help.

 

[CDMC]

It would help a great deal if you give some further information:

1) How large is your room?
2) Are floor standing speakers an option?
3) How important is deep bass to you?
4) Any idea how loud your listening levels are?

 

[Pedro]

1) How large is your room?

4 x 8 meters. The wall between speakers and my seat is 4 meters.

2) Are floor standing speakers an option?

Today I have my bookshelf speakers on the ground, but in future I may not.
So I prefer bookshelf size even I use a stand mount.

3) How important is deep bass to you?

I have no issue in particular with deep bass (but yes i like it as I like to hear every instrument when I hear with headphones), but sometimes I read that some speakers requires a subwoofer. I would like instead good main speakers to avoid subwoofer options.

4) Any idea how loud your listening levels are?

Normally not very loud. But sometimes I hear a little higher when I am alone. I have neighbours and my wife is not an enthusiastic for loud music.

 

[CDMC]

So you have a relatively large room with limited power (45 watts per channel into 4 ohms, probably about 30 into 8 ohms). In general, the smaller the speaker, the lower the efficiency. Also, there is a tradeoff between size, bass extension, and efficiency (Hoffman's iron law). Your proposed setup will be limited to about 95db at your listening position, which is not very loud for peaks. Just by going to a more efficient speaker like the Revel F35 as suggested below, you will pick up 5db in max capability with your current amplifier, as well as lower distortion as the multiple drivers have a greater surface area for lower distortion in the bass.

With the foregoing in mind, I would suggest the following:

1) Consider getting a floor standing speaker or large bookshelf which will get you better efficiency over something like the LS50 which is pretty power hungry. In bookshelves you may want to consider the ELAC DBR62 or Revel M16, both of which will have better bass capability than the LS50. Personally, I would take a hard look at the Revel F35 and F36, or in the KEF line Q550 or Q750, or Elac DFR 52. The Revel F36s have enough clean bass capabilities to work comfortably at pretty high volume without a subwoofer for most music. Movies as well as music with deep synthesized bass or pipe organs is a different beast that needs subs.
2) I would skip the Schiit Rangrock and Hegal, they are both a lot of money for what you are getting. For the same price you could get an RME ADI-2 DAC and Audiophonics MPA-S250NC Ncore amplifier. This will give you much more (and cleaner) power that will open up your flexibility on speakers over the Rangrock and Hegal. You also get PEQ abilities. You could also save some money and go with a Topping DX7S with the Audiophonics for less than 1000 euros and put the difference into your speakers.

 

[zjx1017]

. Onl

I never heard any of them at live. Only read reviews.

I think the XTZ Edge A-200 is just a power amp. It's very simple. No extra functionalities. No volume control. 2 Inputs (RCA) e 2 Outputs for speakers. And a very nice price (€500). But I wonder about the capacity of the app of the bluesound node 2i streamer to control the volume.
I don't know if this is a real problem.

The ragnarok 2 and the hegel h-90 are integrated amps, and bring with them other stuff like the control volume .
About the amp specifications of these two, I think they are very similar.
But the Hegel has extra features like coaxial and optical inputs where the ragnarok 2 only have usb, and bluesound node 2i only output coaxial and optical ones. This in the scenario I would like to use the DAC of the integrated amp (if better than bluesound internal DAC - I don't know either).
Fortunately I can leave out the DAC from ragnarok (is optional and modular). In the Hegel I can't and the same with another features I really don't want to use like streamer or airplay. I already have that on bluesound node. So i think in Hegel pack price, there are features non removable that i'm paying and probably I rather not. Here the ragnarok approach would be more pay only what you want/like.

About the speakers I will check the KEF LS 50, Q150, Q350 and other alternatives, but for now I have no clue.

Thanks again.

The internal DAC of Bluesound Node 2i is decent.ofc unless if you want spend over 1000 eur for an external DAC,it would sound a bit better but not that much in your whole system.one advantage of node 2i is it's capable of decoding MQA format.It's very practical if you stream Tidal through the Node 2i.Then you could save a few bucks and spend more on your amp and speakers

 

[Pedro]

So you have a relatively large room with limited power (45 watts per channel into 4 ohms, probably about 30 into 8 ohms). In general, the smaller the speaker, the lower the efficiency. Also, there is a tradeoff between size, bass extension, and efficiency (Hoffman's iron law). Your proposed setup will be limited to about 95db at your listening position, which is not very loud for peaks. Just by going to a more efficient speaker like the Revel F35 as suggested below, you will pick up 5db in max capability with your current amplifier, as well as lower distortion as the multiple drivers have a greater surface area for lower distortion in the bass.

Thanks for this very assertive and rational comment about the needs given the space. Sometimes we get lost and it is good to have a logic behind it, even if we may like it or not.

1) Consider getting a floor standing speaker or large bookshelf which will get you better efficiency over something like the LS50 which is pretty power hungry. In bookshelves you may want to consider the ELAC DBR62 or Revel M16, both of which will have better bass capability than the LS50. Personally, I would take a hard look at the Revel F35 and F36, or in the KEF line Q550 or Q750, or Elac DFR 52. The Revel F36s have enough clean bass capabilities to work comfortably at pretty high volume without a subwoofer for most music. Movies as well as music with deep synthesized bass or pipe organs is a different beast that needs subs.

It seems clear to me that, in your opinion, floor standing speakers are preferable and more complete than shelf speakers. I also keep that registered, but I hardly see this option. It's a matter of space and aesthetics. Still, thank you for your note and advice.
I will check the Elac DBR62 or the Revel M16. I was also considering the R3 in alternative of the LS50.

2) I would skip the Schiit Rangrock and Hegal, they are both a lot of money for what you are getting. For the same price you could get an RME ADI-2 DAC and Audiophonics MPA-S250NC Ncore amplifier. This will give you much more (and cleaner) power that will open up your flexibility on speakers over the Rangrock and Hegal. You also get PEQ abilities. You could also save some money and go with a Topping DX7S with the Audiophonics for less than 1000 euros and put the difference into your speakers.

Thanks again for another options for the amplifier and the use of an external DAC. That's brutal to have many open options. But I will reserve these options for later after testing the speaker. One thing is for sure, I already left out the option of amplified speakers

 

[Chrispy]

What speakers do you have now? (and I'd get them on stands sooner than later) If your wires are adequate, they're adequate....what are you using?

 

[Pedro]

The internal DAC of Bluesound Node 2i is decent.ofc unless if you want spend over 1000 eur for an external DAC,it would sound a bit better but not that much in your whole system.one advantage of node 2i is it's capable of decoding MQA format.It's very practical if you stream Tidal through the Node 2i.Then you could save a few bucks and spend more on your amp and speakers

Yes. It's fantastic the node 2i, and I already tasted the quality hearing with the headphones directly. It's so better than hearing on my macbook.
And it was for that reason that my interest in upgrading my stereo was awakened, because I was no longer able to hear in the speakers/amp that I have today. I just can't.

 

[Pedro]

What speakers do you have now? (and I'd get them on stands sooner than later) If your wires are adequate, they're adequate....what are you using?

It's a pair of columns that came with my old stereo Denon D-F88. I don't have the specs.

About the cables are simple and very basic. Check the image below with the cables connected on the backside of my amp (sorry because it's not a very clear image). The manual say nothing about the speakers.