[Recommendations] Upgrading my old Hi-Fi setup

[Jose Hidalgo]

Hi guys Here's my (very old) Hi-Fi setup:
[Source] Desktop PC with FLAC files --> [USB DAC] Topping E30 Lite --> [Integrated tube amp] Jadis Orchestra --> [Speakers] Elipson Morgane 2
Here's what the Jadis Orchestra looks like: check this short video
And the Elipson Morgane 2: chech this picture

The amp and the speakers are more than 20 years old. I was young at the time, and obviously more of an audiophile than a hifist. I listened to so-called "experts" and bought some snake oil in the process (cables, power strips and stuff). I think I'm a bit wiser now. With that said, my current setup still sounds pretty great. It's an "ear pleaser" that amazes my friends on a regular basis. But when the tubes have to be replaced, it's a bit of a chore: the new tubes have to be matched (the amp has a fixed bias), I need to go to a local Hi-Fi store, and the whole process is pretty expensive.

Anyway, now I'm thinking of selling the amp and the speakers:

• The Jadis Orchestra (especially in gold) is a prestige collector item, and since mine is still in pristine condition, I have checked and I could easily sell it for 1500-2000 €.
  
• The speakers, not so much: about 200 €.

Question is: what should I replace these two components with, for a similar budget? (2000-3000 €).
The constraints are pretty easy:

• I don't believe in snake oil anymore, only on measurements, bang for the buck, and ease of use/maintenance. So, no tubes anymore.
• I only have one source (my desktop PC), no need for more.
  
  
• The new amp could be integrated, or merely a power amp (preferrably with a volume knob and a remote, otherwise I can manage the volume via the E30 Lite and its remote).
• Or maybe no amp at all, if the speakers are amplified.
  
  
• Distance between speakers is about 2m50. Distance between speakers and listening position is about 3m30.
• The new speakers can be either columns or smaller ones on stands. Either passive, or amplified monitors, why not
• For the speakers, up to 35cm wide it's probably OK, maybe even 40, but more could be a problem because of limited space. No problems with height and depth.
• In a perfect world and with no budget constraints, I would buy a pair of cardioid amplified monitors and call it a day. But I doubt I can find those within my budget.
  (Sigh) Last year I was about to secure a pair of Dutch & Dutch 8C's, practically new, for a ridiculous price. Turned out to be a scam.

Any "simple and effective" up-to-date recommendations, please?

 

[staticV3]

ease of maintenance

This regrettably disqualifies active speakers, which in case of defects often have to be returned to the manufacturer.

Though ease of maintenance is a super reasonable constraint IMO.

As always, the best place to start looking for speakers is here:
https://www.spinorama.org/?power=passive&priceMax=2000&sort=score
(I've applied appropriate filters already)

It'd be useful to know if you're willing to integrate a subwoofer or two, which would involve messing around with some additional parameters like crossover frequency, delay, level, and in-room response measurements that you wouldn't have to bother with by choosing floorstanders.

What you'd gain is deeper bass extension at a lower cost.

 

[analogonly]

Analog and tube lover here--i don't think that you can replace the sound from the Jadis Orchestra for anywhere near what you'll get for it. Have you tried some of the online tube sellers for matched sets?

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

@staticV3 thanks, but allow me to clarify. By "ease of maintenance" I only meant the hassle of replacing tubes, bringing the amp to a local store, etc. So it doesn't disqualify active speakers. I have no problem with returning an item in case of defects/issues (but normally there shouldn't be any, right?).

Also, I'm keeping it simple and hassle-free for the moment. So no sub, merely a 2.0 system for Hi-Fi. I already have a sub for my Home Cinema setup which is a different one.

Finally, I have lost touch with the Hi-Fi world since 20 years or so. So even if your Spinorama search is useful (I didn't even know that Spinorama was even a thing ), I'd be less lost with some actual recommendations from knowledgeable people.

One last thing: be advised that prices in Europe can be quite different. For example here a pair of Neumann KH 150 with their stands would be within my budget. In the US they're way more expensive. With that said, I'm not sure if such monitors would be a good pick for me, given that 3m30 is not exactly "near field" (see here, the recommended distance for the KH 150 is 1 to 2.5m only)... Maybe a pair of classic Hi-Fi speakers with an amp would be better. I could buy something like a Topping LA90 Discrete (about 800 €) and I'd still have more than 2000 € left for the speakers.

@analogonly Sure, I can buy matched sets online, even on AliExpress. But AFAIK the amp still needs to be adjusted by the local store every time. Don't ask me why, I wouldn't know. FYI, 4 EL34 (matched quad) cost about 80 €, and 2 ECC83 (matched pair) cost about 30 €. If I could just replace them without unplugging and bringing my heavy Jadis Orchestra to my local store (and paying extra of course), that would definitely be nice.

 

[boxerfan88]

KH150 paired with a subwoofer could work for your 3.3m distance, unless u play super duper loud.

 

[kemmler3D]

You can sometimes find a used pair of KEF LS60 inside your budget or perhaps a little stretched... Nice all in one setup there.

Otherwise have a look at ascend acoustics, revel, Neumann+ subs, Ascilab+ subs, mofi source point, lots of good options in your price range.

Also, Save $120 or so for a UMIK-1 so you can do proper room correction on your PC, that's something that's gone from niche to almost mandatory in the past 20 years.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

@boxerfan88 yes, but like said a separate subwoofer would involve messing around with parameters I'm not comfortable with.
So maybe floorstanders are more suitable for me.

@kemmler3D totally agree about the UMIK-1, if I decided to go the Neumann way.

 

[kemmler3D]

@kemmler3D totally agree about the UMIK-1, if I decided to go the Neumann way.

It's an important tool for room correction regardless of which speakers you end up with, really. Room modes don't care what speakers you have, only whether they are producing bass.

This site has some good tutorials on how to do it, but the simple and free way is basically to use REW to create a MMM measurement at your MLP, generate a correction, and import that to EQAPO. once you know what those acronyms are I promise it will seem pretty easy and the results are very worth it.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

My bad, I thought the UMIK-1 was a Neumann product, not something independent. So yes, I'll definitely get one.

 

[CuteStudio]

I would look into Parametric EQ, and a DIY upgrade of the speakers - if they need it.
Filling replaced with pure wool, thickening it up behind the drivers, maybe felt strips tied onto the basket frame spokes.
Crossover: electro capacitors with fresh poly ones. If it's a cheap (low order) crossover, consider bi-wire posts and an external crossover or bi-amping with an adjustable line level crossover, behringer etc.

I'd keep the Jadis if it was me.

PEQ is easy - use Foobar2000 etc, lots of free players with it.

 

[CuteStudio]

But AFAIK the amp still needs to be adjusted by the local store every time. Don't ask me why, I wouldn't know.

For new tubes they are adjusting the idle bias current, slightly different for each tube.
Without that the push-pull gets out of balance and may spoil the music quality.
Consider a Class a FU50/GU50 based amplifier - cheaper tubes, less adjustment, but lower power.

As there's 450Vdc inside these things, unless you know how to safely handle that I'd let them do it.
Some tube amps have automatic bias, or safe externally adjustable bias, which may be more useful.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

I'm not heading that way, sorry. Not into that kind of DIY. But I know about PEQs, I've even built an app around them, check my sig.

Currently I'm thinking of:

• Replacing the Jadis with a versatile A/V amplifier that would remain musical enough. Thinking of the Denon X3800H (~1000 €).
• Replacing the Morgane 2 with a versatile 5.1 system: 2 front columns, 2 small rear satellites, 1 center and 1 sub.

As for the recommendations:

• There's a sale on this pack: Denon X3800H + Teufel 5.1.2 Atmos system for 2100 € : https://teufelaudio.fr/ultima-40-surround-denon-x3800h-pour-dolby-atmos-107001888?v=107001890 . I just don't know if the Teufel may satisfy me. Any thoughts?
• I have also been suggested a Dali Oberon system, or a Focal Chora system. But they seem to be over my budget (which is ~2500 € for everything).

 

[RPoitou]

I would suggest that you need not go outside France for your needs - an amplifier from Audiophonics and a pair of speakers from Davis Acoustics.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Please make a concrete suggestion. To me Audiophonics is mainly a reseller. And Davis have a ton of models. Thank you.

 

[RPoitou]

Audiophonics Workshop Amplifiers - Audiophonics

Enjoy the best integrations of NCore and Purifi amplifiers at the best price on the High Fidelity market.

www.audiophonics.fr

Ariane 9 - Davis Acoustics

ARIANE ARIANE 9 Enceinte colonne 3 voies Le modèle ARIANE 9 est la plus grande colonne dans la gamme Ariane de DAVIS Acoustics. Créée pour les pièces d’écoute de 40 m2 et plus. Cette dernière mouture reprend les caractéristiques techniques de ses petites

davis-acoustics.com

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Thanks. There are no A/V amplifiers, and I need an A/V amplifier.
Thanks for the Ariane 9. I'll consider it if I can find a suitable Home Cinema pack with it.
Your approach seems to be "Hi-Fi" only, but I'm past that. Not past Hi-Fi, but I need Home Cinema too now.

 

[JeremyFife]

The Denon is a sound choice, probably your best option and certainly worth considering as the baseline for any other comparison.

Does that mean your budget for a complete 5.1 speaker system is 1,500 EUR?
I'm not a HT buff, so please take this as a starter suggestion and not based on personal experience: how about a Wharfedale 12.1 based system? Should be under budget - around 1,000 - and measures well. You can replace the L/R mains with the bigger floorstanders (12.3 I think) if you feel like that.
Hopefully members with more knowledge of HT will chip in too

 

[Marc v E]

Thanks. There are no A/V amplifiers, and I need an A/V amplifier.
Thanks for the Ariane 9. I'll consider it if I can find a suitable Home Cinema pack with it.
Your approach seems to be "Hi-Fi" only, but I'm past that. Not past Hi-Fi, but I need Home Cinema too now.

I heard the Elac dbr 62 with sub connected to an avr in a room measuring about 4 by 5 meters with 2,5 meters listening distance. Highly recommend those.
(Okay, more like stunning for the price.)
(The tower speakers of the same line are apparently not as good as the dbr 62)

Kef is also a great buy if you're in Europe.
Basically all their speaker models are great. Suitable to be placed near a wall due to bass role off.

I personally prefer the cheaper elac dbr 62 up to the kef ls60, which is stunning in a different manner.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Yes, I'm in France which may influence some choices.

• My room is big, 34 m² (366 sqft). It's about 7m (wide) x 5m (deep), with an unusual shape (no two walls are parallel, which is actually a good thing, right? and some stairs)
• Viewing distance to my 85" TV is ~3m, so listening distance (diagonal to the main speakers on each side) is ~3,30m.
• Yes, my whole budget is ~2500 € (more or less). So if the amp costs 1000, that leaves 1500 and so on.

Amp : the Denon X3800H seems nice. It's a little old (3 years) but still up-to-date with the latest A/V standards. And since it's old, it's now at an affordable price. I don't see any alternative, besides the maybe more expensive Marantz or Onkyo. Any thoughts?

Wharfedale : 2x12.3 (752 €) + 2x12.1 (620 €) + 1x12.C (272 €) + 1xSW-12 (613 €) = 2257 €. That's way over my budget (Jeremy, you said under 1000... maybe in the US?). I didn't find any "ready to order" 5.1 packs. Do those not exist?

Elac : same thing, didn't find a 5.1 pack. The DBR 62 are 550 € here (but we need to add the price of the floor stands).

Davis : same thing, no 5.1 pack ? The Ariane 9 are 640 € (pair).

One last thing: I could also keep my Elipson Morgane 2. They're 20+ y.o, but they still sound good. I'd like to change them, but if I do so, I expect a little step-up sound-wise. Otherwise why bother, right? As for the amp, I love my Jadis (the "tube sound" with all those even-rank harmonics is great, makes you forget about the measurements). It's just a little complicated maintenance-wise. Tubes need to be replaced periodically, they can stop working at any moment, etc. I'd love to have some peace of mind, instead of thinking "maybe today the tubes are going to blow up" every time I flip the ON/OFF switch!

 

[Mort]

Is this mostly for home theater AV or two channel music? What kind of music? It's a big area but you didn't want a sub which might not matter depending on the content you are reproducing.