Recommendations to replace Yamaha RX-Z9

[peng]

I'm trying to find a replacement for my 20+ yr old avr as well , reading Justin's post i quickly realized its not gonna happen , at least not with quality, well said Justin, well said...the way you described sifting through those new receivers looking for a good one is exactly what i experienced with my brief attempt a couple yrs ago...Exactly

I have been in this hobby for a very long time and I would suggest you don't just go by someone's experience and you own brief attempts. Today's $2,000 AVR could well compete with 10-20 years old flag ship models due to technological improvements on circuitry design, power supply efficiency, as well as parts and components that offer better specifications. Just because the old gear are heavier and have more complex circuitry does not mean they offer superior "sound quality" than the latest gear. The going by ears way is obviously very important but a more balanced approach would be to take bench measurements such as ASR's seriously as well because many of the perceived "better sound quality" may fade or disappear altogether if all possible bias are removed, this has been proven time in some studies including very reputable ones. The let your ears decide approach alone is just not reliable. I would have to admit though, if it works for you then I guess that's it for you, my suggestion is just suggestion, based on my own experience.

 

[Justin9678]

I think what you are saying is correct and well thought out. I was just trying to offer a story about my own journey. Absolutely test bench measurements are a great tool in guiding us to select an item. Especially when they are done by someone who knows what they’re doing and is trusted by his peers. I have read several of the reviews and test results he has done and I will definitely say he does it right, honest and transparent. I wish there were more people like him that would take time out of their lives to do tests like that. I also agree that we have come along way in a lot of areas and heavier, more complex does not necessarily mean better nowadays.
When I was writing my story I noticed that it was getting quite a bit wordy and I didn’t want to write a novel. Unfortunately the part that I left out may have helped to better clarify what I was trying to say.

I talked about how I experienced the differences between the 4 receivers on my go to system, my theater room. In my game room I have another 7.1 set up. This one uses Klipsch speakers from 2002. A pair of floor standers upfront, matching center, 4 bookshelves for surrounds. These are the inexpensive line from Klipsch, the synergy series. I believe for all seven speakers the retail was about $1800. These speakers have very high efficiency, easy to drive impedance across the entire frequency band and they are not very revealing,detailed, or nuanced. So basically they are the polar opposite of my reference system.

My buddy and I spent the better part of a day hooking up the z9 to the system and pushing it through its paces with multiple forms of music, TV and movies. We then compared that to the Denon X 6700 and the Yamaha 3080. on this system the new receivers gave up practically nothing to the old z9. Sure here and there in two channel mode it seemed like there was a tiny bit missing but it was not night and day at all. Actually in multi channel surround with blue ray we noticed that the new receivers handled the surround environment better. Sounds and effects came through more precise with better accuracy. The channel separation was better.

For me at least, doing research on an audio item that I am looking to upgrade is only part of the equation. I try to always remember not to get too bogged down on individual specifications and reviews, or view them as gospel. I’ve use them more as a guiding light. Because the other part of the equation is how the new piece will perform with all of the variables that come with the rest of the connected equipment and environment. Over the years I’ve bought a couple of really great pieces of equipment that for one reason or another just didn’t mesh well, or gave some type of performance bump that was unable to be translated through the rest of the system. A little example of that would be one of my buddies upgrading his $700 DAC to a $3500 DAC. On his modest system it barely changed a thing unless you really concentrated on what you were listening to. But when we did that same comparison at my other buddies house who has Mark Levinson equipment and Sonus Faber speakers it was a night and day difference. That was really the driving factor in what I meant when I said to do homework but then test it for yourself in your system. With the $1800 speaker package the AVR’s in the $2000 price range would have worked perfectly for the most part. However on the $21,000 speaker package it was a whole different story and a much different conclusion. I didn’t want to get anybody riled up or speak in a way that told someone what to do. I just honestly thought my journey and insight from my experiences could possibly help in someway.

 

[Patbate]

Been reading this topic with great interest, because I find myself in the exact same situation/dilemma. @Justin9678: did you find a satisfying solution? My enthusiasm for HiFi and audio surpasses my knowledge and experience, so I'm reading a lot and this forum seems on of the few where people aren't arguing each other to death in every topic. A few years ago I've inherited a Yamaha DSP Z-9 receiver plus MB Quart 2000 speakers (https://www.hifi-wiki.de/index.php/MB_Quart_2000) from an uncle who gathered a museum worthy amount of HiFi hardware. The setup is connected to a LG 65 C2 oled tv and for music listening purpose a Blusound Node 2i (Qobuz), connected through coax tot the receiver. I'm also looking for 'anything' that can modernize the setup to achieve new audio format compatibility, volume level control with a single remote etc. etc. without delivering on sound quality and exceeding budget (around 1500-200 euros). Of course, the goal is to improve sound quality and if possible, keep the Z-9 in the setup. Since I'm only using 2 speakers and planning to keep it that way, an obvious choice would be an integrated stereo amplifier/receiver that has a HDMI connection. A second option (i think) is to use a pre-amp and connect it to the Z-9's analogue multi ch inputs. Would a modern DAC be suitable for the second option? And for the first option, would the 'retro' NAD C 3050' amplifier be a noticable improvement audio quality wise? And what about the Yamaha RX-A4A? Any comment and/or advice is greatly appreciated

 

[Rab0]

First, thank you to anyone who takes the time to read and offer their thoughts to a new user posting for the first time.

I bought a Yamaha RX-Z9 back in 2002 when they first came out (and I had no kids ). It remains an outstanding piece of equipment. That said, time has moved on. Its primary use case is home theater (50%) and gaming (40%). I have a Pioneer Elite DV-47ai connected to the Yamaha over FireWire/iLink for some SACD/DVD-A listening, though the time I have to do that has shrunk a lot over the years. I have Goldenear Triton 2 fronts with Definitive center and surrounds (left, right, left-back, right-back).

The issue I am having is that as I said, time has moved on. Getting audio from streaming players and from newer game systems into the RX-Z9 has just become too fragile and time-consuming. I have used various HDMI-to-optical audio strippers, and just about every other method to get the audio signal into a format to feed the beast. All it takes is a firmware update here or a streaming format change there, and the setup breaks and instead of just plopping down to watch a movie, I have to spend 5-15 minutes fixing it while my wife and kids watch and wait. There isn't a streaming player out there I haven't tried or a configuration of how to cable this to that within my system that I haven't explored. I am ready to move on. Audio gets delivered via HDMI now, frequently in formats the RX-Z9 simply can't support, and I just have to deal with it.

So, what does this august group recommend? In my reading so far I am leaning towards the Denon AVR-X3700 or AVR-X4700. I realize that almost no matter what I pick, there will be compromises in sound quality relative to the RX-Z9. And frankly, I am not willing to allocate that kind of money to a replacement at this point in my life. It also feels like this year's models of AVRs have hit a very nice point on the video capabilities in terms of future-proofing, with 4K 120Hz support and even some 8K passthrough support. So it is time. I am open to the idea of using the RX-Z9 for its excellent (for an AVR) amplifier and only asking its "replacement" to handle processing and input switching (as a pre-amp/processor, as it were). I got that idea from the excellent review of the AVR-X4700 done by @amirm But, I am open to just about any suggestion. Thank you again for taking the time to read and any suggestions on offer.

I have had dozens of Top of the Line Receivers and I mainly listen to 2 channel music. I have done so many side by side comparisons. My reference receiver for a long time was the Marantz SR-18. I couldn’t find anything that would beat it for years. Then I found the Marantz SR-14Ex. Life couldn’t be better for many years. I put it up against DENON AVR-5600 AVR-5700 (very good). Pioneer VSX-59TXI (no comparison) B&K Avr-505 nice. DENON monster AVR-5805 The Marantz Beat them all. Until. I came across a mediocre Yamaha RX-V2400. I was very impressed with the sound. So being curious I found an amazing deal on an RX-Z9. My search was over. It destroyed everything. My marantz. The 100lb DENON. It is an incredible unit. I used optical in from various cd and dvd units. High end. And it will give you goosebumps. I use Kef 104/2 speakers and a sub. I’m hard pressed to believe any newer receiver can compete with this unit for 2 channel. Imaging is incredible. Power plenty. Never harsh. I’ve also used many amplifier preamp setups but I always go back. I’m sure the surround features have come a long way but musically the best receiver ever made.

 

[DrStranger]

First, thank you to anyone who takes the time to read and offer their thoughts to a new user posting for the first time.

I bought a Yamaha RX-Z9 back in 2002 when they first came out (and I had no kids ). It remains an outstanding piece of equipment. That said, time has moved on. Its primary use case is home theater (50%) and gaming (40%). I have a Pioneer Elite DV-47ai connected to the Yamaha over FireWire/iLink for some SACD/DVD-A listening, though the time I have to do that has shrunk a lot over the years. I have Goldenear Triton 2 fronts with Definitive center and surrounds (left, right, left-back, right-back).

The issue I am having is that as I said, time has moved on. Getting audio from streaming players and from newer game systems into the RX-Z9 has just become too fragile and time-consuming. I have used various HDMI-to-optical audio strippers, and just about every other method to get the audio signal into a format to feed the beast. All it takes is a firmware update here or a streaming format change there, and the setup breaks and instead of just plopping down to watch a movie, I have to spend 5-15 minutes fixing it while my wife and kids watch and wait. There isn't a streaming player out there I haven't tried or a configuration of how to cable this to that within my system that I haven't explored. I am ready to move on. Audio gets delivered via HDMI now, frequently in formats the RX-Z9 simply can't support, and I just have to deal with it.

So, what does this august group recommend? In my reading so far I am leaning towards the Denon AVR-X3700 or AVR-X4700. I realize that almost no matter what I pick, there will be compromises in sound quality relative to the RX-Z9. And frankly, I am not willing to allocate that kind of money to a replacement at this point in my life. It also feels like this year's models of AVRs have hit a very nice point on the video capabilities in terms of future-proofing, with 4K 120Hz support and even some 8K passthrough support. So it is time. I am open to the idea of using the RX-Z9 for its excellent (for an AVR) amplifier and only asking its "replacement" to handle processing and input switching (as a pre-amp/processor, as it were). I got that idea from the excellent review of the AVR-X4700 done by @amirm But, I am open to just about any suggestion. Thank you again for taking the time to read and any suggestions on offer.

If you still love Yamaha:

Most bang for the buck A6A (I recommend DellaSala's bench: https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/yamaha-rx-a6a )
If your ears will really hear the difference between the DAC's for the other channels, then go for the A8A

 

[felixungar]

I inherited a dsp-Z9 a few years ago, 99% of the time its running pure direct driving dahlquist DQ-10s.
I'll stick with it until it dies.
It also makes toast ;-)

 

[10PSPMemSticksForMiku2007]

If you're willing to try a PC-based setup for streaming and gaming, you could connect it to your receiver with an 8-channel analog sound card.