Recommendations for digitizing vinyl

[DVDdoug]

And on the gripping hand, my understanding is that some streaming services allow you to download the material and save it on your local drive. If Tidal/Qobuz do this I'll go that route when the material is available.

I believe Qobuz allows you to buy downloads that you fully-own. Some other streaming services allow you to download copy-protected files. I'm not sure if you can play them if you discontinue your streaming subscription (or if they change their policies or go out of business).

Or of course you can buy MP3s from Amazon if the music is available. I assume they have most of what's available on the streaming services. MP3 is lossy but it sounds a lot better than scratchy old vinyl!

Or... You can record them as they are streaming. Of course that IS copyright violation and a violation of your user agreement and the artist (or copyright holder) isn't getting paid if aren't streaming BUT if you have the album you (or somebody) has paid for it.

 

[Petrushka]

If it's just for basic acquisition... waxwing isn't that interesting compared to much less expensive solutions.

I can’t argue, because I’ve never had one, but I’ve digitized several hundred LPs, and de-noising them gets old pretty quickly.

I thought the automatic click and pop remover software was too crude, so I fiddled with the options for each record. I play some of them frequently, and no one suspects they’re records.

 

[lini]

(...) We have a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo turntable in the den with the stereo (with the Sumiko Rainier Cartridge that came with it) , (...)

Does that stereo sport a tape/record output? If so, you could alternatively also look for a decent, used dedicated digital recorder, that records onto flash-memory-based media and connect it to that tape/record output. Quality-wise even one of the good, very small ones like the Sony PCM-M10 or Roland R-05 would do just fine. With such a solution you could use your already existing vinyl playback setup - and the usage of the recorder would be pretty much the same as with a classic cassette deck. Big difference: Quick and easy content (= WAV file) transfer to the computer.

I'd concur with digitalfrost, though: Using some sort of cartridge/needle with a ridge-type line-contact tip (MicroRidge, MicroLine, SAS) would make sense for the purpose, so you'd get consistent quality during those ca. 160 to 200 playback hours, that you'd need for the task. In fact an MR/ML/SAS tip should even be good for quite a lot more playback hours with hardly any degradation in terms of performance.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[EERecordist]

Welcome to ASR. You can search our forum for digitizing vinyl. And we also have a review section, select electronics then select phono.

You have many good expert suggestions on this thread.

I would add, get an ultrasonic disc cleaner and fluid about $150US, and a batch of new inner sleeves. Clean the discs, digitize them through de-click/pop software, and sell them at a premium. You can easily sell a disc cleaner, or start a local disc cleaning business.

I think there is software to connect your digital library to the recording metadata and make it searchable and listener-friendly.

Report back on solution found and how it worked out!

 

[Mr. Swordfish]

Does that stereo sport a tape/recourd output? If so, you could alternatively also look for a decent, used dedicated digital recorder, that records onto flash-memory-based media and connect it to that tape/record output. Quality-wise even one of the good, very small ones like the Sony PCM-M10 or Roland R-05 would do just fine. With such a solution you could use your already existing vinyl playback setup - and the usage of the recorder would be pretty much the same as with a classic cassette deck. Big difference: Quick and easy content (= WAV file) transfer to the computer.

Yes, that's a reasonable way to do it, if I was only digitizing a few LPs. But I've got a workspace with the computer and other audio gear set up at the other end of the house and If I'm going to digitize a bunch I'd prefer to do it there. I'm currently dubbing off a bunch of DAT tapes and once that's done I'll tackle the vinyl, replacing the DAT deck with a turntable.

Well, maybe I'll get to the vinyl after I transfer the older recordings I made with the Sony F1. Assuming I can find the tapes which should be in a closet somewhere....

 

[Mr. Swordfish]

I think there is software to connect your digital library to the recording metadata and make it searchable and listener-friendly.

I'm using JRiver Media Center for that, and I can't recommend it highly enough. It is a huge huge improvement over iTunes, which I was using before.

 

[AndyMorris]

I've archived a few hundred LPs, both new and second-hand and a couple of crates of 78's that my dad bought when he was a teenager.

Most but not all are probably available on stream services.

But that's not the point. They are my records, they have history with me.

The process of ripping them is a joy in itself. You really listen to them, you feel a connection and you have a recording that is the same groove I listened to 40 years ago, or dad listend to in 1948. Perhaps its the Ikea effect, but its real.

Equipment wise, I don't claim to have golden ears, far from it, but for me a half decent DJ deck, one of those cheap phono/usb ADCs UFO202 sound fine. I replay over a Fosi BT20A bluetooth into some big old Sony speakers, Sounds fine to me. I'd highly recommend getting a deck with a removeable headshell and one of those stylus cleaning gel things AT617a as you needle will pick up a load of crap off old records .

I use Audacity to do the actual rip, as you can see whats happening and its good for getting rid of really massive clicks. Then I export from and pick up in VinylStudio, which does a great job. Finally I use MP3Tag to get the track listing from discogs.

I've managed to get a decent recording of 78's that were in two pieces.

Some records had jumps I just couldn't drag a needle round, so I nicked 2 seconds of the steamers and spliced it in using audacity

If I'm buying new stuff now, I go for the vinyl, I can get the sound good enough, the actual physical thing is good to own and the process is part of the fun.

Enjoy your old records

 

[JeffS7444]

A-T LP120USB has been discontinued for awhile, but I'd expect current models to be a little better: As shipped, the older model had barely functional antiskate, and much of it's impressive heft was completely bogus: A thick steel plate bolted to the bottom cover, with no other function save for making it weigh more. But otherwise, a decent, if plasticky, SL1200 lookalike. Built-in preamp + ADC seemed to work nicely, and I measured decently flat frequency response.

But about that preamp: I ran afoul of it's automatic muting when I replaced the stock AT95 cartridge with an Ortofon 2M Red, which possibly has lower output: With Ortofon installed, the noise floor of the lead-in groove wasn't quite high enough to trigger the un-mute, and I'd miss the first split-second of music. As I wasn't seeing a handy level adjustment, I simply removed the muting FETs and all was good. Not sure why they felt it was necessary, as the preamp is well-behaved during power on/off

I've since moved on to the Parks Audio Waxwing DSP pre, which IMO is one of the biggest-ever vinyl sonic upgrades. Wow, do I ever love it's de-noise, de-rumble and other features. No doubt I could accomplish much the same in post-production, but it's pretty amazing being able to do so in real time. It also has tools to help you optimize cartridge azimuth, and this greatly reduced groove pre-echo for me.

 

[Mr. Swordfish]

Thanks for all the replies, much good food for thought. And after thinking about it a lot, I've come to the conclusion that I've been overthinking it. The Audio Technica clone of the Technics 1200 with USB out should be sufficient, and I found a place that was selling them for $349 instead of the usual $449, and with a 10% discount that brought it down to $314, or not much more than I'd pay for just a phono preamp. Free shipping too.

The online store only had two left, and now there's only one left at that price. Link . 10% Discount code is "Mobile 10" or available by email.

DISCLAIMER: not affiliated with lptunes.com and I've never bought from them before. But they seem legit.

 

[Mr. Swordfish]

In other news, I've done a spot check of the vinyl that I'm looking at transferring, and about half doesn't seem to be available for download anywhere that I have found. For the others, the streaming services don't allow "free" downloads that can be exported to my player software; I'd have to buy the file to import into my library. Whether that's more cost effective than my time to transfer the material I already own is something I'll have to decide on a case by case basis.

And if I'm buying, I'll probably use bandcamp since there's a more direct flow of funds to the artist.

 

[mike70]

I'll point only 2 things:

- Rightly clean the records
- Please (please), don't use 2M Red or ANY elliptical stylus, use ANY microlinear / shibata stylus, with the right setup (vtf, vta, geometry, etc).

Done.

 

[MRC01]

If you have LP albums that are not available on Tidal/Qobuz then I see the point.
But if you find your LP albums on Tidal, why bother trying to digitize them?

It may be more convenient but streaming isn't for everyone and it's not the same thing as having a copy of your own personal records and enjoying the nostalgia of handling the sleeve and looking at the pics/ reading the sleeve notes

Another factor is that streaming services often have a modern reissue/remaster that has been crushed with dynamic range compression and other processing to "make it sound better" . Because of this, in some cases your old LPs might sound better than the same album available on streaming. Also, streaming services periodically update their catalogs so you can lose access to your favorite albums - best to have your own copy of the ones that you expect to continue enjoying in the future.

As for the original question: the advice so far is solid. Use a good quality turntable and cartridge and make sure it's set up right. A 2-point alignment gauge, proper VTA, anti-skate, weighting, etc. Don't skip that setup because it makes a big audible difference. As for how to digitally encode it, you can use a PC with high quality sound card, some of the audio interfaces reviewed here at ASR, or get a CF/SD flash recorder used from eBay. The Tascams are excellent (I own a DA-3000 and previously an SS-R1), though there are other good choices.

It's also helpful to have a record cleaner. Back in the day I used a Nitty Gritty 2.5 FI which was one of the best, though there are other good choices. With some LPs it makes a big improvement.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

I ripped all my vinyl and CDs when we moved 9 years ago. Audacity is a good open source choice. I used DCart software to record the audio, remove noise, etc. It sells for about $70. https://diamondcut.com/ It has a simple utility for splitting a file into tracks and enter metadata. Noise reduction includes separate utilities for impulse noise and continuous noise as well as automated all noise. It includes post production tools including compression/expansion, harmonics addition, EQ, tube simulation, echo, reverb,... It can take an hour or so to complete the process for one record if you want to be hands on. It was developed by a couple of engineers as a byproduct of a job they did for the Edison Museum digitizing records and cylinders. There's an active support forum where the developers participate. They also sell an expensive pro version that can make garbled radio transmissions etc. understandable.

 

[krabapple]

FWIW, here's what I did, which worked great
But NB, I had only a handful of LPs that I wanted to transfer - things that had not yet been officially released on CD. For 200 LPs , step 4 might be expensive!

1. bought a decent TT/cart: U-turn Orbit Custon w/Ortofon 2M Blue
2. Denon AVR phono-in as pre (later, after that AVR died, used a Pyle Ultra Compact Phono Preamp), line out into a cheap Behringer ADC then USB to
3. Audacity on a laptop, 48kHz/24bit
4. to cut declicking to a minimum:
--- on Discogs, bought mint, unopened copies of the LPs
--- used the 'wood glue' method to completely clean (yes, it works)
5. Applied a high-pass filter with Audacity, to the files to remove <10Hz content


Don't obsess over the A/D step...that has been solved, commodity technology for decades
(I'd argue phono preamps are, too)

 

[DVDdoug]

--- used the 'wood glue' method to completely clean (yes, it works)

When I was playing records I used Discofilm which is the same concept (it was available in record stores in the U.S.). It has a sponge pad attached to the dispenser and it applies as a gel that dries to something like tough Jell-O that then peels off easily, taking the "dirt" with it.

...And like everybody else I had (and still have) a Discwasher for everyday use.

...I never heard much (if any) difference after cleaning a record... It just seemed like "good practice" and it's supposed to prevent damage. Most of my clicks & pops were permanent damage that somehow "developed" even though I tried to be careful with my records.

 

[Mr. Swordfish]

Another factor is that streaming services often have a modern reissue/remaster that has been crushed with dynamic range compression and other processing to "make it sound better"

We were early adopters of streaming, back when DMX became available via cable - for about $12/month we got abut 30 channels of music - three jazz stations, three or four classical, various pop, folk, etc.. Both my wife and I were working in terrestrial radio and the time and figured that something like this was the future. This would have been about 1994 or so. Unfortunately, it sounded absolutely like dogmeat, due to the processing to "make it sound better".

Also around that time, I participated in a couple of listening workshops to learn how to hear audio anomalies that crop up with lossy compression. As a radio engineer, I knew how to listen for frequency response problems, distortion, hum, RFI, etc that were common with analog; digital eliminated almost all of these, but bit-rate reduced digital audio introduced another set of anomalies that were not immediately apparent, but once you learn to listen for them, they become quite apparent. I would strongly encourage people not to learn how to recognize these anomalies since it makes anything less than ~160kbs annoying.

Which is a long way to say that I've not been eager to adopt streaming, along with only "renting" the material instead of owning it. Yeah, quality is a lot better now and I should give it another chance.

 

[Snarfie]

Using at the time a Allen & Heath Xone 4D with RIAA phono preamps 24bit 96khz Still operational an dead silent. Besides using the multi channel ADC for digitizing vinyl it's fun making music with it. Used quite affordable these days.

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[Mr. Swordfish]

Don't obsess over the A/D step...that has been solved, commodity technology for decades
(I'd argue phono preamps are, too)

Thanks. That's basically my take too. Makes me wonder about all those expensive A/D and D/A converters.

For the record, here's the setup I'm currently using to "digitize" (in quotes since the DATs are already digital) - I think I've already figured that out. For the vinyl, it's going to be basically the same once the signal is USB.

Sony DTC-790 DAT, optical toslink out -> Hifime UR27 SPDIF Optical to USB Converter -> Dell desktop PC with Windows 11 - > Waveshop software to record and do rudimentary editing.

(Prior to that, I was using a Tascam DA-30, coax SPDIF out -> Mtrack Plus -> computer, but the Tascam stopped working a month or so ago. I was able to get it repaired, but since the Sony is working I'm too lazy to switch it back out.)

I've played with Audacity and WavePad for editing, but if I can do it with Waveshop I keep it there. I've found that both Audacity and WavePad can alter the bits in ways I didn't intend, although some of this might be operator error.

Once I've transferred the data and edited it (top and tail, remove in-between song chatter, sometimes remove the drum and/or bass solos, a bit of leveling, fade in, fade out, and sometimes normalize to -1db) I import it into JRiver Media Center where all the rest of my music library lives.

For mobile use, I have a Sony NW-A306 with a 1tb sd card. Not crazy about this device, but it works and holds lots of material.

 

[DVDdoug]

I've found that both Audacity and WavePad can alter the bits in ways I didn't intend, although some of this might be operator error.

Audacity up-samples to 32-bit floating-point which is losslessly reversible. Most audio programs use floating point internally because DSP is "easier" and you can temporarily go over dB without clipping.

But Audacity DOES dither by default, which means it's NOT "bit perfect" unless you turn-off dither. Dither is added noise that's supposed to sound better than the "natural" quantization noise. But at 16-bits or better and normal listening conditions you can't usually hear dither, the effects of dither, or the lack of dither so it's not a big deal if you use it or not. If your source is vinyl (or almost anything analog) the noise is already "worse" than the dither noise so it doesn't matter, and it can be considered "self dithered".

(I've never used WavePad.)

 

[Mr. Swordfish]

Interesting. I was wondering why anything I ran through Audadity sounded different, even if I didn't make any changes. I suppose whatever they do is supposed to be inaudible, but apparently not.

So far, everything I've transferred is live recordings I made direct to two-track DAT. Most are 44.1k but some are 48k. These are not copies of copies, but original masters, so I'm loath to have the bits twiddled around - I'm looking for a straight copy of the bits in the same order. I'm ok with a simple amplification or normalization, but I only do that to a copy of the transferred file, not the straight transfer. Dithering has already happened, so it's unnecessary to do it again.

As for the vinyl, I'm not going to be so picky. These aren't the original masters and there are usually thousands of other copies out there somewhere, instead of my one-of-a-kind DAT recordings. There are other copies somewhere of some of this but I don't know if any of it has been transferred off the DAT medium.