I would love to see the tested results of the Morphit addon to USB Auio Player Pro. I know it changes the sound dramatically but it would be interesting to see how close it gets to the intended target headphone. In other words, does it actually make an HE400i into a Sundara? Is that something that can be quantified?
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Recommendation request thread
- Thread starter samwell7
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This is a headphone recommendation thread, where we recommend and to some extent compare headphones, so let's not go too far off the main topic.....but there is some overlap in the question. The short answer is No. The longer answer, but more informative answer is here from Oratory:
(@keebz28 , you should do your listening testing how you like, and be happy about it too.....just I'm trying to give you some advice re what I've learned both by "reading around" on here as well as my own intensive (because only been doing it about 1.5yrs) headphone EQ & headphone comparison experience.....and I want you (people) to be able to arrive at your best decisions and best end goals re headphone & EQ choice.....I can be a bit enthusiastic (sometimes dogmatic) about my approach but I mean well....take what you want from it). It'll be interesting to share our HD560s experience, 3 of us (or at least 2 of us) getting the HD560s soon!
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@Robbo99999 I appreciate your input and definitely welcome your suggestion on the testing, i am definitely here to learn from others on what is good and tune my habits accordingly. Definitely look forward to sharing the experience of the HD560s with you and others.
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@keebz28 @mysiak , my HD560s arrived 45mins ago. I've put the Oratory EQ into EqualiserAPO and fired them up on my reference tracks. Instantly nothing sounds wrong, and it's all very well connected with some impressively defined bass. Initial impressions before comparing to any other headphones were exactly what I've said along with a good soundstage....I think it's easier to remember soundstage than tonality, but still quite easy to forget soundstage of other headphones if you've not listened to them that day. Yes, so probably bass definition was most impressive, and total balance very good, resolution/detail was also impressive before comparison to other headphones. I then wacked on my K702 that has a specific channel matching EQ & tonality EQ for that particular unit, based on Oratory measuring that particular unit.....and then I noticed more nuances in and around the edges of female voices, also the presentation of sound was different, definitely more expanded and vocals not as forward but a wider more seperated/layered experience. Bass (& general lows) were definitely more defined in the HD560s and nothing really lacking, just quite a different experience in terms of layering & width (as well as increased nuance particularly around female vocals on the K702)....but there was certainly nothing out of place with the EQ'd HD560s. This was only a quick comparison (45min comparison session), and I've had a few drinks, but there are for sure differences even when EQ'd to the same Harman Curve. I'm not sure it's a totally fair comparison because the K702 of mine has a tailored EQ incl channel matching for that specific unit whereas the HD560s has an EQ (without channel matching) based on 1 unit that Oratory has measured.....but it's clear there are marked differences. I'm not gonna send back the HD560s today, and it deserves a bit more attention and maybe a manual EQ from myself to the Harman Curve with the same bass roll-off points that I have for my K702 to be sure......if it's not far off I may keep hold of it & send it into Oratory to add another unit to his database, and that way I'll get a personalised measurement for this particular unit to EQ from......but that's a relatively big "if" at the moment. It doesn't improve on the wideness of soundstage over the K702, it's narrower......but it might be more accurate.....I should also do some online gaming in a virtualised 7.1 surround sound environment to help guage the positional/locational abilities of this headphone.....but brief prelimary assessments from me is that K702 is superior in soundstage and general detail/nuance, but HD560s better in bass (both EQ'd to Harman of course). The jury is still out though for now..........
(can definitely say it's a nice headphone though without standout flaws, not tried it stock yet).
LATE LATE EDIT: I wonder if the unique sound presentation of the K702 might be to do with the fact that the Harman Research in terms of their development of the target curve occurred with various EQ's of different headphones simulated on the K712, which has the same dimensional earcup design as the K702 - outwardly they look identical (although K702 is angled pads). My point is, maybe the Harman Target Curve is optimised for the geometry of a K712 and similar headphones that don't deviate far from it....deep speculation!! Perhaps more of the HRTF & preference testing is transferred through from the research to the user when using a similarly physically dimensionally designed headphone that was used in the research.
EDIT#2: Did some virtual 7.1 surround sound gaming in BF1 with the HD560s and very impressive, didn't feel confused at all with the sound cues coming through and was very convincing....my best soundstage headphones have always performed the best in this task, so I might have to redefine the K702 vs HD560s soundstage.....could it be that the HD560s is narrower than the K702 but more accurate in it's spatial representation than the K702....perhaps the K702 is unnaturally wide. Fairly short gaming session, but normally would be enough to understand if I was interpreting the 3D soundscape correctly....I think I was. It might be in part due to the high treble feeling a bit more accurate on the HD560s which I noticed "in-game menu mouse click sounds" sounding louder, which are in the high pitched area of the frequency response, so it could just be I'm getting more in-game cues due to more prominent upper treble rather than pure soundstage performance, but I'm not convinced on that point being the differentiator. Further testing required as well as music listening....not sending them back just yet.
EDIT #3: I would wager Amir would give this headphone a pretty solid recommendation, it's a very solid headphone without quirks and ability to do bass.....I would wager that if/when Amir reviews this headphone he'll like it, and probably more so over the K702 if he were to review it (because K702 a little quirky).....even though I'm in the process of deciding on K702 vs HD560s....there's a solidity & dependability that Amir would like with the HD560s that isn't there with the K702 - I feel it in my bones!
EDIT #4 (12th July): after having done some more testing today I'm gonna keep these headphones, my previous assessment stands - ie a smaller soundstage than the K702 but it's an accurate one and it's certainly not as small as the HD600 for instance.....I think the key to the soundstage of the HD560s is that it's accurate whilst being just about wide enough, and this is what makes it a really good virtual 7.1 surround sound gaming headphone, did another gaming session in BF1 and very easy to accurately locate players which in my experience is proof of an accurate/good soundstage, and I think this translates to music listening. The other observation that still stands from yesterday - indeed the bass is very good, well defined & well joined up with the rest of the frequency range (all with Oratory's Harman EQ, not stock). Another point that still stands from yesterday - I think the mid to high treble is more accurate for me on this headphone (vs my K702) when comparing with my anechoically flat JBL 308p speaker - it has the snap up there. It's a solid headphone, and it's possibly more true to the music, it could be my K702's presentation of soundstage is too wide.....it is hard to compare these things though, but for sure I'm keeping this HD560s - it does enough things well & differently to my other headphones to warrant keeping it, it's not a carbon copy of any of my other headphones.
EDIT #5: (13th July): did another gaming session in BF1 and again not confused by sound cues at all, so positional effects accurate. On the soundstage I'm now convinced about what I was talking about in my previous EDIT, that it's narrower than the K702 but I would wager more accurate. During some music listening sessions today it was easy to hear panning effects (in some electronic music, Massive Attack) zoom in a circle around your head or from side to side in a smooth continuous arc (no jarring full right / sudden centre / full left (not that my K702 did that), much resolution instead in position albeit narrower than K702, so praps a bit more concentration required). Another note on music listening today, I heard in Massive Attack's track, Unfinished Sympathy, I heard some things I've not noticed before in that track......ie the low low strings in the orchestra cascade up & down and there is resolution within those strings that I've not heard before - I think this is for two reasons I notice this now: first this headphone has high definition in the bass, but also secondly I think the headphone positioning on your head is very tolerant for minimising bass leakage (proven over on Solderdude's audioheaven website)....and I think this minimisation of bass leakage means that the bass curve you EQ in with Oratory's EQ (for example) is actually what you're experiencing from listening session to listening session, the different parts of the bass are therefore very joined up and I think that enabled me to hear that detail in the gently ascending & descending low low orchestra strings, it's just joined up very pleasingly in the low registers.
(can definitely say it's a nice headphone though without standout flaws, not tried it stock yet).
LATE LATE EDIT: I wonder if the unique sound presentation of the K702 might be to do with the fact that the Harman Research in terms of their development of the target curve occurred with various EQ's of different headphones simulated on the K712, which has the same dimensional earcup design as the K702 - outwardly they look identical (although K702 is angled pads). My point is, maybe the Harman Target Curve is optimised for the geometry of a K712 and similar headphones that don't deviate far from it....deep speculation!! Perhaps more of the HRTF & preference testing is transferred through from the research to the user when using a similarly physically dimensionally designed headphone that was used in the research.
EDIT#2: Did some virtual 7.1 surround sound gaming in BF1 with the HD560s and very impressive, didn't feel confused at all with the sound cues coming through and was very convincing....my best soundstage headphones have always performed the best in this task, so I might have to redefine the K702 vs HD560s soundstage.....could it be that the HD560s is narrower than the K702 but more accurate in it's spatial representation than the K702....perhaps the K702 is unnaturally wide. Fairly short gaming session, but normally would be enough to understand if I was interpreting the 3D soundscape correctly....I think I was. It might be in part due to the high treble feeling a bit more accurate on the HD560s which I noticed "in-game menu mouse click sounds" sounding louder, which are in the high pitched area of the frequency response, so it could just be I'm getting more in-game cues due to more prominent upper treble rather than pure soundstage performance, but I'm not convinced on that point being the differentiator. Further testing required as well as music listening....not sending them back just yet.
EDIT #3: I would wager Amir would give this headphone a pretty solid recommendation, it's a very solid headphone without quirks and ability to do bass.....I would wager that if/when Amir reviews this headphone he'll like it, and probably more so over the K702 if he were to review it (because K702 a little quirky).....even though I'm in the process of deciding on K702 vs HD560s....there's a solidity & dependability that Amir would like with the HD560s that isn't there with the K702 - I feel it in my bones!
EDIT #4 (12th July): after having done some more testing today I'm gonna keep these headphones, my previous assessment stands - ie a smaller soundstage than the K702 but it's an accurate one and it's certainly not as small as the HD600 for instance.....I think the key to the soundstage of the HD560s is that it's accurate whilst being just about wide enough, and this is what makes it a really good virtual 7.1 surround sound gaming headphone, did another gaming session in BF1 and very easy to accurately locate players which in my experience is proof of an accurate/good soundstage, and I think this translates to music listening. The other observation that still stands from yesterday - indeed the bass is very good, well defined & well joined up with the rest of the frequency range (all with Oratory's Harman EQ, not stock). Another point that still stands from yesterday - I think the mid to high treble is more accurate for me on this headphone (vs my K702) when comparing with my anechoically flat JBL 308p speaker - it has the snap up there. It's a solid headphone, and it's possibly more true to the music, it could be my K702's presentation of soundstage is too wide.....it is hard to compare these things though, but for sure I'm keeping this HD560s - it does enough things well & differently to my other headphones to warrant keeping it, it's not a carbon copy of any of my other headphones.
EDIT #5: (13th July): did another gaming session in BF1 and again not confused by sound cues at all, so positional effects accurate. On the soundstage I'm now convinced about what I was talking about in my previous EDIT, that it's narrower than the K702 but I would wager more accurate. During some music listening sessions today it was easy to hear panning effects (in some electronic music, Massive Attack) zoom in a circle around your head or from side to side in a smooth continuous arc (no jarring full right / sudden centre / full left (not that my K702 did that), much resolution instead in position albeit narrower than K702, so praps a bit more concentration required). Another note on music listening today, I heard in Massive Attack's track, Unfinished Sympathy, I heard some things I've not noticed before in that track......ie the low low strings in the orchestra cascade up & down and there is resolution within those strings that I've not heard before - I think this is for two reasons I notice this now: first this headphone has high definition in the bass, but also secondly I think the headphone positioning on your head is very tolerant for minimising bass leakage (proven over on Solderdude's audioheaven website)....and I think this minimisation of bass leakage means that the bass curve you EQ in with Oratory's EQ (for example) is actually what you're experiencing from listening session to listening session, the different parts of the bass are therefore very joined up and I think that enabled me to hear that detail in the gently ascending & descending low low orchestra strings, it's just joined up very pleasingly in the low registers.
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@Robbo99999 I did an hour of listening on my HD560s and i noticed that these are very close to neutral tuning and with a bit of treble harshness that can be tuned down. These sound good without EQ because of their tuning but they come alive for me once I input the Oratory settings into a PEQ filter. The initial impression from these is their lack of instrument separation is evident as observed by Crinacle in his review but they're not muddled. This is specifically evident in vocal tracks where instruments feel left behind and the vocal supersede everything. I must say i do enjoy these on a short amount of time i have had them, these might be stay as my second pair of sennheiser' that'll last me more than a decade.
EDIT: These definitely don't have that tight low end bass grunt that i used to experience from my Fostex T50rp. The bass on the HD560s is there but it's reverberates within the ear cups and that seems to me like an opportunity to add some foam to tighten it.
EDIT: These definitely don't have that tight low end bass grunt that i used to experience from my Fostex T50rp. The bass on the HD560s is there but it's reverberates within the ear cups and that seems to me like an opportunity to add some foam to tighten it.
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Helicopter
Major Contributor
Original Focal Clear clattered when Amir tested it. He has not tested the new MG versions. I would like to know how they do.
The vocals are indeed more forward on the HD560s in comparison to the K702, even when both EQ'd to the same curve, so that is strange - and it tallies a bit with what you say re "vocals supersede everything".....I didn't really think the vocals overtook everything though, but they were more forward, it's strange how there can be such significant differences when both EQ'd to the same curve.....I mean I'd expect small differences, but not of that significance. I didn't hear any issues in the bass.
I am starting looking forward to receiving mine HD560s (ordered them during the weekend). 
So far your impressions are exactly what I was hoping for in terms of sound quality. Now I just keep my fingers crossed that the comfort won't be an issue. I guess I'll see in about 2 days when I get them.
So far your impressions are exactly what I was hoping for in terms of sound quality. Now I just keep my fingers crossed that the comfort won't be an issue. I guess I'll see in about 2 days when I get them.
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I am keeping mine as well, I woke at 4am this morning since i couldn't sleep and had the peace and quite of the house to myself to really enjoy listening to them. The more i listen to them, the more i am enjoying their tuning. These will definitely stay in the stable for a long time, just like my HD555's that lasted more than a decade.
So..I just got mine Sennheiser HD560s, a quick impression:
- build quality and feel can't be compared to Beyerdynamic DT990/Custom One or Fostex T50RP MK3. I realized that I strongly prefer metal headband and sliders. Sliders on HD560s have hardly any friction and they move very freely. The only slight advantage is their lower weight due to complete plastic build. I've read a lot about Sennheiser plastic being very sturdy, but the doubt is still there and I kind of expect them to break at some point.
- sound out of the box is.."shouty", bass is "ok", treble could be a little lower/smoother(? it's hard for me to describe it). In direct comparison to Fostex I like Fostex more.
- Oratory PEQ fixes most of the issues, but bass and overall "smoothness" is still not on the level of Fostex (maybe I'm just too used to their sound)
- "out of the head" effect is very, very nice on HD560s, the typical left-righ channel separation is missing. I could listen to them without virtualization/crossfeed effect, in fact they sound better without it. Tilted drivers might be my favorite feature from now on.
- comfort out of the box - not terrible, but not great either. It's probably too soon to evaluate it as I expect earpads to loosen up a bit. Round profile of earpads is more comfy than the "old" version of HD600/650, but not on par with Beyerdynamic ear pads. If I keep them, I'll buy 3D printed adapter rings and try Dekoni/Brainwavz/Beyerdynamic ear pads (already own them, so no additional expense except the rings). I expect the sound profile to change, but maybe I'll find a "good enough" compromise between increased comfort and not so degraded sound quality.
I will certainly give them more time and more thorough comparison with Beyerdynamic Custom One + Fostex T50RP. I am especially curious how will tilted drivers play along with virtual surround in games/movies.
All in all, not "love at first sight", but they might grow on me.
Edit: kept the headphones on my head for a few hours, comfort didn't change much. :\ I will try to attach DIY leather comfort suspension strap, it will look funny, but could help.
Also I played with EQ, after some tests I prefer more simple change than Oratory's one - more bass + fix of ~3-8kHz region only (I kept these filters from Oratory preset). Other frequencies IMHO don't need any change. With GEQ I can get "close enough", even though PEQ sounds better. For anyone interested I'm using these settings at the moment:
Filter 1: ON LSC Fc 105 Hz Gain 5.5 dB Q 0.7
Filter 2: ON LSC Fc 100 Hz Gain 1.8 dB Q 0.9
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 3230 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 4
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 4450 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 5
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 5490 Hz Gain -3.5 dB Q 3.5
Edit2: I did a comparison with Beyerdynamic Custom One headphones while connected to my TV/PS4 console. HD560s shines here, especially due to the fact that they are open and tilted drivers probably add some "magic" too. Sound profile with both headphones equalized is similar, but HD560s are a touch more clear. Bass is stronger on Custom One headphones, but it's muddy in comparison with HD560s (I will probably need to modify my EQ settings). Music and games sound better on HD560s. Movies are a tie and both headphones can be quite sibilant/harsh, but I am starting to suspect that my Samsung smart TV (or Netflix app) does some shenanigans to the sound profile as almost all my headphones are sibilant when watching Netflix shows, even if I tune down all frequencies above 2kHz by -9dB. It doesn't happen (or I just don't notice it enough to be bothering) with games or Youtube videos/music, or when I test the headphones on my PC.
Long story short - Fostex T50RP MK3 with PEQ stay as my main music headphones, Sennheiser HD560s with GEQ will be my primary choice for TV/gaming and Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro stay as a backup and for times when I need a good isolation (from outside noise or to not to disturb others).
- build quality and feel can't be compared to Beyerdynamic DT990/Custom One or Fostex T50RP MK3. I realized that I strongly prefer metal headband and sliders. Sliders on HD560s have hardly any friction and they move very freely. The only slight advantage is their lower weight due to complete plastic build. I've read a lot about Sennheiser plastic being very sturdy, but the doubt is still there and I kind of expect them to break at some point.
- sound out of the box is.."shouty", bass is "ok", treble could be a little lower/smoother(? it's hard for me to describe it). In direct comparison to Fostex I like Fostex more.
- Oratory PEQ fixes most of the issues, but bass and overall "smoothness" is still not on the level of Fostex (maybe I'm just too used to their sound)
- "out of the head" effect is very, very nice on HD560s, the typical left-righ channel separation is missing. I could listen to them without virtualization/crossfeed effect, in fact they sound better without it. Tilted drivers might be my favorite feature from now on.
- comfort out of the box - not terrible, but not great either. It's probably too soon to evaluate it as I expect earpads to loosen up a bit. Round profile of earpads is more comfy than the "old" version of HD600/650, but not on par with Beyerdynamic ear pads. If I keep them, I'll buy 3D printed adapter rings and try Dekoni/Brainwavz/Beyerdynamic ear pads (already own them, so no additional expense except the rings). I expect the sound profile to change, but maybe I'll find a "good enough" compromise between increased comfort and not so degraded sound quality.
I will certainly give them more time and more thorough comparison with Beyerdynamic Custom One + Fostex T50RP. I am especially curious how will tilted drivers play along with virtual surround in games/movies.
All in all, not "love at first sight", but they might grow on me.
Edit: kept the headphones on my head for a few hours, comfort didn't change much. :\ I will try to attach DIY leather comfort suspension strap, it will look funny, but could help.
Also I played with EQ, after some tests I prefer more simple change than Oratory's one - more bass + fix of ~3-8kHz region only (I kept these filters from Oratory preset). Other frequencies IMHO don't need any change. With GEQ I can get "close enough", even though PEQ sounds better. For anyone interested I'm using these settings at the moment:
Filter 1: ON LSC Fc 105 Hz Gain 5.5 dB Q 0.7
Filter 2: ON LSC Fc 100 Hz Gain 1.8 dB Q 0.9
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 3230 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 4
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 4450 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 5
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 5490 Hz Gain -3.5 dB Q 3.5
Edit2: I did a comparison with Beyerdynamic Custom One headphones while connected to my TV/PS4 console. HD560s shines here, especially due to the fact that they are open and tilted drivers probably add some "magic" too. Sound profile with both headphones equalized is similar, but HD560s are a touch more clear. Bass is stronger on Custom One headphones, but it's muddy in comparison with HD560s (I will probably need to modify my EQ settings). Music and games sound better on HD560s. Movies are a tie and both headphones can be quite sibilant/harsh, but I am starting to suspect that my Samsung smart TV (or Netflix app) does some shenanigans to the sound profile as almost all my headphones are sibilant when watching Netflix shows, even if I tune down all frequencies above 2kHz by -9dB. It doesn't happen (or I just don't notice it enough to be bothering) with games or Youtube videos/music, or when I test the headphones on my PC.
Long story short - Fostex T50RP MK3 with PEQ stay as my main music headphones, Sennheiser HD560s with GEQ will be my primary choice for TV/gaming and Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro stay as a backup and for times when I need a good isolation (from outside noise or to not to disturb others).
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I second you on how much i loved my Fostex T50rp before they broke, and their sound signature is stuck to my head for a bit until it gets rinsed out. Definitely miss the T50rp's and feel the need to buy another pair soon.So..I just got mine Sennheiser HD560s, a quick impression:
- build quality and feel can't be compared to Beyerdynamic DT990/Custom One or Fostex T50RP MK3. I realized that I strongly prefer metal headband and sliders. Sliders on HD560s have hardly any friction and they move very freely. The only slight advantage is their lower weight due to complete plastic build. I've read a lot about Sennheiser plastic being very sturdy, but the doubt is still there and I kind of expect them to break at some point.
- sound out of the box is.."shouty", bass is "ok", treble could be a little lower/smoother(? it's hard for me to describe it). In direct comparison to Fostex I like Fostex more.
- Oratory PEQ fixes most of the issues, but bass and overall "smoothness" is still not on the level of Fostex (maybe I'm just too used to their sound)
- "out of the head" effect is very, very nice on HD560s, the typical left-righ channel separation is missing. I could listen to them without virtualization/crossfeed effect, in fact they sound better without it. Tilted drivers might be my favorite feature from now on.
- comfort out of the box - not terrible, but not great either. It's probably too soon to evaluate it as I expect earpads to loosen up a bit. Round profile of earpads is more comfy than the "old" version of HD600/650, but not on par with Beyerdynamic ear pads. If I keep them, I'll buy 3D printed adapter rings and try Dekoni/Brainwavz/Beyerdynamic ear pads (already own them, so no additional expense except the rings). I expect the sound profile to change, but maybe I'll find a "good enough" compromise between increased comfort and not so degraded sound quality.
I will certainly give them more time and more thorough comparison with Beyerdynamic Custom One + Fostex T50RP. I am especially curious how will tilted drivers play along with virtual surround in games/movies.
All in all, not "love at first sight", but they might grow on me.
Note to readers: this is a headphone recommendation thread, so pay attention to the first post in this thread by @samwell7 ......don't let our detailed HD560s listening experiences derail you from the purpose of this thread......yes our/your experiences are relevant because we want to hear how the recommendations turn out, but I want to reiterate that this is a headphone recommendation thread.
Here I come again.. As my company is slowly preparing for opening its offices (quite funny planning with another wave coming, but that's another story), I will be forced to commute again, hence looking for a new pair of headphones. My primary choice is IEMs, which I have plenty of, but sometimes I just can't wear them for a couple of days due to occasional ear swelling/ache (nothing serious, just IEMs are not comfortable then).
Country: Europe (no drop or too exotic headphones please)
Budget: 200 EUR (preferring a new pair due to warranty)
Form factor: fully closed, smaller/flush form factor, over ear ("borderline between over and on ear" is fine, fully "on ear" not)
Use case: casual listening during commuting, good sound isolation is a must, but passive is enough
Source information: just a 3.5mm jack on a smartphone, in the worst case I could hook up Apple USB-C DAC
Things that are important to you: comfort (I expect that they won't be on par with standard "big" headphones though), availability and low price of replacement pads, detachable cable, I don't mind to EQ the headphones. I don't care if headphones are with ANC or bluetooth with DSP, but they must be working with the cable in the same way as over bluetooth (some headphones deactivate ANC/DSP with wired connection) + user/easily replaceable battery is a plus, but I don't keep my hopes high for this feature. Headphones MUST work with thin armed glasses.
Your preferred sound signature/other headphones you've tried and liked/disliked: Marshall MID = OK sound after EQ, but get uncomfortable quite shortly being on ear and me wearing glasses. Marshall Monitor = OK sound after EQ, they sit flush with my head, don't loose seal with my glasses and don't look ridiculous. I really like them, but earpads started to flake and my attempts for replacement with 3rd party options failed - leather pads loose seal with any head movement. Genuine pads seem to be unavailable. I tried AKG K371 which I found not working with my glasses, otherwise would be my number one choice.
What I consider:
Audio-Technica ATH-M50x - I keep reading mixed reports about their comfort and design is a little bit off putting + they could be smaller
Beyerdynamic DT240 pro - not too many reviews/experiences available, genuine earpads not really available (Beyerdynamic doesn't ship to my country)
JBL Live/Tune/Club - I am frankly lost in all their models, there is no explanation about difference between them. I wait for new products coming out in August. Also no idea if it's possible to buy new earpads easily, quick search didn't bring any hits.
Sennheiser Momentum over ear (v1 or v2) - they popup occasionally used or "new old stock". Love their design, along with Marshall Monitor I considered them as the nicest looking headphones for on the go. Not important, but kind of important. Sound per reviews isn't really great though.
As usual, any ideas are welcome.
Edit: just got info from Marshall, they do not have spare earpads available and it's unclear if they will have them, like ever. I was offered a 20% discount to buy new headphones on their site - they have only BT model costing almost 300 EUR. This is ridiculous, all I need is a set of earpads worth 10 EUR. It's beyond my comprehension that some companies produce headphones out of high quality materials which can last many years, but they are not willing to keep stock of spare parts when it's very clear that they need regular replacing. I will make sure to not support such companies with my money anymore.
As my company is slowly preparing for opening its offices (quite funny planning with another wave coming, but that's another story), I will be forced to commute again, hence looking for a new pair of headphones. My primary choice is IEMs, which I have plenty of, but sometimes I just can't wear them for a couple of days due to occasional ear swelling/ache (nothing serious, just IEMs are not comfortable then).Country: Europe (no drop or too exotic headphones please)
Budget: 200 EUR (preferring a new pair due to warranty)
Form factor: fully closed, smaller/flush form factor, over ear ("borderline between over and on ear" is fine, fully "on ear" not)
Use case: casual listening during commuting, good sound isolation is a must, but passive is enough
Source information: just a 3.5mm jack on a smartphone, in the worst case I could hook up Apple USB-C DAC
Things that are important to you: comfort (I expect that they won't be on par with standard "big" headphones though), availability and low price of replacement pads, detachable cable, I don't mind to EQ the headphones. I don't care if headphones are with ANC or bluetooth with DSP, but they must be working with the cable in the same way as over bluetooth (some headphones deactivate ANC/DSP with wired connection) + user/easily replaceable battery is a plus, but I don't keep my hopes high for this feature. Headphones MUST work with thin armed glasses.
Your preferred sound signature/other headphones you've tried and liked/disliked: Marshall MID = OK sound after EQ, but get uncomfortable quite shortly being on ear and me wearing glasses. Marshall Monitor = OK sound after EQ, they sit flush with my head, don't loose seal with my glasses and don't look ridiculous. I really like them, but earpads started to flake and my attempts for replacement with 3rd party options failed - leather pads loose seal with any head movement. Genuine pads seem to be unavailable. I tried AKG K371 which I found not working with my glasses, otherwise would be my number one choice.
What I consider:
Audio-Technica ATH-M50x - I keep reading mixed reports about their comfort and design is a little bit off putting + they could be smaller
Beyerdynamic DT240 pro - not too many reviews/experiences available, genuine earpads not really available (Beyerdynamic doesn't ship to my country)
JBL Live/Tune/Club - I am frankly lost in all their models, there is no explanation about difference between them. I wait for new products coming out in August. Also no idea if it's possible to buy new earpads easily, quick search didn't bring any hits.
Sennheiser Momentum over ear (v1 or v2) - they popup occasionally used or "new old stock". Love their design, along with Marshall Monitor I considered them as the nicest looking headphones for on the go. Not important, but kind of important.
Sound per reviews isn't really great though.As usual, any ideas are welcome.
Edit: just got info from Marshall, they do not have spare earpads available and it's unclear if they will have them, like ever. I was offered a 20% discount to buy new headphones on their site - they have only BT model costing almost 300 EUR. This is ridiculous, all I need is a set of earpads worth 10 EUR. It's beyond my comprehension that some companies produce headphones out of high quality materials which can last many years, but they are not willing to keep stock of spare parts when it's very clear that they need regular replacing. I will make sure to not support such companies with my money anymore.
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Budget: ~$50-75US
Form factor: Over ear, open back.
Use case: Casual listening to music (mostly Americana, rock and some pop, jazz) and watching videos.
Source information: Portable devices. I also have Qudelix 5K, but prefer something that doesn't need an amp.
Things that are important to you: Something of at least average durability.
Your preferred sound signature/other headphones you've tried and liked/disliked: I'm happy with my ATH-m40x. I'm looking for open-back headphones because the ATH-m40x isolate too much for casual use and cut down my awareness of my surroundings.
Anything else you feel might be relevant: I'd like something that won't be challenging to EQ, but doesn't need EQ.
Thanks!
Form factor: Over ear, open back.
Use case: Casual listening to music (mostly Americana, rock and some pop, jazz) and watching videos.
Source information: Portable devices. I also have Qudelix 5K, but prefer something that doesn't need an amp.
Things that are important to you: Something of at least average durability.
Your preferred sound signature/other headphones you've tried and liked/disliked: I'm happy with my ATH-m40x. I'm looking for open-back headphones because the ATH-m40x isolate too much for casual use and cut down my awareness of my surroundings.
Anything else you feel might be relevant: I'd like something that won't be challenging to EQ, but doesn't need EQ.
Thanks!
Can't edit my post anymore, but just wanted to let all interested know that I fixed the comfort issue. I've just got 3D printed adapters so I could attach Dekoni elite velour pads (previously for Beyerdynamic DT990, but they stretched to oval shape easily). Comfort went from let's say 7/10 to probably 10/10. As a bonus, I can't hear any more squeaking with my head movements - Sennheiser pads use some "subpar" velour which squeaks when rubbed against my glasses' arms and frankly is no where near the comfort and look of Dekoni. Another plus side is that they isolate outside noise more, yet they keep the "open feeling". Sound wise I hear more bass and a little less treble sharpness, which I consider a positive change again. I am very happy now and have exactly what I was looking for.So..I just got mine Sennheiser HD560s, a quick impression:
- build quality and feel can't be compared to Beyerdynamic DT990/Custom One or Fostex T50RP MK3. I realized that I strongly prefer metal headband and sliders. Sliders on HD560s have hardly any friction and they move very freely. The only slight advantage is their lower weight due to complete plastic build. I've read a lot about Sennheiser plastic being very sturdy, but the doubt is still there and I kind of expect them to break at some point.
- sound out of the box is.."shouty", bass is "ok", treble could be a little lower/smoother(? it's hard for me to describe it). In direct comparison to Fostex I like Fostex more.
- Oratory PEQ fixes most of the issues, but bass and overall "smoothness" is still not on the level of Fostex (maybe I'm just too used to their sound)
- "out of the head" effect is very, very nice on HD560s, the typical left-righ channel separation is missing. I could listen to them without virtualization/crossfeed effect, in fact they sound better without it. Tilted drivers might be my favorite feature from now on.
- comfort out of the box - not terrible, but not great either. It's probably too soon to evaluate it as I expect earpads to loosen up a bit. Round profile of earpads is more comfy than the "old" version of HD600/650, but not on par with Beyerdynamic ear pads. If I keep them, I'll buy 3D printed adapter rings and try Dekoni/Brainwavz/Beyerdynamic ear pads (already own them, so no additional expense except the rings). I expect the sound profile to change, but maybe I'll find a "good enough" compromise between increased comfort and not so degraded sound quality.
I will certainly give them more time and more thorough comparison with Beyerdynamic Custom One + Fostex T50RP. I am especially curious how will tilted drivers play along with virtual surround in games/movies.
All in all, not "love at first sight", but they might grow on me.
Edit: kept the headphones on my head for a few hours, comfort didn't change much. :\ I will try to attach DIY leather comfort suspension strap, it will look funny, but could help.
Also I played with EQ, after some tests I prefer more simple change than Oratory's one - more bass + fix of ~3-8kHz region only (I kept these filters from Oratory preset). Other frequencies IMHO don't need any change. With GEQ I can get "close enough", even though PEQ sounds better. For anyone interested I'm using these settings at the moment:
Filter 1: ON LSC Fc 105 Hz Gain 5.5 dB Q 0.7
Filter 2: ON LSC Fc 100 Hz Gain 1.8 dB Q 0.9
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 3230 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 4
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 4450 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 5
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 5490 Hz Gain -3.5 dB Q 3.5
Edit2: I did a comparison with Beyerdynamic Custom One headphones while connected to my TV/PS4 console. HD560s shines here, especially due to the fact that they are open and tilted drivers probably add some "magic" too. Sound profile with both headphones equalized is similar, but HD560s are a touch more clear. Bass is stronger on Custom One headphones, but it's muddy in comparison with HD560s (I will probably need to modify my EQ settings). Music and games sound better on HD560s. Movies are a tie and both headphones can be quite sibilant/harsh, but I am starting to suspect that my Samsung smart TV (or Netflix app) does some shenanigans to the sound profile as almost all my headphones are sibilant when watching Netflix shows, even if I tune down all frequencies above 2kHz by -9dB. It doesn't happen (or I just don't notice it enough to be bothering) with games or Youtube videos/music, or when I test the headphones on my PC.
Long story short - Fostex T50RP MK3 with PEQ stay as my main music headphones, Sennheiser HD560s with GEQ will be my primary choice for TV/gaming and Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro stay as a backup and for times when I need a good isolation (from outside noise or to not to disturb others).
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Oh man, this is a tough one. Hard to find good open back at this price range because virtually the whole market at this price range seems to be closed backs. I would raise up the budget to around $100 and get Sennheiser HD 559. They're not hard to EQ and the stock sound is usually very good on most Sennheiser headphones without Eq.
I found this on Crinacle, but Oratory not measured:
That's not the Harman Target pictured (as you have to pay to display that), but that's lifted in the sub 1kHz area vs Harman or subdued in the treble (depending on how you picture the discrepancy). It's not a nasty frequency response though. I have nothing on the recommendations in this bracket though, could be a good recommendation. You could quite easily eyeball a Low Shelf cut at 1kHz to balance out the tonality or conversely a High Shelf boost from 1kHz to sort out general tonality. I've definitely seen worse frequency responses and don't have other recommendations, but thought I'd post any measurements of the 559 I could find.
EDIT: here's a review from solderdude I found for some additional info, note done on a flat plate so the measurements look different to what we're used to:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd559/
EDIT#2: it's a tough bracket to recommend this lower price range end.
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