Recommendation of headphone amplifier with measurements as good as Topping but more powerful

[LETRA]

Hello everyone. I am scanning the forum in search of a headphone amp that is as good in measurements as my Topping DX9 but has more power. I want to use it with high-demanding headphones of the T+A Solitaire P, Hifiman Susvara or Immanis type, but without losing the clarity and transparency of the Topping. I recently bought a Flux Mentor (good review and measurements on ASR https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...inside-pictures-and-a-few-measurements.53804/ ) and have been using them with a Solitaire P and have not been convinced at all. The sound is good, but it's much better with the Topping DX9, which I just find lacks the power to drive these Solitaire P headphones. Everything sounds better with my DX9 and the Hifiman HE1000 Stealth, but I don't want to give up trying headphones that require a more powerful amp. Is there an option? What is the most powerful headphone amp at the top of the measurements? Thanks for your help.

 

[RayDunzl]

The sound is good, but it's much better with the Topping DX9, which I just find lacks the power to drive these Solitaire P headphones.

Solitaire P

Max Power:

Topping DX9

Are you using the Balanced Output?

Or the High Gain unbalanced?

Or what?

The spec for the Topping says it should probably be able to smoke your phones with the high gain balanced output.

(voltage corrected for RMS of the peak to peak voltage)

 

[LETRA]

Thanks for your help. Yes, I am using XLR, but it still doesn't uncover their full potential. The Solitaire P's are sold as a kind of Susvara, but easy to drive even by a DAP, but they don't really extract the most out of them, something I do get with the DX9 and HE1000 Stealth's. Connecting the Solitaires to the Flux Mentor there is more power, more technicality, more soundstage and dynamics, but the sound is less clear and transparent than on the Topping. So I would like to get something that is as good in measurements as the Topping but has power to drive the most demanding headphones.

 

[RayDunzl]

My reply above modified a little...

 

[LETRA]

The calculator tells me that the Topping DX9 would have about 16.6168500V total RMS in dual channel (8'3V RMS per channel). And Flux Mentor would be at 22.4V RMS total (11.2W RMS per channel). I would look for something with the best measurements, but that could reach at least that 22V RMS. There doesn't seem to be any.

 

[staticV3]

The calculator tells me that the Topping DX9 would have about 16.6168500V total RMS in dual channel (8'3V RMS per channel). And Flux Mentor would be at 22.4V RMS total (11.2W RMS per channel). I would look for something with the best measurements, but that could reach at least that 22V RMS. There doesn't seem to be any.

View attachment 441654

You're confusing Watts and Volts.

Also, V RMS do not add between channels.
8.3Vrms per channel does not become 16.6Vrms total.

Here's the Maximum output power vs load for both Amps:


And here's what that translates to in terms of perceived loudness:


However, I can tell you right now that what you perceive as "more power, more technicality, more soundstage and dynamics" out of the Mentor is not a matter of available output power and as such, replacing the DX9 with an even more powerful Amp will not get you closer to that sound.

What you're hearing is either a nonlinearity in the Mentor that's not present in the DX9, or simple confirmation/loudness bias due to a lack of controls while comparing.

With the help of a basic $10-15 multimeter, you'd find that you're likely using less than 10% of the available output power of your Amps.

With the same multimeter you can perform precise level matching to remove loudness bias, though you'd still have to listen blindly to exclude bias altogether.

 

[LETRA]

Ok. I don't fully understand the technical underpinnings of all this, but I understand what you're telling me. In any case in the measurements that have been made of the DX9 and the Flux Mentor are better for the Topping, except that of the RMS power. Is there no headphone amplifier on the market that has as good measurements as the Topping and yet is more powerful? I'm sure from all the opinions I've read on the internet, even on ASR, that headphones like Susvara or Immanis need more powerful amps than the DX9 to sound even better.

 

[staticV3]

I'm sure from all the opinions I've read on the internet, even on ASR, that headphones like Susvara or Immanis need more powerful amps than the DX9 to sound even better.

Nonsense.

 

[DVDdoug]

from all the opinions I've read on the internet

More power/voltage makes the headphones louder. That's it. (Up to the point where the amp or headphones distort. Then non-linear things happen.)

If you don't turn it up and use the power, a more powerful amplifier doesn't make any difference. If you can turn-up the volume louder than you normally listen and you don't hear distortion, more power won't change anything.

But going louder can cause different perceptions, including the fact that as you turn-up the volume it sounds like you've turned-up the bass even more and when you turn-down the volume it sounds like you've turned-down the bass.

 

[iGmole]

More power/voltage makes the headphones louder. That's it. (Up to the point where the amp or headphones distort. Then non-linear things happen.)

If you don't turn it up and use the power, a more powerful amplifier doesn't make any difference. If you can turn-up the volume louder than you normally listen and you don't hear distortion, more power won't change anything.

But going louder can cause different perceptions, including the fact that as you turn-up the volume it sounds like you've turned-up the bass even more and when you turn-down the volume it sounds like you've turned-down the bass.

Yup. This is what seems to confuse people. Headroom does not have a sound. Assuming two transparent amps with different power ratings the signal will be the same if you stay (when comparing the signals at the same level) within the clean performance envelope of the less powerful amp.

 

[Jimster480]

Yup. This is what seems to confuse people. Headroom does not have a sound. Assuming two transparent amps with different power ratings the signal will be the same if you stay (when comparing the signals at the same level) within the clean performance envelope of the less powerful amp.

I found before that there is both current and wattage. There were a couple headphone amps that have a spec of a certain amount of wattage; but my Aeon (14 ohm) essentially was missing all bass while using that amp. So something with more current was needed to make the headphone come to life. This is also part of why Amir started testing headphone amps at 50mv output, to see where they performed on IEMs and other sensitive headphones. Since full output power can be deceiving since none of us should be listening to our amps at MAX volume.
Today though most amps have huge power output ratings and deliver plenty of current for even low impedance planar headphones.

 

[Headphoner]

I found before that there is both current and wattage. There were a couple headphone amps that have a spec of a certain amount of wattage; but my Aeon (14 ohm) essentially was missing all bass while using that amp. So something with more current was needed to make the headphone come to life. This is also part of why Amir started testing headphone amps at 50mv output, to see where they performed on IEMs and other sensitive headphones. Since full output power can be deceiving since none of us should be listening to our amps at MAX volume.
Today though most amps have huge power output ratings and deliver plenty of current for even low impedance planar headphones.

If you hear them clipping it could be low current, tube amps especially

 

[Jimster480]

If you hear them clipping it could be low current, tube amps especially

It wouldn't sound like the clipping I am used to hearing. The bass was just absent entirely. Which is what happens when you plug a headphone into an amp that doesn't have enough power for it. However the amp actually did have enough power and could handle headphones that have even 600Ohm without a problem to very loud volumes.

 

[Headphoner]

It wouldn't sound like the clipping I am used to hearing. The bass was just absent entirely. Which is what happens when you plug a headphone into an amp that doesn't have enough power for it. However the amp actually did have enough power and could handle headphones that have even 600Ohm without a problem to very loud volumes.

I've experienced the same, output impedance of the amp can cause weird issues too. I have a 30 ohm tube amp that will absolutely ruin the sound of planars, the control is flabby, dynamics non-existent. It could be because it maxes at 3.5 vrms but I've read that impedance mismatch can cause signal reflection and inconsistent current delivery

 

[jkim]

Ok. I don't fully understand the technical underpinnings of all this, but I understand what you're telling me. In any case in the measurements that have been made of the DX9 and the Flux Mentor are better for the Topping, except that of the RMS power. Is there no headphone amplifier on the market that has as good measurements as the Topping and yet is more powerful? I'm sure from all the opinions I've read on the internet, even on ASR, that headphones like Susvara or Immanis need more powerful amps than the DX9 to sound even better.

You need to change what you assume. What is lacking here is NOT power. The Topping DX9 can provide more than enough power for your headphones. Have you been EQ'ing the headphones? If not, try it.