Recommendation of a AK4499EX-Based DAC?

[Kiko1974]

I own an SMSL DO300 EX that uses the AKM AK4191plus one AK4499 EX and I LOVE the sound of It, despite using only ONE AK4499 EX and not two.
I have a question regarding this chipset combination: there's a DSD filter on the configuration menu, Wide and Narrow. I guess Wide plays DSD full range, ultrasonic noise and all, and Narrow will cut off higher frequencies to avoid ultrasonic noise to get to the amp and speakers that may cause some distorsion. But does anynody know at what frequency does the Narrow filter cuts off?

 

[voodooless]

I own an SMSL DO300 EX that uses the AKM AK4191plus one AK4499 EX and I LOVE the sound of It, despite using only ONE AK4499 EX and not two.
I have a question regarding this chipset combination: there's a DSD filter on the configuration menu, Wide and Narrow. I guess Wide plays DSD full range, ultrasonic noise and all, and Narrow will cut off higher frequencies to avoid ultrasonic noise to get to the amp and speakers that may cause some distorsion. But does anynody know at what frequency does the Narrow filter cuts off?

That probably relates to this:

 

[Kiko1974]

That probably relates to this:
View attachment 361068

I'm afraid I don't understand this frequency chart. Maybe the first value, "DSDD" means "DSD Direct", that is the non processing DSD that's available on the configuration menu. This IS just a guess. But the rest of the values, no idea.

 

[voodooless]

I'm afraid I don't understand this frequency chart. Maybe the first value, "DSDD" means "DSD Direct", that is the non processing DSD that's available on the configuration menu. This IS just a guess. But the rest of the values, no idea.

I don't know what DSDD means, the datasheet doesn't tell you When 0, it's in "normal mode" (as opposed to Volume Bypass mode). So the above shows what happens in the block that is called "DSD Filter 1". There is not much explanation of what happens in "DSD Filter 2", just this:

It also has some switchable parameters..

 

[Matthew]

I am considering getting a DAC that uses the AK4191EQ/AK4499EX chip set. There are several DACs using this AKM chip combo that are nearly in the same price range: Topping E70V, SMSL M400, SMSL DO400EX, SMSL SU-9 Ultra.

Any recommendation on which one to get?

You forgot the Geshelli J2 and that one allows you to use your choice of OPAmps in the output stage as well!

 

[Roland68]

You forgot the Geshelli J2 and that one allows you to use your choice of OPAmps in the output stage as well!

This DAC didn't have particularly great results when tested here on ASR, but there are much better options available, especially in this price range. The replaceable OPAmps don't change that.

 

[Middle Earth]

I have a Geshelli J2 Socketed and I like it a lot.
Outside of this forum there is nothing but love for Geshelli and the J2 in particular
I like the fact that they use an Amanero USB
I was skeptical due to this forum and was resistive
This is an instance for me were I came to believe everyone, and I mean everyone else, over this forum’s group think
I do not discount the notion that a DAC is a DAC generally but this Is my experience
There was so much universal love for it that I finally decided to check it out and I could not be happier with the J2 Socketed
U.S. based company

 

[lyramax]

You forgot the Geshelli J2 and that one allows you to use your choice of OPAmps in the output stage as well!

I did look into the Geshelli DAC that uses the newer AK4191EQ/AK4499EX chip set -- their DayZee.

It's designed to be a distributive DAC with double sets of inputs and outputs on top of dual-mono AK4191EQ/AK4499EX's, hence it's quite pricey with a base price of ~ $1,300.

 

[Roland68]

I did look into the Geshelli DAC that uses the newer AK4191EQ/AK4499EX chip set -- their DayZee.

It's designed to be a distributive DAC with double sets of inputs and outputs on top of dual-mono AK4191EQ/AK4499EX's, hence it's quite pricey with a base price of ~ $1,300.

For that you get a very well developed Gustard A26.
What I don't like about the Geshelli J2 and the DAYZEE is that they didn't take a few important things into account in the layout for the AK4499EX. Maybe it's intentional or they don't have enough experience with this chip. I know several designs where exactly that was attempted and it was always a disadvantage in terms of sound.
The replaceable OPAmps are probably one of the most important selling points, although that's not a good idea either.

I would like to hear the Geshelli J2 and the DAYZEE and compare them with other DACs. If anyone in Germany or the EU has one of the two and is interested, just let me know.

 

[Middle Earth]

For that you get a very well developed Gustard A26.
What I don't like about the Geshelli J2 and the DAYZEE is that they didn't take a few important things into account in the layout for the AK4499EX. Maybe it's intentional or they don't have enough experience with this chip. I know several designs where exactly that was attempted and it was always a disadvantage in terms of sound.
The replaceable OPAmps are probably one of the most important selling points, although that's not a good idea either.

I would like to hear the Geshelli J2 and the DAYZEE and compare them with other DACs. If anyone in Germany or the EU has one of the two and is interested, just let me know.

As I stated I was skeptical
IIWI has reviewed the J2 Socketed
I know that IIWI is verboten here
But I hold him in high regard
My opinion is that everyone outside of this forum is right and the science that says Geshelli blows is wrong
Just my opinion so no need for anyone to get the vapors
I really like my J2 Socketed

 

[lyramax]

...
What I don't like about the Geshelli J2 and the DAYZEE is that they didn't take a few important things into account in the layout for the AK4499EX. Maybe it's intentional or they don't have enough experience with this chip. I know several designs where exactly that was attempted and it was always a disadvantage in terms of sound.
...

Can you elaborate on what these "flaws" are? (I'm interested to learn).

 

[JohnGo]

Hi!

The SMSL M400 with AK4499EQ chip has a special sound, with a lot of treble.
The preamp section is also important to me.

Until now I had an SMSL M400 DAC (AK4499EQ chip), it sounded really good. The preamplifier of the SMSL M400 is broken. Now I can't find this sound. What I've tried so far sounds much weaker.

- Eversolo DMP-A8 streamer (AK4499EX chip)
- Emotiva BasX XDA-3 Reference DAC, preamplifier (ES9038Q2M chip)
- Matrix Audio elemet i (ES9028PRO chip) streamer

They all sounded the same, there is little treble. It's like turning down a treble equalizer. I think an AKM chip.

Can you recommend a DAC/streamer, that knows the sound of the SMSL M400? Much more treble, analog sound, silky sound. I would like something new, for example Topping DX9 or Gustard A26.

In terms of price, the Gustard A26 is the ceiling.
THX.

 

[Roland68]

Hi!

The SMSL M400 with AK4499EQ chip has a special sound, with a lot of treble.
The preamp section is also important to me.

Until now I had an SMSL M400 DAC (AK4499EQ chip), it sounded really good. The preamplifier of the SMSL M400 is broken. Now I can't find this sound. What I've tried so far sounds much weaker.

- Eversolo DMP-A8 streamer (AK4499EX chip)
- Emotiva BasX XDA-3 Reference DAC, preamplifier (ES9038Q2M chip)
- Matrix Audio elemet i (ES9028PRO chip) streamer

They all sounded the same, there is little treble. It's like turning down a treble equalizer. I think an AKM chip.

Can you recommend a DAC/streamer, that knows the sound of the SMSL M400? Much more treble, analog sound, silky sound. I would like something new, for example Topping DX9 or Gustard A26.

In terms of price, the Gustard A26 is the ceiling.
THX.

I think I have to disappoint you, in this price range the differences are so marginal that you wouldn't survive a blind test. At the time I had, among other things, the SMSL M400, Loxjie D50 (almost identical) and the Gustard A18 with a few other DACs to test.
Even on very good systems you could hardly tell the difference and I kept the Gustard A18 because I liked the technical structure better and SMSL and Loxjie only connected 2 of the 4 channels on the old AK4499.
It could just be that your M400 was defective from the start.

In the meantime I have also tested other DACs, e.g. SMSL SU-10, D400EX, D400 Pro, DO400, Topping D90xx, E70. The differences are marginal at best and cannot be distinguished as worse or better. Even well-made DACs with single or dual ES9038Q2M/ES9039Q2M will not be able to tell the difference blindly.

What does it mean that the preamplifier on your M400 is defective? The M400 does not have any components for a preamplifier, the volume control (actually digital volume reduction) runs via DSP functions of the DAC chip and happens before the D/A conversion.

 

[voodooless]

The SMSL M400 with AK4499EQ chip has a special sound, with a lot of treble

No, it doesn’t:

It’s similar to all other DACs out there. Maybe you just like the broken filters?

 

[JohnGo]

I think I have to disappoint you, in this price range the differences are so marginal that you wouldn't survive a blind test. At the time I had, among other things, the SMSL M400, Loxjie D50 (almost identical) and the Gustard A18 with a few other DACs to test.
Even on very good systems you could hardly tell the difference and I kept the Gustard A18 because I liked the technical structure better and SMSL and Loxjie only connected 2 of the 4 channels on the old AK4499.
It could just be that your M400 was defective from the start.

In the meantime I have also tested other DACs, e.g. SMSL SU-10, D400EX, D400 Pro, DO400, Topping D90xx, E70. The differences are marginal at best and cannot be distinguished as worse or better. Even well-made DACs with single or dual ES9038Q2M/ES9039Q2M will not be able to tell the difference blindly.

What does it mean that the preamplifier on your M400 is defective? The M400 does not have any components for a preamplifier, the volume control (actually digital volume reduction) runs via DSP functions of the DAC chip and happens before the D/A conversion.

The SMSL M400 turned the full volume on the Emotiva XPA-DR2 power amplifier. My speakers are broken.
I also don't understand why the SMSL M400 with more treble sounds. Maybe because of my system?
Emotiva XPA-DR2 power amplifier
Wharfedale EVO 4.2 speaker
High quality cables.

 

[Roland68]

The SMSL M400 turned the full volume on the Emotiva XPA-DR2 power amplifier. My speakers are broken.
I also don't understand why the SMSL M400 with more treble sounds. Maybe because of my system?
Emotiva XPA-DR2 power amplifier
Wharfedale EVO 4.2 speaker
High quality cables.

I would never use the preamp function of a DAC for volume control because that's exactly what can happen.

Is your M400 still working?

 

[JohnGo]

I would never use the preamp function of a DAC for volume control because that's exactly what can happen.

Is your M400 still working?

I already sold it.

 

[Roland68]

I already sold it.

I assume that your M400 was not defective at all, but that what has happened many times before simply happened. The digital volume control jumped to 0 dB. This can happen at any time with almost any DAC that uses the DSP function in the DAC chips for digital volume reduction.
Avoid doing this in the future.

 

[JohnGo]

I assume that your M400 was not defective at all, but that what has happened many times before simply happened. The digital volume control jumped to 0 dB. This can happen at any time with almost any DAC that uses the DSP function in the DAC chips for digital volume reduction.
Avoid doing this in the future.

Ok, thx.

 

[Roland68]

Ok, thx.

If you were happy with the M400, HiFi-Express is currently selling the last ones for $442.
HiFi-Express M400 442,00 USD

There are many new and used preamps on the market, but few with balanced connections.
If SE is enough for you, you can look for a cheap Sabaj A10h, relay based volume control, display and remote control for under $100. With XLR you could, for example, go for a Toppling L70, also with relay based volume control, display and remote control.

My condolences on your beautiful speakers, it's really a shame.