Recommendation: lots of ADC/DAC with no pres

[occassionally_interested]

Hello everyone. I apologize if this is not the appropriate place for thread.

I'm looking for an upgrade from my current interface(s). I started with a UMC204HD, then on a Scarlett 6i6 (mistakenly bought a 1st gen on eBay - no big deal, it has served me well.)

Desired price range: Under $500, new or used
Desired # of preamps: 0 may be ok*
Desired I/O: lots of balanced analog, at the very least.
Phantom power & Hi-Z: not necessary*
MIDI: none is ok

My 1st thoughts are: UPHORIA 1820, or a 2nd or 3rd gen Focusrite equivalent. However, with regards to the Behringer, I'm concerned about what I have read about lackluster output voltages, and also I have read that my 204 lacks true balanced outputs, so I'm curious if the same is true for the big-brother Behringer 1820, but these seem like relatively stock decisions, and I'm wondering what the real experts here can come up with.

I am an amateur producer who rarely has to record single guitar and vocal takes, typically using an ART Pro Channel II for preamp*. Things like mic'ing up a trio of singers or recording a drum kit aren't likely to happen any time soon for me, and I bring this up just in case something with included preamps can significantly affect what I may be able to get, I/O wise.

I have started to build a small collection of outboard gear, the idea is to keep getting more and more of it. I have a palmer reverse DI for reamping, some staple guitar FX pedals, an 1176 clone, (recently found a working stereo DBX-comp unit on the side of the road ... !! ) -- basically I have lots of line-level stuff, and due to having a dedicated hardware preamp, and not likely needing multiple pres, I am wondering if this opens up any niche gear in the "lots of decent-quality ADC/DAC with no pres" category, if such a thing exists.

tl;dr: I really just want to have something that gives me the option to use a significant amount (future willing..) of outtboard hardware FX units as inserts from Reaper, with still good ADC/DAC.

Thank you feel free to ask for any clarification

 

[AnalogSteph]

My 1st thoughts are: UPHORIA 1820, or a 2nd or 3rd gen Focusrite equivalent. However, with regards to the Behringer, I'm concerned about what I have read about lackluster output voltages, and also I have read that my 204 lacks true balanced outputs, so I'm curious if the same is true for the big-brother Behringer 1820, but these seem like relatively stock decisions, and I'm wondering what the real experts here can come up with.

The UMC1820 has the advantage of sporting a true +/-12 V split supply, which ironically gives it the highest instrument input levels in its class at a whopping +18 dBu - the 3rd gen 18i20 with its +/-5 V supply tops out at +9 dBu. There's really no replacement for supply voltage in that particular application. Otherwise you can expect rustic but functional circuitry, with the 106 dB dynamic range spec suggesting a CS4270 grave or somesuch. And apparently they can have their quirks, presumably rooted in construction / assembly issues.

The UMC2xxHD series suffers from insisting on running on straight 5 V USB power and then not even attempting to make up for it. It might make them more reliable (capacitor quality is going to be less of a problem with no DC/DC involved), but means analog levels are pretty naff. Even some other cheap interfaces are better in this respect these days.

My gut feeling says that you may find something suitable among more upscale studio gear of the 2000s to early 2010s, though you might want to keep an old PC around for it (PCI slots or Firewire can be handy, possibly XP as well) and being able to wield a soldering iron (*cough* capacitor plague *cough*) is by no means a hindrance.
Units with a bunch of line-level I/O were fairly popular at one time, and purely from a sound perspective, I would record with something like an E-MU 1820M any day of the week (assuming it's in good working order - caps were kinda crappy in these and are known to pop, but otherwise you got great hardware for the money at the time, even if the software was a mixed bag). Might be a bit overdressed for your gear, mind you, unless you absolutely insist on working in 44.1 kHz straight (the old AK5394(A) has absolutely bombproof anti-alias filters). Odds are you'd be just as happy with an AK5385x / CS536x / CS4272 grave, as common in the studio midrange. Even the old M-Audio Delta 1010 definitely is still usable (even with Windows 10 if you insist). Likewise, the E-MU 1820 non-M with its PCM1804 ADCs and slightly less good analog stage. And I definitely wouldn't mind an RME Fireface 400 (good hardware, superb driver support).

I suppose you'll have to keep an eye out for what's out there on the used market and do your research. Maybe an out-of-the-box solution still pops up even for use with a modern PC. Like recycling a nice older ADAT ADC/DAC with a UMC1820 or other interface sporting ADAT I/O.

 

[occassionally_interested]

Hello, thank you very much for your response! I didn't know that stuff about the Behringer's potential better aspects compared to its Scarlett counterpart, nor did I realize how much the way the 204 gets its power negatively impacted its potential to have been a much better design. To be fair, I found the 1st gen 6i6 to sound a world better, especially through my HS5's.

I'm considering the following combination: A MOTU HDX-SDI (PCI-E) video interface. Why?:

1. It has 8-in, 8-out analog TRS. The gear is from ~2009 if I am not mistaken, and I have a feeling its ADC will be trustworthy for music/sound recording despite its role as a video interface, but, if not...
2. It has 8-in, 8-out channels of AES3, which can run simultaneously with the analog inputs, for 16-in, 16-out operation, enabling the pairing of a dedicated pre/AD combo unit like the readily available Yamaha AD8HR (which sadly only puts out AES, and there's no way to bypass the converters (but I'd trust them anyway, personally)).

The catch is that the PCI-variant (and the insanely more expensive ThunderBolt variant) of the MOTU only advertises up to Win 8.1 support, but I'll also like see what happens when booting into Linux, as well. I use Reaper which has official support down to XP. The fun part will be seeing if the 8.1 drivers happen to work on 10, or if I will have to discover that none of my plugins work on 8.1!

I've never worked with digital audio like this before, so I'll be leaning heavily on the pinout diagrams for both units and making sure everything is connected properly. Very curious to know what people think about using a MOTU video interface in such a manner. The way I see it is: it's gotta be decently on par with the MOTU audio interfaces of its time, but without any published specs on the TRS inputs, I can't really know for sure.

I sure wish there were some kind of Arduino project or better yet, a dedicated product to take something like the AD8HR's multiple outputs into a modern PC without needing something like the MOTU for the AES3, because afaik, every other interface with the AES-ins that supports Windows 10 or newer is going to set you back $1000!

Edit: I installed the MOTU drivers successfully on Windows 10, we'll see if it actually functions when the unit arrives.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Let us know how it goes. Using older PCIe devices can have its pitfalls, here's a glimpse at what might go wrong:

Can't get Asus Xonar SE detected on new hardware (e.g. Z590 / other Intel 5xx)? Try this.

My shiny new Asus TUF Gaming Z590-Plus WIFI (now that's a mouthful) mamaboard would not detect a Xonar SE soundcard by the very same manufacturer (oops). On top of that, the Intel I225-V onboard LAN would disappear when the card was inserted. :facepalm: At the same time, the card was proven to...

www.audiosciencereview.com