Recommendation for bookshelf speakers in a non-ideal room

[LETRA]

Hah hah...I own KH 150 and I built the A26 SEAS kit. Love them both for different reasons. The KH150 does well in a small to (max) a medium sized room. Actually does Amazing!!! The A26 is nowhere near the KH150, but it is endearing to listen to over long periods.
PS: my A26 kit is actually built to 35 litres as in dimensions identical to the Dynaco A35 with an aperiodic port out back.

Thank you for your response. It is very interesting to find someone who has both models. I have not yet purchased the KH 150 and still have the Seas A26's in that location I showed. What would be the proper listening distance on the KH150's? I would only be able to place them in two locations. Either the main computer table where I sit or on the same shelf as the Seas A26 (you can see it in the pictures) about 4 meters from the listening point in a room of about 25 m2.

 

[staticV3]

What would be the proper listening distance on the KH150's?

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[LETRA]

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Thank you. I mean, in any case they could not be placed on the computer table and in the case of placing them 4 meters away on the shelf there would be a certain loss of hearing quality.

 

[40th Anniversary]

Actually, the KH150 is easy to install in a smaller space. I suggest you go to the review of the KH150 and see what others are saying about listening to this speaker at a longer distance as room reflections can play in role in sound quality.

My office is about 12 x 12 (feet) and I listen to the KH150 from about 1 meters (when at the desk) to about 9 feet when at distance. They sound...magical in that room - from bottom (thunderous bass) to sweet highs, it's all just an easy listen.

In a bigger room with little damping, there are reflections to deal with (basement room is 13 x 19 feet). I'm no expert but others know more in the KH150 posts. I'm having less issues with the A26 and my Triangle Comète 40th than with the KH150 in the larger room.
The bass & volume are fine, it's just that I have many reflections to deal with and there is little damping in my basement system.
I will install a rug and get some side wall damping effect material in time, but I'm not sure how I will deal with the ceiling bounce (I see you have a ceiling similar in height to mine in my basement).

It isn't easy making a recommendation. The KH150, by all metrics is way superior to the SEAS A26 kit. Yet the A26 (mine is built to A35 dimensions) is easier to just pluck down in a room and listen to. My feeling, in a holistic manner, is that the KH150 is far superior and requires far superior room treatment to do it justice.

I'm totally happy with the KH150 and have moved them to my office system where they just are sublime (smaller room).

As they say, YMMV.

 

[staticV3]

they could not be placed on the computer table and in the case of placing them 4 meters away on the shelf there would be a certain loss of hearing quality.

If they can't be placed on the desk, perhaps these would work?

Speaker Stands - desktop/office set up - is it just me…?

My current set up is a desktop affair, with speakers on stands either side of the desk. It’s a work in progress. I don’t know why I’ve not thought about this before, but sat in an office/gaming chair, you’re ears are far higher than if you’re sat on a sofa, or in an armchair. If my sums are...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[LETRA]

Actually, the KH150 is easy to install in a smaller space. I suggest you go to the review of the KH150 and see what others are saying about listening to this speaker at a longer distance as room reflections can play in role in sound quality.

My office is about 12 x 12 (feet) and I listen to the KH150 from about 1 meters (when at the desk) to about 9 feet when at distance. They sound...magical in that room - from bottom (thunderous bass) to sweet highs, it's all just an easy listen.

In a bigger room with little damping, there are reflections to deal with (basement room is 13 x 19 feet). I'm no expert but others know more in the KH150 posts. I'm having less issues with the A26 and my Triangle Comète 40th than with the KH150 in the larger room.
The bass & volume are fine, it's just that I have many reflections to deal with and there is little damping in my basement system.
I will install a rug and get some side wall damping effect material in time, but I'm not sure how I will deal with the ceiling bounce (I see you have a ceiling similar in height to mine in my basement).

It isn't easy making a recommendation. The KH150, by all metrics is way superior to the SEAS A26 kit. Yet the A26 (mine is built to A35 dimensions) is easier to just pluck down in a room and listen to. My feeling, in a holistic manner, is that the KH150 is far superior and requires far superior room treatment to do it justice.

I'm totally happy with the KH150 and have moved them to my office system where they just are sublime (smaller room).

As they say, YMMV.

Thank you very much for your response. Although I already read quite a many pages of the KH150 thread I will revisit it is possible that I will make the decision to try the speakers by buying them in a store with easy return if they are not the right fit in this room. Thanks for refloating the topic, I had practically forgotten about this possibility.

 

[40th Anniversary]

I took a look at your room and speaker setup a second time. There is only so much you can do with the A26. I think Murphy the Cat posted somewhere online that he compared them to Harbeth SHL5 and he noted that the Harbeth was superior, but not for the money. Furthermore he was quite happy with the musicality of the A26 on its own.
You either decide you like them, EQ them or even work on the crossover to smooth out the frequency response. Word Designs came up with a crossover by Peter Comeau. Google that and you will find it.
Two additional comments: move your right speaker left, and vice-versa: apparently the tweeters on the inside will give you more 'bite'.
You may also try to fill in the gaps on the bottom and sides of your speaker to give it more baffle, so to speak: this might help the bass response.

1. Speaker flip left to right.
2. Crossover work.
3. Make the install more seamless (report back because I have no idea what if any impact this latter statement will have on your install).

These are all minor tweaks that don't costs much; ok the crossover might be a lot of work, but not earth shattering.

Best of luc.

 

[LETRA]

If they can't be placed on the desk, perhaps these would work?

Speaker Stands - desktop/office set up - is it just me…?

My current set up is a desktop affair, with speakers on stands either side of the desk. It’s a work in progress. I don’t know why I’ve not thought about this before, but sat in an office/gaming chair, you’re ears are far higher than if you’re sat on a sofa, or in an armchair. If my sums are...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thank you. Those stands that are screwed to the corner of the table in particular no, because of the construction of the table. They will have to be some stands placed on the surface. The depth of the table is 60 cm. If I were to buy the KH150s I would try both options, on the table and on the shelf. But unfortunately neither option is the most optimal in the characteristics of my listening point. I will continue to keep an eye on this.

 

[LETRA]

I took a look at your room and speaker setup a second time. There is only so much you can do with the A26. I think Murphy the Cat posted somewhere online that he compared them to Harbeth SHL5 and he noted that the Harbeth was superior, but not for the money. Furthermore he was quite happy with the musicality of the A26 on its own.
You either decide you like them, EQ them or even work on the crossover to smooth out the frequency response. Word Designs came up with a crossover by Peter Comeau. Google that and you will find it.
Two additional comments: move your right speaker left, and vice-versa: apparently the tweeters on the inside will give you more 'bite'.
You may also try to fill in the gaps on the bottom and sides of your speaker to give it more baffle, so to speak: this might help the bass response.

1. Speaker flip left to right.
2. Crossover work.
3. Make the install more seamless (report back because I have no idea what if any impact this latter statement will have on your install).

These are all minor tweaks that don't costs much; ok the crossover might be a lot of work, but not earth shattering.

Best of luc.

I'm going to start with speaker flip left to right. I also had the shelf holes lined with absorber boards. The other day I ordered a saw from Amazon to cut two shelves farther apart and open two holes in the shelf farther away from each other so that I increase the stereo image quality. I don't know if I should try those improvements with the Seas A26, damaging more the structure of the shelf, or leave it and buy the KH150 next month.

 

[40th Anniversary]

One thing I've learned with using different speakers in different rooms, It is not one size fits all.

Just a suggestion, and this may or my not work, but using a quality small speaker at close range, like desktop (Neumann KH 80 or 120, Genelec 8020 or 8030C) at close range, and keep the A26 as is for more of a background general listening speaker at further distances.

Again, just suggestions as I'm getting to the point that one speaker can't do it all; and I like the Neumann 150s and recently had the Genelecs and they were fine speakers at close range.

 

[LETRA]

One thing I've learned with using different speakers in different rooms, It is not one size fits all.

Just a suggestion, and this may or my not work, but using a quality small speaker at close range, like desktop (Neumann KH 80 or 120, Genelec 8020 or 8030C) at close range, and keep the A26 as is for more of a background general listening speaker at further distances.

Again, just suggestions as I'm getting to the point that one speaker can't do it all; and I like the Neumann 150s and recently had the Genelecs and they were fine speakers at close range.

Yes, it is a possibility. The thing is that (I just looked it up) the KH120 requires the same minimum listening distance of 1m. With the KH150 I can try two things, to see the result it gives placed on the table and placed on the shelf. The KH120 would be out of the question for the shelf. Besides the measurements of the KH150 is what attracts me. All this conversation with you is making me decide to buy the KH150 and try it out. If it doesn't convince me, I'll return it. But clearly I have to try my luck with those speakers.

 

[40th Anniversary]

You'll have to turn the mid-bass down at least one notch; and the bass down two positions on the rear panel of the KH150.
And you'll still major reverberations placed on that shelf in the photo: the KH150 when properly positioned are "bass monster".

Best of luck and I look forward to hearing from you in the future. !!

 

[LETRA]

Very grateful for all the ideas you have given me. When I buy them, I hope to post back on the thread for your help with your advice. Thank you so much.

 

[40th Anniversary]

Warning: lots of Science rules broken here. I've thrown some damping here and there; more to come.

That said I wanted to do some testing between my KH150, my Triangles Comète 40th and these clones that I dub A36 because they are made to Dynaco A35 dimensions.

My cabinet builder decided that aesthetics were more important than driver location and was inspired by the older Ohm Model E...or older Boston speakers. It is what it is. The construction is solid Birch with a brace in the middle and a Scan Speak aperiodic vent out back. Drivers are from the SEAS A26 kit.

This picture is from my basement system where little damping currently exists after a recent renovation. It is what it is 2.0.

In order of preference in my basement system, the SEAS clones are the best fit. A nice impact to the bass (but not earth shattering) and an overall nice sound signature. They are driven by an AHB2 from an RME ADI-2 DAC FS. I have added EQ at 1.6 kHz to make up for that dip in the frequency response. They respond well.
* Just for fun I recently added a Hattor Tube Linestage Buffer: this makes the soundstage wider, and brings forward instruments and voices that get recessed in the background. I was not expecting much from this buffer, but I'm loving it from the seat of my pants, my ears, my brain.
I'm just listening to Manu Chao 's 'Welcome to Tijuana' at low volume and it is just sweet and effortless (at low volume!).

Next is a tie between the Triangles and the KH150. Triangles just fit right in and give me that immediacy in the midrange and they are smooth and very detailed up on top. A little bass shy unfortunately: they don't sound thin or anything, nicely balanced, but the impact is nicer & warmer with the SEAS clones.

The KH150 destroys both the Clones and the Triangles...sort of. In this bigger room they don't get lost: they are loud if pushed, clean and offer wonderful bass you can feel. However there are reverberations at the mid and high frequencies and they become tiresome in this ' bright room'.
Hence I moved them upstairs to my office and it is just...WOW! I've never heard better once installed in that small room; never better in my buddies stereo system or an audio shows. Well I did hear 'some' great systems at shows, but also horrible ones LoL.

Getting back to the SEAS clones: I think they are a wonderful speaker to listen to and the music just flows nicely.
* I do have a second Scan Speak aperiodic vent I'm thinking of installing out back on said clones. Each vent apparently increase the cabinet's volume by 20% to improve bass response. Since the rear panel is easily removed, it is easy to modify; worst case I can shoehorn a new rear panel in place.

I find your quest interesting and while our speakers are not identical, they share some form of similar DNA.

PS: the Hattor Tube Linestage Buffer has added life to the Triangle and the SEAS clones. I haven't tried it with the KH150, nor do I feel compelled to since they are so stunningly good in the office environment. But I'll give it a try someday.

Hope this additional info and comparisons help.

Best regards.

 

[Duke]

View attachment 426277

I see that you remain open-minded... one speaker supported by an engineered solution, and the other supported by love.

 

[40th Anniversary]

I see that you remain open-minded... one speaker supported by an engineered solution, and the other supported by love.

Good one!

 

[LETRA]

@40th Anniversary You must have an extraordinary sound. I hope when I get the KH150's they can come a little bit closer to the sound you have. Thank you so much for your posts and your knowledge.

 

[40th Anniversary]

@40th Anniversary You must have an extraordinary sound. I hope when I get the KH150's they can come a little bit closer to the sound you have. Thank you so much for your posts and your knowledge.

It's room & position dependent. I'm listening to some Radiohead tunes in front of my SEAS Clones and they sound sublime...they are pointed at me with just a tad of toe in. In different rooms and locations they did not do as good since my rooms were irregular and I was at angles to the speakers.
If I don't compare them to the KH150, the system as is sounds good.

As previously stated the KH150 are a superior speaker once you dial them. That said, there is something special with my clones and I do enjoy listening to them. The signal chain is an RME ADI-2 DAC FS driving my AHB2 - but interrupted by a Khozmo Passive Preamp (volume control) and the Hattor tube buffer; so all the clean audio signal path is somewhat compromised and sounding great.

Part science& part experimentation after trying different combinations.

Looking forward to hearing from you in the near future.

 

[LETRA]

Thank you very much. I'll stick with that: “In part science and in part experimentation”. You have helped me a lot. I hope to give good news when I get the KH150's in a while

 

[40th Anniversary]

Thank you very much. I'll stick with that: “In part science and in part experimentation”. You have helped me a lot. I hope to give good news when I get the KH150's in a while

A bit more experimentation for the last couple of days with positive results, so thought I would share them.
There is no Baffle Step compensation in this speaker's crossover (more like crossover less to the woofer).
I spoke with Solen a while back and they said it should be something to look at going forward in order to improve the sound of the speaker.

So I thought to myself, what if I put up a temporary wide baffle next to the speakers, which is what I did: essentially a wall (panels) next to the speakers.

Not measured results: I'm not sure the bass is better, but it might be, it certainly is not worse. But the midrange and * imaging* is much improved (I never thought the A26, A36 in my case, imaged all that well).

So here is a tweak that did not cost a lot to mimic, but will cost a lot to make permanent if I decide to permanently build baffles around the speakers, or, build wider cabinets for the speakers.

I can imagine an Orangutan 096 speaker with its wide dimensions has inherent advantages over a narrower speaker.

More listening tomorrow.