Recommendation for bookshelf speakers in a non-ideal room

[LETRA]

Hello dear ASR members I read very attentively your opinions on any subject. I have a question which is a bit difficult because speaker measurements are made in ideal environments and my case is not ideal. I have a room of about 30m2, full of books and music with bookshelves on two walls facing each other. On one of these walls, and next to the shelves, I have the desk with the computers and on the opposite wall (about 4 metres away) other shelves with sawed holes to place the speakers close to wall. The size of these holes is 65cm high, 32cm wide and 32cm deep. I currently have a pair of DIY SEAS A26 placed there with an acceptable (but not fabulous) sound and I do room correction with Dirac Live which I use with the VST plugin in JRiver. There is a lot of furniture and it is not possible to choose a more suitable location neither for the speakers, nor for my listening point. Which speakers in that maximum size of 65x32x33cm could you recommend me? And xaximum budget... 2000€.

Thanks for all your ideas in advance. Your suggestions can be much more interesting than those of any salesman

 

[staticV3]

If you want to fill the holes completely, then the Wharfedale Linton or the recently announced Super Linton.

 

[LETRA]

If you want to fill the holes completely, then the Wharfedale Linton or the recently announced Super Linton.

Thank you. I had the Wharfedale Linton's two years ago and returned them to the shop. Those sounded much worse than the Seas A26 DIY in this room configuration. No need to fill in the holes. I currently use about 20cm wooden feet filled with sand for the Seas to fill holes ^^

 

[Roland68]

Hello dear ASR members I read very attentively your opinions on any subject. I have a question which is a bit difficult because speaker measurements are made in ideal environments and my case is not ideal. I have a room of about 30m2, full of books and music with bookshelves on two walls facing each other. On one of these walls, and next to the shelves, I have the desk with the computers and on the opposite wall (about 4 metres away) other shelves with sawed holes to place the speakers close to wall. The size of these holes is 65cm high, 32cm wide and 32cm deep. I currently have a pair of DIY SEAS A26 placed there with an acceptable (but not fabulous) sound and I do room correction with Dirac Live which I use with the VST plugin in JRiver. There is a lot of furniture and it is not possible to choose a more suitable location neither for the speakers, nor for my listening point. Which speakers in that maximum size of 65x32x33cm could you recommend me? And xaximum budget... 2000€.

Thanks for all your ideas in advance. Your suggestions can be much more interesting than those of any salesman

Could you please post a picture of your speaker?
I want to be sure I'm not telling you anything wrong.

 

[LETRA]

Could you please post a picture of your speaker?
I want to be sure I'm not telling you anything wrong.

Hi @Roland68. Thanks for your help. I hope these photos will help. The listening point is on the right of the first picture, in that chair with its back to the speakers and which is attached to some desks that don't appear in the pictures.

 

[Roland68]

Hi @Roland68. Thanks for your help. I hope these photos will help. The listening point is on the right of the first picture, in that chair with its back to the speakers and which is attached to some desks that don't appear in the pictures.

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I just wanted to make sure that it was these speakers with these chassis.
You want to replace these speakers with finished speakers for around €2000/$ for the pair? Could be difficult.
You really have a pair of very high-quality speakers and it would be difficult to replace them with something better. The chassis in your speakers are from the very high-quality SEAS Excel series and cost over €1200/$ for the pair. You can find something like that for finished speakers for around €5000 - €1000/$.
I'm not surprised that you brought the Linton back, they play a few classes below.

I would recommend building new and high-quality housings with recessed chassis for the A26, preferably from birch or maple multiplex plywood.
Is the brown subwoofer next to the armchair for the A26? A steep separation at around 60 Hz would be very beneficial.

You could also build new, very high-quality DIY speakers for the money that are a bit better. I can think of 2-3, but that would take up your entire budget.

Since you already have very good speakers, think about whether you want to run your system completely actively, e.g. with a multi-channel DAC and an FIR-based system like Acourate, with which you can create crossovers for the speakers/subwoofers and correction filters for the speaker chassis and room. That would give your system a much bigger boost.

 

[LETRA]

I just wanted to make sure that it was these speakers with these chassis.
You want to replace these speakers with finished speakers for around €2000/$ for the pair? Could be difficult.
You really have a pair of very high-quality speakers and it would be difficult to replace them with something better. The chassis in your speakers are from the very high-quality SEAS Excel series and cost over €1200/$ for the pair. You can find something like that for finished speakers for around €5000 - €1000/$.
I'm not surprised that you brought the Linton back, they play a few classes below.

I would recommend building new and high-quality housings with recessed chassis for the A26, preferably from birch or maple multiplex plywood.
Is the brown subwoofer next to the armchair for the A26? A steep separation at around 60 Hz would be very beneficial.

You could also build new, very high-quality DIY speakers for the money that are a bit better. I can think of 2-3, but that would take up your entire budget.

Since you already have very good speakers, think about whether you want to run your system completely actively, e.g. with a multi-channel DAC and an FIR-based system like Acourate, with which you can create crossovers for the speakers/subwoofers and correction filters for the speaker chassis and room. That would give your system a much bigger boost.

Thank you very much @Roland68. I use Dirac Live as a VST plugin in JRiver with good results. But I still can't get a high-end sound as I would like. The sound is good, but not good enough and I think there is a handicap with the room that even Dirac can't solve. Acourate is much more difficult to use and I'm not ready. There is too much furniture and not enough space and the speakers can't be placed anywhere else. The subwoofer you see is a vintage A.C.T. M1-BR that I don't have connected. I can't place it anywhere else and where it is it doesn't add anything, so I use it as a bookstand. It's nice to be reminded that my Seas A26 are really good speakers and I'd have to spend a lot of money to beat them. But when one is not happy with the sound one has, one tries to turn everything upside down.

My listening position is with my back to the speakers and that is also a problem and I am seriously considering Neumann KH150 studio monitors which I would place on the desk. I think that with the listening room I have I have to give up the quality that most amplifiers and speakers tested under optimal conditions give. Some front studio monitors in the desk and Dirac Live small fix might be the solution. Taking into account the pictures of the room, what do you think? A chance for the Neumann KH150 or keep trying with for example a Purifi amplifier?

You can find something like that for finished speakers for around €5000 - €1000/$.

Do you mean speakers between 1000 and 5000 $/€ or between 5000 and 10.000 $/€?

 

[kemmler3D]

It's my personal opinion that coaxial speakers are less sensitive to placement, so you might want to look at the new KEF Q Concerto and/or LS50 and/or Mofi Sourcepoint 8?

I think your current speakers are good but the setup is the problem. Listening with your back to the speakers is never going to sound very "high end" IMO.

If putting some nice monitors on the desk is an option as you mention, I'd ultimately vote for the KH150s on the desk.

 

[Mikig]

if that is the position and that must remain, I would also think about in-wall speakers. Amirm has reviewed some, they are made specifically to be “drowned” in a structure, as could be yours, so they could be a solution. Second solution could be near field monitors, made to play against a wall. Most speakers are normally designed to be free, however at least 20/30 centimeters from the walls.

 

[LETRA]

It's my personal opinion that coaxial speakers are less sensitive to placement, so you might want to look at the new KEF Q Concerto and/or LS50 and/or Mofi Sourcepoint 8?

I think your current speakers are good but the setup is the problem. Listening with your back to the speakers is never going to sound very "high end" IMO.

If putting some nice monitors on the desk is an option as you mention, I'd ultimately vote for the KH150s on the desk.

Thank you @kemmler3D for the suggestions. I had a pair of KEF LS-50 Meta's years ago for months until I sold them and, while they were better in my opinion than the Linton's, they didn't have the quality of the Seas A26 in my living room. Maybe I have to listen to @Roland68 and also to what people say about the Seas on DIY Audio forums. There are few things like the A26s and those start at around the six thousand euro/dollar mark. But no matter how good the speakers are, if they are boxed in a bookshelf they are not going to give a high end sound.

Thanks for your vote for Neumann KH150. The advantage is that I can buy them from a top European shop on Black Friday and, if I'm disappointed, there will be no problem with returns. If I fail, I'll be back on the road to finding better amps and speakers within my budget. I would possibly look for other DIY speakers to improve the Seas, but reviews and measurements are sometimes so theoretically suggestive that I look in all directions.

 

[LETRA]

if that is the position and that must remain, I would also think about in-wall speakers. Amirm has reviewed some, they are made specifically to be “drowned” in a structure, as could be yours, so they could be a solution. Second solution could be near field monitors, made to play against a wall. Most speakers are normally designed to be free, however at least 20/30 centimeters from the walls.

Thanks @Mikig, I'll look for those Amir reviews tomorrow to see if anything matches my desired size and budget. The second option you give me I understand is studio monitors, also called near field monitors in Europe. This should be a solution, for example the KH150, although with the handicap of not having good audio quality from another listening point, for example the left armchair about four metres away from the table where the Neumanns would be placed.

Nothing is perfect if there are limits somewhere.

 

[SunRa]

I had the Wharfedale Linton's two years ago and returned them to the shop. Those sounded much worse than the Seas A26 DIY in this room configuration.

I had a pair of KEF LS-50 Meta's years ago for months until I sold them and, while they were better in my opinion than the Linton's, they didn't have the quality of the Seas A26 in my living room

Could you give some more details about the ways in which A26 is different compared to the LS-50 and the Linton? I was considering the KEF R3 Meta or the Super Linton for a similar setup you have (essentially a full-wall bookshelf) but now I am very intrigued by the Seas A26.

For what it's worth, maybe a good upgrade is something somewhat similar to the A26, but higher spec, like
Jeff Bagby Helios. It's a bookshelf which shares with the A26 a large but probably improved mid-woofer and upgrades the tweeter to a beryllium one, with a built-in waveguide. The waveguide alone should be a big difference in your setup.

 

[LETRA]

Could you give some more details about the ways in which A26 is different compared to the LS-50 and the Linton? I was considering the KEF R3 Meta or the Super Linton for a similar setup you have (essentially a full-wall bookshelf) but now I am very intrigued by the Seas A26.

For what it's worth, maybe a good upgrade is something somewhat similar to the A26, but higher spec, like
Jeff Baggy helios. It's a bookshelf which shares with the A26 a large but probably improved mid-woofer and upgrades the tweeter to a beryllium one, with a built-in waveguide. The waveguide alone should be a big difference in your setup.

Hi. I will try to explain it to you although I don't speak the audiophile language and I don't know if it will help you. In my opinion the Linton has no bass, or at least it didn't have it in that hole in the room where I put them. The treble is worse than the Seas. And it does have a bit more body in the mids, but compared overall to the Seas A26's it's like a toy speaker. The LS 50 Meta's I had in another room, so the comparison is not exact. These respond well throughout, but below the A26's. And the problem with the A26's is that these have little midrange body and no mid-bass at all. It's not a V-profile, as they say in the headphone world, but the music is not enveloping. It is not, how shall I put it? “a modern speaker”. It sounds extraordinarily good, but it doesn't tickle, it doesn't sound “high end”.

About the kit you recommend, it is very interesting, thank you very much. But I would not buy again something in the line of the A26. It's a very good sound, but it's not what I'm looking for.

 

[Aaron7]

Kef LS50 Meta in right use case is fabulous. I use them in my home office with a sub where I sit 4 feet away. Their imaging you cannot beat. I also use them as my sorounds and ceiling speakers again with a sub. Hence it depends on your use case. In a medium to large size room sitting over 7 feet away with no sub they would not be the right speaker.

 

[Bach]

Overseeing the room and its apparent functions, have you considered buying good headphones? The dog would not mind.

 

[LETRA]

Overseeing the room and its apparent functions, have you considered buying good headphones? The dog would not mind.

She's a dog and loves the music I play I have good headphones and a Topping DX9 and she knows that when I use it I am focused and can't ask me for cuddles

 

[Astoneroad]

Hi @Roland68. Thanks for your help. I hope these photos will help. The listening point is on the right of the first picture, in that chair with its back to the speakers and which is attached to some desks that don't appear in the pictures.

View attachment 405410


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View attachment 405412

I don't know how your room sounds... but I love the way it looks... an inner sanctum. Nice.

 

[LETRA]

I don't know how your room sounds... but I love the way it looks... an inner sanctum. Nice.

Thank you. Bohemian romanticism... But living in such a messy house is not always fun ^

 

[Astoneroad]

Bohemian romanticism...

Dig it.

 

[40th Anniversary]

Thank you @kemmler3D for the suggestions. I had a pair of KEF LS-50 Meta's years ago for months until I sold them and, while they were better in my opinion than the Linton's, they didn't have the quality of the Seas A26 in my living room. Maybe I have to listen to @Roland68 and also to what people say about the Seas on DIY Audio forums. There are few things like the A26s and those start at around the six thousand euro/dollar mark. But no matter how good the speakers are, if they are boxed in a bookshelf they are not going to give a high end sound.

Thanks for your vote for Neumann KH150. The advantage is that I can buy them from a top European shop on Black Friday and, if I'm disappointed, there will be no problem with returns. If I fail, I'll be back on the road to finding better amps and speakers within my budget. I would possibly look for other DIY speakers to improve the Seas, but reviews and measurements are sometimes so theoretically suggestive that I look in all directions.

Hah hah...I own KH 150 and I built the A26 SEAS kit. Love them both for different reasons. The KH150 does well in a small to (max) a medium sized room. Actually does Amazing!!! The A26 is nowhere near the KH150, but it is endearing to listen to over long periods.
PS: my A26 kit is actually built to 35 litres as in dimensions identical to the Dynaco A35 with an aperiodic port out back.