Yeah, it’s been promised for a long time now as far as I know. I believe it when I see it same as everyone else. But in all fairness, not yet released on any D&M platform yet either
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Recommend an AVR / AVP for Dirac ART
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Goodfellas27
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Goodfellas27
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It's out in the wild.
The news has been reverberating all of today. Lots of new, happy ART users on the Denon/Marantz forums.
OP
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So back to my original question of what Avr to get, the Denon x4800h seems like one of the better value options. Around £1600k new in the UK.
Supposedly it's the same as the Marantz cinema 40 which has 95db sinad not amazing but should be transparent.
Would love a av20 but can't justify the additional spend really.
The x3800h has a lower sinad at 86 according to asr so ruling that out. X6800h is more expensive and I think for no gain for me.
Am I missing anything or is x4800h the best sound quality / value option?
Supposedly it's the same as the Marantz cinema 40 which has 95db sinad not amazing but should be transparent.
Would love a av20 but can't justify the additional spend really.
The x3800h has a lower sinad at 86 according to asr so ruling that out. X6800h is more expensive and I think for no gain for me.
Am I missing anything or is x4800h the best sound quality / value option?
Jost Buergi
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I bought the X4800h in 2023 and would do again. For me it's the sweet spot, value wise, if it provides enough channels for the intended case.
3800H is considered by many as best value and shares most of the features and specs with 4800H. Most people would not be troubled with SINAD in this range.
If looking for AVPs, there is apparently AV30 coming, which would still be more expensive than 4800H, but cheaper than AV20.
Fully agreed, if on a tight budget, don't worry about the lowered SINAD measured on ASR's test bench. I would even add my own speculation based notes, that lower number likely under represented the actual number if measured in exactly the same way under exactly the same conditions, it could have been lowered due to certain conditions such as noise introduced at the time for whatever reasons Amir, with due respect, might not have noticed (such as all the grounding involved, we'll seen that happened before.....).
I only mention this because of the past measured results for the 3600 and 3700 vs the SR6014, 7015, 7705, 4800, 6700, enough said, people can do their research, and would know what I am saying what I am saying.
If someone nearby Amir's test bench, and don't want to miss out on the value king X3800H, but still wonder if another sample might measure better such as getting SINAD back in the 90', he/she might (might, because it would be at @amirm 's mercy) have to option to drop one off Amir and beg him to measure it, and then pick it up before the return window expired. My last comment is based on the fact that Amir had measured two samples of the same in the recent past, such as two AV7705 and two AV8805, might have measured two SR7015 two but not 100 sure about that one. So we know he is open to measure more than one sample of the same model.
Can't think of any other AVRs now that can beat the X3800H, except in some cases in Europe, the Cinema 50 could be a better deal if one could get it for not more than $200-$300 and is willing to pay that extra for the HDAMs and gold plated RCA connectors that won't give any sonic advantage, and prefer the aesthetic (like I do) of Marantz's. The thing is, you get 15 channels of pre outs, Dirac Live ART upgradability, XT32 SubEQ HT, most of us know what determine the final perceived sound quality is in order of importance, recording/mastering of the source contents, speakers, room correction/equalization, assuming the DAC/preamps are decent.
I opted for the 3800 over the 4800 for the following reasons:
- They both have the same DACs (feature chasers may be disappointed). Either AVR would make excellent prepros.
- The difference in SINAD b/w the two AVRs will be inaudible for all except ear-splitting levels. Even then, wouldn't external amps be better served at these high dBs?
Observations have been made in the past that simpler vehicles have a higher reliability rate than more complex luxury vehicles...
The former have the maximal benefit of mass production QA processes and the advantage of simplicity (less to go wrong) - the latter tend to have more "craftsman" build to them (lowered opportunity for the formal QA processes, more dependency on hand work, and human failings), as well has just loads more things that can go wrong...
There are down sides to craftsman built luxury items!
Mercedes used to boast that they effectively rebuild many of their cars as a reliability feature... (!!!) - where Toyota simply refined their production line and built them right in the first place.... (and Lexus has consistently ranked lower in "reliability" than Toyota...)
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OP
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Hmm I was leaning towards the 3800 but reading amirs reviews again I think I'd rather spend an extra few hundred to go from 85 - 95db sinad. Perhaps not audible but I've not compromised elsewhere in the system so doesn't feel so good to skimp here.
Wish there was a cheaper Denon preamp!
Anyone selling a 4800 in the UK?
Wish there was a cheaper Denon preamp!
Anyone selling a 4800 in the UK?
Nothing wrong w/getting the 4800 (especially if it is a better match for your system's "look"). I wish you the best of luck!
You read my post so you know why I think you wouldn't likely (yes, there's a chance for sure) be compromised with the X3800H for the reasons I cited, but...
Anyway, looks like it is official now, even the entry level X3800H is upgradable to ART!!
If I can get a good deal on Black Friday, or Christmas sale, I might just get one as backup to my Anthem AVM70. If that happens, I may even sell the AVM70, or use if in one of my two channel stereo setup if I cannot get a good price for the Anthem, I do know it will be easy to sell it though.
OP
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- #37
I did but thought if amir and not spot a grounding issue that drops sinad 10db then there's no chance I'd notice or be able to fix it! I get it's probably not audible but it's getting closer in that direction. I'm used to total piece of mind with my minidsp flex.
There's a stockists expecting some b stock 4800s for a similar price as the 3800 at the end of the month so will wait for that and see if any second hand come up.
That is a good point, in fact I tend to agree with you on that logic. I just took another look, and realized that the issue appeared to be distortion spikes when output is >1.5 Vrms. So now I change my mind, suspecting instead it might have been a sample specific thing, for whatever reasons that seemed hard to explain and am now even wanting more to have a second unit measured by Amir.
Still, one thing to consider, though not for yourself because of the reason you have given, but for others, including me, that is, the odds of having the output goes higher than 1.5 V rms might be near impossible. For example, my power amps have around 29 dB gain, so at 1.5 V, my amps would be outputting 223 W or 446 W 4 ohms, and even when I listen to the maximum spl I can tolerate when watching movies, I would rarely need more than 100 W or 200 W peak, that's 1 Vrms at the most, at such level, I could expect 92 to 95 dB SINAD, pretty sure I couldn't tell a difference until SINAD drops to below 70 dB. So, I am fine in this sense, my Anthem would do 10 dB better on paper, but I am a believer in room correction trumps distortions, when we are talking about better than 70 dB SINAD.
Again, for you, the X4800H would be the way to go, but be careful with the B stock, better ask if it can be exchange or refund without so many days.
OP
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- #39
Getting another 3800 measured would be great for the community as if it does turn out to be unit specific issues it would possibly save people money.
Another practical reason for me going 4800 as my hifi unit isn't quite deep enough for either. The 3800 is 1cm deeper than the 4800.
Thanks for the tip on b stock I'm usually blindly optimistic.
Re your other point I'm running Genelec 8331s (+ 2 subs) currently with input level reduced so source volume is pretty high.
Another practical reason for me going 4800 as my hifi unit isn't quite deep enough for either. The 3800 is 1cm deeper than the 4800.
Thanks for the tip on b stock I'm usually blindly optimistic.
Re your other point I'm running Genelec 8331s (+ 2 subs) currently with input level reduced so source volume is pretty high.
The problem isn't SINAD - it's noise. The measurements here do not put the proper emphasis here - while SINAD is interesting to check how linear und great something works, noise from 13+ speakers is quickly annoying.
Your power amp amplifies every bit of noise from your preamp times 28 and adds it's own noise too. Lowering the power amp gain to 20dB and rise output of the preamp - and it amplifies preamp gain times 10. This helps. Always check your gain staging.
