Recommend an AVR / AVP for Dirac ART

[Harryharryharry]

I've been waiting for ART to be rolled out onto Denon and Marantz and as it sounds near I'm thinking about which unit to buy.

My current setup is Wiim Pro - minidsp flex - Genelec 8331s + 2x SVS SB1000 Pro subs.

I like the small form of these boxes and keeping things digital but appreciate now that probably doesn't effect sound quality.

I'd prefer a AVP but they are a fair bit more expensive for less stuff. I have no need for amps. No intention of adding more subs.

Something I can buy second hand would be good to keep costs down. Don't have a specific budget in mind but don't want to waste money.

I don't know anything about arvs and never owned one so some guidance would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[TheKoC]

Been waiting for ART for a while too

But I would strongly recommend to wait until it is released, and you can read positive feedback from actual users in forums like this one.

 

[Harryharryharry]

I am going to wait until it is actually released just wanted to narrow it down to a likely unit when it is. The existing evidence seems fairly compelling already. But will see what the first full release users say too.

 

[Vincentponcet]

Do not buy on promise. The industry history is full of unrealized promises.

Honestly, it is reasonable to expect that they will deliver an ART update for x800 but then they could say it is not the full ART and the x900 will come with a full ART.

 

[Harryharryharry]

Like I said I'm going to wait but want to have an idea of what time buy when the time comes

 

[TheKoC]

On the Denon lineup I would say the AVR-X3800H is the smallest one that has even a chance of getting ART, since it has 4 independent sub-outs (and pre-outs for all channels, which you will need with active speakers).

 

[smygolf]

Dirac and timelines is a joke.
I would even be surprised if the release ART for Denon/Marantz this year.

 

[Oddball]

If budget is a concern than 3800H as noted would be the least expensive unit as noted above. One can use pre-amp mode which will disconnect the pre-amp section from the amp section which is advisable to reduce the heat and improve the SINAD (did not look at the charts in a while, but believe this is true - check the review on ASR). Amps will still run in idle so not completely inactive, but that is the best one can do with current design.

Not sure why would D&M timelines with Dirac be a joke. When they committed to Dirac Live, they delivered. When they committed to DLBC they delivered. They did not commit to ART until recently and I am confident they will deliver now when they commited. They have been working on ART implementation for 18 mos or so and beta testing for more than a year. In the meantime, Dirac was also working on finalising ART on their end.

It is probably reasonable to expect that D&M implementation of ART will be different than Storm, similarly to their DLBC implementation. To be seen/heard how good it will be. D&M are probably the most serious mainstream AVR/AVP brand, so one would expect that it will work as advertised. Will it be perfect with first release - probably not but that is just how things are. I would doubt that they will release half baked product. More like it will need some seasoning after release.

As far as implementation, even Storm has limit of 500 ART filters and provides a disclaimer that one might run out of filters for large channel count systems combined with large count of speakers in each support group. E.g. if we exclude Atmos and assume 9 large bed speakers and 4 subs, one could end up with 13 ART support groups of 12 speakers. That is a whole lot of numbers to crunch. While D&M has less DSP power than Storm, perhaps they can gain something on the efficiency of their code/implementation (not coder so might be wrong).

 

[smygolf]

Every time they put out that something new is coming - the release is like a year after the date the said.
Also they are pretty quite why the postpone the release.

I love Dirac, have used it for +10 years so it is not that i do not like Dirac (except one stupid thing) and i will get ART for sure.

 

[Oddball]

Every time they put out that something new is coming - the release is like a year after the date the said.
Also they are pretty quite why the postpone the release.

I love Dirac, have used it for +10 years so it is not that i do not like Dirac (except one stupid thing) and i will get ART for sure.

I was talking about Dirac implementation only which if not mistaken was on schedule thus far.

Dirac LIVE + DLBC is definitively very good, quick and simple. I still prefer Audy as provides multiple bass management options and is almost infinitely tweakable, but takes much more time and REW to do it right. But if ART really works as advertised, then will gladly convert.

 

[dlaloum]

As others have said, best to wait until it is properly on the market.... hopefully on a wider range of brands rather than just Storm and D&M.

I'm waiting to see... what happens with Onkyo/Integra, NAD, and others - and what the reviews say.

 

[masterhw]

Marantz AV30 is coming, though on no hard timeline. Sounds like it might be the best option if you can wait.

 

[TheKoC]

Unless one is willing to shell out Storm Audio - money, waiting is the only option

 

[Derboy]

Available on Denon and Marantz before the end of the year apparently. Any model that is capable of Bass Control will be upgradeable to ART according to Dirac.

Not sure what it is on Denon but, the cheapest available Marantz that has it is the Cinema 50.

 

[dlaloum]

Available on Denon and Marantz before the end of the year apparently. Any model that is capable of Bass Control will be upgradeable to ART according to Dirac.

Not sure what it is on Denon but, the cheapest available Marantz that has it is the Cinema 50.

I thought Dirac's words were more cautious than that... from memory something along the lines of "any model that is capable in processor capabilities terms of hosting DLBC, should be able to handle DLART" - which is no guarantee that the AVR vendor enables that option/upgrade - it merely tells us that the processor has the bandwidth / power / memory needed, but the firmware still has to be enabled for it... and whether a manufacturer enables it on a particular platform, may well relate to marketing issues rather than engineering capabilities.

However, D&M have committed to it for all the AV models from the X3800h and up.

 

[Derboy]

I thought Dirac's words were more cautious than that... from memory something along the lines of "any model that is capable in processor capabilities terms of hosting DLBC, should be able to handle DLART" - which is no guarantee that the AVR vendor enables that option/upgrade - it merely tells us that the processor has the bandwidth / power / memory needed, but the firmware still has to be enabled for it... and whether a manufacturer enables it on a particular platform, may well relate to marketing issues rather than engineering capabilities.

However, D&M have committed to it for all the AV models from the X3800h and up.

It doesn’t make much sense, from a commercial standpoint, for a manufacturer to have invested in the licensing and the firmware development to withhold it from models that are capable of it. It’s lost revenue for them.

The upgrades for DLBC and ART are at a price point designed to gain additional revenue from existing owners, rather than push those owners to upgrade to a more expensive unit. If you look at Dirac’s adverts on which Denon and Marantz models are getting it, I’d be very surprised if there’s any DLBC models not included in the list (certainly all Marantz DLBC models are listed).

As for other manufacturers, it’s a question of whether they’ll get it at all, rather than what models they’ll enable it on. Generally they all follow the same architecture and so firmware development is usually applicable across a product range rather than per-unit.

I can’t see it appearing on Pioneer models, for example, given that PAC have now dropped the Pioneer license.

 

[EWL5]

It doesn’t make much sense, from a commercial standpoint, for a manufacturer to have invested in the licensing and the firmware development to withhold it from models that are capable of it. It’s lost revenue for them.

The upgrades for DLBC and ART are at a price point designed to gain additional revenue from existing owners, rather than push those owners to upgrade to a more expensive unit. If you look at Dirac’s adverts on which Denon and Marantz models are getting it, I’d be very surprised if there’s any DLBC models not included in the list (certainly all Marantz DLBC models are listed).

As for other manufacturers, it’s a question of whether they’ll get it at all, rather than what models they’ll enable it on. Generally they all follow the same architecture and so firmware development is usually applicable across a product range rather than per-unit.

I can’t see it appearing on Pioneer models, for example, given that PAC have now dropped the Pioneer license.

Unlike the PAC units (Onkyo, Pioneer, Integra), all Dirac-capable models on D&M just also happen to support DLBC!

Agreed that the current owners will make the best customer-base and there's no reason to expect that D&M has to "turn on" the capability to make an AVR that can already do DLBC to also do ART.

 

[Raj21p]

If you’re looking to get Dirac ART without spending too much, the Denon X3800H or X4800H is a solid choice affordable, future-ready, and works perfectly as a pre-pro.

 

[MKR]

Monoprice HTP1 … per those in the know, ART is coming to the HTP

 

[Oddball]

Monoprice HTP1 … per those in the know, ART is coming to the HTP

Not to nuke the positive news but when is the key point. And then how is another milestone to consider.