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Recapping a Casio MG-510 - ESR question

Skezza

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Jan 16, 2021
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I know this isn't specifically Audio Visual equipment, but it's kind of related and guitar forums are unlikely to be much help here, so hoping you can :)

I have just purchased a Casio MG-510.

The way these guitars work, is they have a Hexaphonic pickup which is the same as a normal humbucking guitar pickup but has 12 low-impedance coils (about 0.5Kohm) rather than 2, which essentially detects all of the strings individually. Each signal is then fed through an individual analogue processing circuit and then into a digital signal processing circuit which then feeds it out the MIDI port and into your chosen synthesizer/computer soundcard.

These guitars are nearly 40 years old now and rare as heck... There is nothing quite like them out there, as these use the general Midi output rather than the proprietary nonsense Roland and other manufacturers use. Most are also starting to fail, with the same issue, which is that the electrolytic capacitors leak or die.

Mine mostly works which is brilliant, but the B string is totally dead. No sound or reaction at all. I believe i've narrowed it down to the analogue processing board, as I would expect all strings to be impacted if the DSP board had failed.

I ran my multimeter set to Ohms across all of the caps on the analogue board. All of them show a reading, except for one which shows infinite resistance.... I go down the schematic and sure enough, it's an electrolytic cap in the circuit for the B string... So I think replacing it will fix it. However, I also figured that I would just buy a whole new batch of caps and perhaps do the whole lot and future proof it.

I'm going through Mouser adding caps to my basket. I wanted Panasonic, as they are the originals but I've ended up mostly with Nichicon or Wurth.

Most don't call out the ESR but this one does:


33 uF and has a ESR of 2.33 Ohms.... is that high ? Is that something to be concerned by? The fact none of the others have called it out, is kind of confusing?

On the analogue board, I believe the caps are for a Band-Pass Filter and then Gain Controller.

Do I need to think more logically about this approach, i.e. should I be looking for equivalent part numbers rather than just general replacements? One thing I noted from the parts list, most of these caps have been out of manufacture for well over 20 years, so finding equivalents would be tricky. I have all of the specifications though.

Thanks
 

Audiofire

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I know this isn't specifically Audio Visual equipment, but it's kind of related and guitar forums are unlikely to be much help here, so hoping you can :)

I have just purchased a Casio MG-510.

The way these guitars work, is they have a Hexaphonic pickup which is the same as a normal humbucking guitar pickup but has 12 low-impedance coils (about 0.5Kohm) rather than 2, which essentially detects all of the strings individually. Each signal is then fed through an individual analogue processing circuit and then into a digital signal processing circuit which then feeds it out the MIDI port and into your chosen synthesizer/computer soundcard.

These guitars are nearly 40 years old now and rare as heck... There is nothing quite like them out there, as these use the general Midi output rather than the proprietary nonsense Roland and other manufacturers use. Most are also starting to fail, with the same issue, which is that the electrolytic capacitors leak or die.

Mine mostly works which is brilliant, but the B string is totally dead. No sound or reaction at all. I believe i've narrowed it down to the analogue processing board, as I would expect all strings to be impacted if the DSP board had failed.

I ran my multimeter set to Ohms across all of the caps on the analogue board. All of them show a reading, except for one which shows infinite resistance.... I go down the schematic and sure enough, it's an electrolytic cap in the circuit for the B string... So I think replacing it will fix it. However, I also figured that I would just buy a whole new batch of caps and perhaps do the whole lot and future proof it.

I'm going through Mouser adding caps to my basket. I wanted Panasonic, as they are the originals but I've ended up mostly with Nichicon or Wurth.

Most don't call out the ESR but this one does:


33 uF and has a ESR of 2.33 Ohms.... is that high ? Is that something to be concerned by? The fact none of the others have called it out, is kind of confusing?

On the analogue board, I believe the caps are for a Band-Pass Filter and then Gain Controller.

Do I need to think more logically about this approach, i.e. should I be looking for equivalent part numbers rather than just general replacements? One thing I noted from the parts list, most of these caps have been out of manufacture for well over 20 years, so finding equivalents would be tricky. I have all of the specifications though.

Thanks
I've covered the basics comprehensively here:

An ohm reading on a multimeter from a low value to infinity indicates, that the electrolytic capacitor is working. A multimeter reading that stays very low indicates a short circuit, and very high indicates an open circuit, which are both failure modes for electrolytic capacitors. ESR is not what you measured with a multimeter.

You don't need to measure, since electrolytic capacitors are all close to a failure mode at that age. The ESR is not given in spec sheets, because it can be calculated from the dissipation factor (tangent of the loss angle). The only requirements for the replacements are physical dimensions, approximately the same capacitance, as well as the same or higher voltage. Keep in mind that polarized capacitors must be installed with the same polarity as the originals.
 
Last edited:

amm

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Feb 23, 2021
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Hello Skezza,

Firstly, using an Ohmmeter to check capacitors while they are in the circuit, is not a sure way for determining if they are good or bad (unless you see a short and have the circuit schematic to see what is in shunt with the capacitor). You need to take the caps out of the circuit to test them based on what suggested by Audiofire. If the caps have lost some of their capacity, then Ohmmeter test may not be that useful anyway (you can get some idea by observing how fast resistance increases but that requires some experience, depends on the cap value, also typically analog multimeters can be more useful for this test than the digital ones). An LCR meter is the best way to check them. Do you see any leakage of electrolyte around the capacitors on the board, if so this is a sure sign that they are not good.

If you would like to to change the capacitors because they are old, and to put your mind at ease, of course you can do so. I doubt ESR matters much in your case, but if you are worry, you can find equivalent capacitors (capacitance value and voltage) with lowest ESR value. It will cost you a little more but it will eliminate one source of worry. To learn about the impact of ESR on circuits, please see (again I doubt if this matters at all in your case):


Hope this helps.
 
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