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Reasonably priced streaming integrated with dsp

cdkpdx

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I'm a new poster but have been reading ASReview for a few years, about time I joined. I am looking to upgrade from Powernode that I'm using to integrated with dsp and more power. What I am looking for is recommendation for a good:
* one box solution
* streaming integrated amp
* with dsp
* 100w/channel
* good quality hypex or purifi type amp
* damping factor of 150+
* input for turntable ( good MC phono preamp would be a plus )
* for less than $3000.
The NAD M33 seems to tick all these boxes, but at double the price I'd like to (and even seems reasonable) to need to spend. I notice things like the Yamaha 803 reviewed here, but seems using dsp heavily degrades sound quality. Yamaha WXA 50 doesn't do all I want and too underpowered.
Maybe my feature list is too much to ask at my price point? Or maybe the market is still developing this alternative? I don't feel the need to have the absolute best testing/measuring option. Going for good enough where I won't hear the difference through my somewhat easy to drive Harbeth C7 XD's. I've looked at:
* Arcam SA30
* Lyngdorf 1120
* NAD M10 or maybe new c399
But none tick all the boxes. My list of features seems like the sort of offering that would be quite popular, maybe you all can direct me towards a needle in the haystack I've missed so far? Thx.
 
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cdkpdx

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There are many explanations from various sources. Not really sure how much of a difference we can hear with damping factor but generally it seems higher gives better control of speakers, especially bass. Here is an example explanation from KEF website:

" Damping Factor (DF) is the amplifier’s ability to control speaker motion once a signal has stopped. Technically speaking, Damping Factor is the ratio of nominal loudspeaker impedance (the impedance the loudspeaker is rated at) to total output impedance of the system driving the loudspeaker, including the amplifier and cables.
Damping Factor changes with frequency (as does impedance) and is most noticeable at lower frequencies. A high DF typically results in a tighter, more controlled bass, which is usually (but not always) more desirable from a listener’s point-of-view. Low DF results in soft or fat bass."

The question for me is can something like the Lyngdorf 1120 with relatively low power and damping factor more than compensate with what seems like excellent room correction feature which would be most helpful in lower end of frequency range?
 

pogo

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The question for me is can something like the Lyngdorf 1120 with relatively low power and damping factor more than compensate with what seems like excellent room correction feature which would be most helpful in lower end of frequency range?
Here is the measured DF from both channels (diagram at the end):
Link

From my experience it depends on the speakers used, whereby a low DF may subjectively even compensate for deficits of speakers.
My speakers, for example, need a high DF, otherwise my low bass range sounds spongy and my room modes are unnecessarily excited. With a higher DF I need less DSP correction and details are less masked.
RP from Lyngdorf can normalize the levels in the low frequency range, but may not bring back the masked details if the speakers used require a higher DF.

This might also interest you in this context:
Link
 
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cdkpdx

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Thx,
I'd seen that review and was surprised at the difference between the right and left channel and why that would be with a seemingly well designed digital amp? And would these differences be audible with close listening? My Harbeth C7xd speakers are a relatively benign load to drive.
 

Jim Matthews

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MiniDSP makes an interesting product, offered at $1600 USD.

 

pogo

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upgrade from Powernode
If you have a newer model here, you can still use this as a surround amplifier (rear-Channels) in conjunction with the new NAD M10 V2.
 

Glen20

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I'm a new poster but have been reading ASReview for a few years, about time I joined. I am looking to upgrade from Powernode that I'm using to integrated with dsp and more power. What I am looking for is recommendation for a good:
* one box solution
* streaming integrated amp
* with dsp
* 100w/channel
* good quality hypex or purifi type amp
* damping factor of 150+
* input for turntable ( good MC phono preamp would be a plus )
* for less than $3000.
The NAD M33 seems to tick all these boxes, but at double the price I'd like to (and even seems reasonable) to need to spend. I notice things like the Yamaha 803 reviewed here, but seems using dsp heavily degrades sound quality. Yamaha WXA 50 doesn't do all I want and too underpowered.
Maybe my feature list is too much to ask at my price point? Or maybe the market is still developing this alternative? I don't feel the need to have the absolute best testing/measuring option. Going for good enough where I won't hear the difference through my somewhat easy to drive Harbeth C7 XD's. I've looked at:
* Arcam SA30
* Lyngdorf 1120
* NAD M10 or maybe new c399
But none tick all the boxes. My list of features seems like the sort of offering that would be quite popular, maybe you all can direct me towards a needle in the haystack I've missed so far? Thx.
“Maybe my feature list is too much to ask at my price point?”

Yes I believe it is.

If you give up on the idea of a one one box solution. You will get better performance for less $$
The more electronics that are crammed into a box the lower the performance seems to be due to shielding issues.
If you don’t your choice is
Nad M33 or
Upcoming DeqX LS-1 Integrated Power which will be more $$$ again

The best bang for buck features you want seem to be from
Topping ,SMSL ,buckeye ,minidsp and parks puffin phono .

I use SMSL SU-9n dac (use as preamp) and Parks puffin phono with coax (to dac)

You could make a box to put all the separates in for less size and much less $$ than a nad m33 and use a $25 Budget Touch screen phone to connect to wifi to use as streamer.
 
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cdkpdx

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“Maybe my feature list is too much to ask at my price point?”

Yes I believe it is.

If you give up on the idea of a one one box solution. You will get better performance for less $$
The more electronics that are crammed into a box the lower the performance seems to be due to shielding issues.
If you don’t your choice is
Nad M33 or
Upcoming DeqX LS-1 Integrated Power which will be more $$$ again

The best bang for buck features you want seem to be from
Topping ,SMSL ,buckeye ,minidsp and parks puffin phono .

I use SMSL SU-9n dac (use as preamp) and Parks puffin phono with coax (to dac)

You could make a box to put all the separates in for less size and much less $$ than a nad m33 and use a $25 Budget Touch screen phone to connect to wifi to use as streamer.
I really appreciate the perspective you share here. It's one I've pondered. But at this point I've come down more on the side of a streaming integrated with some dsp, which I think I can find used for less than $2000, like NAD M10

A key learning, as I've reflected back on the many amps I've owned over the decades, is that I could discern little if any difference in the sound between amps in my home. I do love that ASR reviews equipment with an eye on lowest distortion.

For me, it's more about getting features I'm looking for in one box, as most decently designed amps I can't perceive distortion levels, and sound more than good enough.
 
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Deleted member 23424

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Yamaha RN803D. On Peter Tyson for £579 at the moment.
 
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cdkpdx

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I considered this but want to be able to use the dsp feature and Amirm review here suggested that using this function on the amp degrades the performance:

"...As a pure, analog integrated amplifier, the Yamaha R-N803 does well. It produces ample amount of power into 4 ohm with pretty low distortion and noise. The visuals are also quite attractive. Digital mode to use such things as Auto-EQ/filters is rather poor due to similar issues in many AVRs. Sad that Yamaha did not go the extra mile and produce a better subsystem here..."

So the question for me is whether this degradation is something one could actually hear with revealing speakers (Harbeth C7xd) and source (Tidal Hifi) ?
 

Staki

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SHD Power does not have an analog input, so it does not check the "input for turntable" box. It would have to be a 3-box solution, phono preamp + SHD + power amp. But then you can be quite flexible with the power amp and choose from the range between NC122MP (which will still check all the boxes, but be way below the designated budget) all the way up to a Purifi (which will still fit the budget, but you'll be way beyond the nominal power requirement and have a SOTA solution). And anything in between.
 

Glen20

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Dam! I thought I was a genius for a moment with my custom one box solution. It only works if your onebox criteria is weighted for aesthetics / warranty rather than initial faff. But if going dsp and streaming there will be faff with initial setup anyway. And warranty out with 2nd hand options

A cheaper combo, I also thought of with set and forget imputs was. (which may interest others if not you)(I haven’t read the artdj manual to see if this would work)
1.Buckeye amp in large heatsink case from https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/19-chassis-with-heatsink-c-87.html

2. Artdj phono plus https://artproaudio.com/product/usb-phono-plus-project-series/
3. Minidsp-2x4 hd https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd
4. Allo boss2 streamer dac for volume control. https://www.allo.com/sparky/boss2-player.html#features
 
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