Really pleased with my 8030c's, now for some room treatment.

[UpTheSwanny]

Hello, I've just got a pair of Genelec 8030c on the basis of the review and comments on here. I'm now interested in some treatment too. I've hung a really thick quilt behind me in my 10 feet x 6.5 feet room. the quilt is along the long wall. I've hung something similar along the opposite wall between the monitors. I'm pleasantly surprised by the difference.

I've completed a form on the GIK website for them to suggest an acoustic solution. There are no audio measurements involved. Just wondered if others have found their solutions worthwhile. I chose the 2 way listening solution, although I am a musician and have recorded acoustic guitars in the past. Would this kind of treatment be useful for recording? Although I can't play at the moment due to partial paralysis in my hands.

Thank you.

 

[alex-z]

The majority of all room acoustic problems occur below the Schroederfrequency, the point at which your room starts having low wavelength reflections known as room modes.

amroc - THE Room Mode Calculator

HTML5 room mode calculator. Read and hear the tune of axial, tangential and oblique modes. Scientific sources included.

amcoustics.com

A 10x6.5x8ft room is fairly small and will have problems up until 400Hz.

As general rule, everything above 100Hz can be treated with sufficiently thick panels, such as the GIK Acoustics 244, which is 5.25" thick. Certain products like their Soffit Bass Trap can work down to 60Hz due to the 17" thickness. Anything below 60Hz needs to be managed with multiple subwoofers.

Thinner products (including the quilt you used) will only impact mid and high frequencies, reducing the overall decay time of the room, but leaving the sound unbalanced. Use a measurement mic at your seating position to determine how your decay times are behaving across the spectrum, you want it balanced. Just don't read too much into the RT60 metric, that is not directly applicable for small rooms.

Diffusion is situation dependent. It will only work in a narrow frequency band, and requires more space for the proper effect. In such a small room I would skip it entirely.

You can build your own panels for considerably less than GIK charges, with mineral wool, wood frames, and some fabric of your choice. I would recommend this route, because GIK Acoustics has some backordering right now, I did a consultation with a client a month ago and they are still waiting on their panels.

 

[Glen20]

Congrats on the great choice.(My8030c’s arrived today. So that was as much as a compliment to me ,as it was to you).
I have made and bought room treatment products.
I have a significant amount of 2nd ear Auralex
Room treatment can come at a great aesthetic cost if it is in the main living area. And $$ cost if buying off the shelf. And $$$ cost if get divorced.
If you diy you can choose a colour that will result in acoustic,aesthetic and significant other harmony
Don’t forget to enjoy the music, as well as the upgrades.
Here is some diy links that I found that may help.
http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm
https://www.hertzlovers.com/acoustic-panels/ultrafusor
https://patents.justia.com/inventor/glenn-kuras
https://witchdoctor.co.nz/index.php/2020/12/bass-traps-everything-you-need-to-know/

 

[UpTheSwanny]

thanks for the replies, I appreciate that.

I'm in the UK, is this stuff what I'd use?

insulation

or this?

 

[Glen20]

thanks for the replies, I appreciate that.

I'm in the UK, is this stuff what I'd use?

insulation

or this?

I have used similar in the past and it worked ( ie it had a positive effect but didn’t measure it). It is fibre glass so it is an irritant to your lungs and skin. Don’t get tricked by the “WOOL” It is glass. And it is in Your living room etc. not in a wall. Also may it may release formaldehyde which is carcinogenic. Foam insulation will have fire retardant which is also very very carcinogenic.( used in all uk soft furnishings. And has been called the most dangerous chemical in our homes). Lambs Wool will have additives to stop carpet lice eating it.
I will not go for fibre glass again. And I Probably don’t want any more foam as I have heaps. (But our furnishings don’t have retardant.

 

[UpTheSwanny]

thanks again Glen for your input.

Are you liking your monitors?

 

[Glen20]

thanks again Glen for your input.

Are you liking your monitors?

Very very pleased. They only got delivered 6 hours ago. So haven’t sorted the dip switches and placement etc. I bought these blind(or deaf) as had to preorder them and no audition available. My other option was ls50meta and repair a prima luna tube amp.
No regrets. A
How about you?

 

[alex-z]

thanks for the replies, I appreciate that.

I'm in the UK, is this stuff what I'd use?

insulation

or this?

The earthwool isn't true mineral wool, it has glass fibres. I prefer to avoid that, especially if someone might bump into the panels and release some fibres.

The rockwool is the stuff I recommend and use myself. It has no long term health risks, at least according to the datasheet and few studies available.

 

[DSJR]

I'm no qualified acoustic expert, but one I did have a goodly chat to suggested that you please don't kill the room reflections stone dead and to leave the speaker side of the room slightly more live than the listening side. I experienced a once 'tandem garage' conversion and have to say the cheaper speakers I heard (cheapest were now vintage Heybrook HB1's which any UK readers will remember) sounded glorious - better than I'd ever heard them - and surprisingly, the supposedly 'better' ones did too, but not multiple times the price better! Maybe this could be a benefit of the treated room not adding to dispersion issues ion the speakers played?

Many ordinary rooms with professional treatments I remember, have the damping pads mounted higher up and above the listening plane. Walking around the room and clapping one's hands will give a fair if amateur perception of problem areas I think. UK rooms can be like 'reflective brick and plaster concrete boxes' or a hybrid concrete/plaster-board-stud type with less a purely timber frame construction as in other countries (which can help with bass absorption I'm told) and it'll probably be that your solution will be different to others here.

Lastly, I'd say you may not have the largest difficulty bearing in mind the speakers you've chosen apart from the bass, but you have the little dip switches on the Genelecs which may well aid if not cure any bass issues (ducking bass down by a notch or so will help distortion too I think). I wish you all the best with them

 

[UpTheSwanny]

Hi, should I get a Umik1 to measure the room? Along with REW.

 

[UpTheSwanny]

My friend down the street will make my frames. He’s a carpenter by trade.

 

[Roland]

I'm no qualified acoustic expert, but one I did have a goodly chat to suggested that you please don't kill the room reflections stone dead and to leave the speaker side of the room slightly more live than the listening side. I experienced a once 'tandem garage' conversion and have to say the cheaper speakers I heard (cheapest were now vintage Heybrook HB1's which any UK readers will remember) sounded glorious - better than I'd ever heard them - and surprisingly, the supposedly 'better' ones did too, but not multiple times the price better! Maybe this could be a benefit of the treated room not adding to dispersion issues ion the speakers played?

Many ordinary rooms with professional treatments I remember, have the damping pads mounted higher up and above the listening plane. Walking around the room and clapping one's hands will give a fair if amateur perception of problem areas I think. UK rooms can be like 'reflective brick and plaster concrete boxes' or a hybrid concrete/plaster-board-stud type with less a purely timber frame construction as in other countries (which can help with bass absorption I'm told) and it'll probably be that your solution will be different to others here.

Lastly, I'd say you may not have the largest difficulty bearing in mind the speakers you've chosen apart from the bass, but you have the little dip switches on the Genelecs which may well aid if not cure any bass issues (ducking bass down by a notch or so will help distortion too I think). I wish you all the best with them

Heybrook HB1s really were excellent, but it was difficult to work out why! I believe that Wilmslow Audio do an updated version.

 

[LTig]

Hi, should I get a Umik1 to measure the room? Along with REW.

Yes. It takes some time to get used to it but the results are definitely worth it.

 

[UpTheSwanny]

Yes. It takes some time to get used to it but the results are definitely worth it.

Thanks LTig, just ordered one. Expensive in the UK £129. $79 in the US. I don’t mind if I get the results.

Is this as good?

Just watched a YT video, if I understand correctly, I can change the eq curve for my focusrite Scarlett if I use a third party eq app? I’m on Mac so eq APO is out.

I apologise for my ignorance, I’m new to this. I’ve read and will follow the REW tutorial on here.

Thanks again.

 

[UpTheSwanny]

Very very pleased. They only got delivered 6 hours ago. So haven’t sorted the dip switches and placement etc. I bought these blind(or deaf) as had to preorder them and no audition available. My other option was ls50meta and repair a prima luna tube amp.
No regrets. A
How about you?

I'm just blown away. The depth on well recorded and produced music is breathtaking. Acoustic guitar and vocals are especially beautiful, woodwind too imho.

I have dip-switches 1 and 5 set to on. Against the wall and desktop, although they're on stands above the desktop. I wouldn't want any more bass than I've got. Just listening to Allan Taylor, a British singer-songwriter, seen him live several times but never listened to his recordings, they sound amazing to my ear on these monitors.

I'm also liking Damian Rice, My Favourite Faded Fantasy.

 

[UpTheSwanny]

The majority of all room acoustic problems occur below the Schroederfrequency, the point at which your room starts having low wavelength reflections known as room modes.

amroc - THE Room Mode Calculator​

HTML5 room mode calculator. Read and hear the tune of axial, tangential and oblique modes. Scientific sources included.
amcoustics.com

A 10x6.5x8ft room is fairly small and will have problems up until 400Hz.

As general rule, everything above 100Hz can be treated with sufficiently thick panels, such as the GIK Acoustics 244, which is 5.25" thick. Certain products like their Soffit Bass Trap can work down to 60Hz due to the 17" thickness. Anything below 60Hz needs to be managed with multiple subwoofers.

Thinner products (including the quilt you used) will only impact mid and high frequencies, reducing the overall decay time of the room, but leaving the sound unbalanced. Use a measurement mic at your seating position to determine how your decay times are behaving across the spectrum, you want it balanced. Just don't read too much into the RT60 metric, that is not directly applicable for small rooms.

Diffusion is situation dependent. It will only work in a narrow frequency band, and requires more space for the proper effect. In such a small room I would skip it entirely.

You can build your own panels for considerably less than GIK charges, with mineral wool, wood frames, and some fabric of your choice. I would recommend this route, because GIK Acoustics has some backordering right now, I did a consultation with a client a month ago and they are still waiting on their panels.

Wow Thanks Alex.

 

[Dialectic]

Hello, I've just got a pair of Genelec 8030c on the basis of the review and comments on here. I'm now interested in some treatment too. I've hung a really thick quilt behind me in my 10 feet x 6.5 feet room. the quilt is along the long wall. I've hung something similar along the opposite wall between the monitors. I'm pleasantly surprised by the difference.

I've completed a form on the GIK website for them to suggest an acoustic solution. There are no audio measurements involved. Just wondered if others have found their solutions worthwhile. I chose the 2 way listening solution, although I am a musician and have recorded acoustic guitars in the past. Would this kind of treatment be useful for recording? Although I can't play at the moment due to partial paralysis in my hands.

Thank you.

The GIK panels perform well. When I bought panels circa two years ago now, they seemed to be the most cost-effective solution, with better performance than the slightly cheaper ATS panels but worse low-frequency attenuation than the much more expensive solutions offered by RPG.

Quality was a mixed bag for me, but Glenn promptly got in touch with me and remedied the problems. The panels have been relatively robust in use, with no major problems. One panel that was briefly exposed to a small amount of water (and promptly dried) is permanently warped and discolored.

I don't think the GIK form for getting their suggestions is particularly useful. The details of what treatments you will need depend on the details of your application and your goals for the system. Treating first-reflection points with absorbers, however, seems mostly uncontroversial, and I would do only that at the outset.

 

[DSJR]

Heybrook HB1s really were excellent, but it was difficult to work out why! I believe that Wilmslow Audio do an updated version.

Best not soil the thread (too much ) but later HB1's as I heard that day, could sound spitty and with an 'exposed' Vifa soft dome tweeter crossed over quite high with preceding suckout as measured a few times in HiFi Choice, not sure it'd do so well today with digital as a main source. I suspect the carefully objectively treated room helped so much here.

Quick conclusion and regarding the Genelecs as a brand (and maybe the better coax drivers as a whole), is that sorting out the dispersion patterns as best as possible maybe helps non-treated rooms to work as best they can where more conventional speakers with issues (which means an alarming number of UK made models past and present it seems) may need more help with treating the listening room?

 

[UpTheSwanny]

Preceding suckout? Never heard of that. Does it feel nice? ;o)

 

[Glen20]

I'm just blown away. The depth on well recorded and produced music is breathtaking. Acoustic guitar and vocals are especially beautiful, woodwind too imho.

I have dip-switches 1 and 5 set to on. Against the wall and desktop, although they're on stands above the desktop. I wouldn't want any more bass than I've got. Just listening to Allan Taylor, a British singer-songwriter, seen him live several times but never listened to his recordings, they sound amazing to my ear on these monitors.

I'm also liking Damian Rice, My Favourite Faded Fantasy.

I have only moved the dips once as I am enjoying listening to them so much with all sorts of music. Rather than to re listen critically etc which I may do tonight.

My favourite album of recent past and a good representation of my current taste is an electronic jazz classical stew. The piano strings and saxophone sound fantastic

Promises
Studio album by Floating Points, London Symphony Orchestra, and Pharoah Sanders

Birth4000, by Floating Points

1 track album

floatingpoints.bandcamp.com

I liked the live Damian Rice version. Thanks