Really Expensive Speakers: Overrated For Mixing And Mastering

[tmtomh]

Popularity does not equal greatness. But "Dont Worry, Be Happy"

That's an instructive example, actually. Personally I can't stand that song either, but in addition to the fact that it was a huge hit, the layered a capella voices are actually musically pretty complex, and McFerrin and the folks he worked with on it are highly accomplished and skilled musicians. So yes, we can make a strong argument that the lyrics are insipid. But beyond that it's an aesthetic judgment that IMHO is purely subjective.

"Don't Worry Be Happy" Revisited: A Little Song Bobby McFerrin Wrote Topped The Charts 30 Years Ago This Week

If you’re going to use the Hot 100 to discern the state of radio-listening (and streaming) Americans, it’s generally better to consider the chart in aggregate, rather than focusing on the top. I think of it like this: Any given chart run has a certain chemical makeup, depending on whatever fumes...

www.stereogum.com

 

[Adis]

No, but if tons of people enjoy something, who are we to cast judgement of the inherent quality of whatever it may be? This is a bit off topic probably.

What are we, laymen?

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Mixing isn't quality related is it? That is the mastering.
The mixing just takes whatever quality is in the master and applies it so?

no, this isn't how it works

 

[G|force]

Tracking>Mixing>Mastering

 

[Cbdb2]

Composing, arranging, playing, tracking, mixing, mastering. I think many people dont realize how important the first three are for sound quality. For instance, sloppy guitar (off key strings ringing) especially bass can turn a track to mush and cant really be fixed in the mix.

 

[G|force]

Composing, arranging, playing, tracking, mixing, mastering. I think many people dont realize how important the first three are for sound quality. For instance, sloppy guitar (off key strings ringing) especially bass can turn a track to mush and cant really be fixed in the mix.

I was referring to the sequence of engineering roles, but there is also some artistry in all of these.

 

[Cbdb2]

I was referring to the sequence of engineering roles, but there is also some artistry in all of these.

I guess my point was that the engineers are not always to blame for bad sounding recordings.

 

[goat76]

There are objective measures for speaker quality; they’re reproduction devices. Songs are the creative productions that speakers are supposed to reproduce.

It’s interesting that so many folks who think they’re clever fall into this same conflation of production and reproduction, music and hi-fi gear, and thereby demonstrate that they’re not.

Yes, some folks seem to have problem understanding the difference you are referring to, but I’m sure most people do.

 

[wwenze]

That makes me wonder sometimes how much weight we really should put on measurements. I mean, if our ears are really that poor measuring devices, why should we even bother in the first place to ensure we are hearing things correctly, as long as we enjoy the sound we are hearing?
Is the confirmation of correctness really that important?

Accuracy and consistency. Different speaker companies decide all speakers to sound alike.

We have target curves too, btw.

 

[carlosatl]

Haha, touché!

McDonalds is a big hit also ? But it does not equal gourmet, nor is it mom's cooking.

 

[sigbergaudio]

McDonalds is a big hit also ? But it does not equal gourmet, nor is it mom's cooking.

No, but that doesn't make it a bad product. It's a consistent delivery that many people enjoy.

 

[carlosatl]

No, but that doesn't make it a bad product. It's a consistent delivery that many people enjoy.

That is all one can really say, nothing more nothing less. You said exactly what I mean. You can live with or without it. It's just there

 

[sigbergaudio]

That is all one can really say, nothing more nothing less. You said exactly what I mean. You can live with or without it. It's just there

Sure, but I don't think it's a good analogy to popular songs. There are all sorts of reasons why people like music, they perhaps relate it to strong memories from their youth, or maybe it was just popular during a period where they were partying a lot, or they happen to relate to the lyrics, or whatever else it might be. Some of it may not be Mozart quality compositions, some actually might be pretty well produced and composed even though you don't happen to like it.

I'm not a great fan of passing judgement on creative work. That I don't like doesn't necessarily make it objectively bad.

 

[wwenze]

If I were to choose between having all the caviar and foi gras and escargot in the world disappear vs having McDonald's disappear, I would choose the French

 

[Scytales]

If you only knew how many times I've heard technicians who kept adjusting the volume during recordings justify their changes with "but it's for radio, so it has to be adapted to listening on a radio or in the car..." when all they're asked to do is record as best they can... and let those whose job it is to send the transmitters a reasonably dynamically compressed signal for FM...

We also had to fight against others who did the same during live broadcasts with records, with disasters resulting: the pianissimo beginning of a work: they pick it up... but don't know that a fortissimo follows: thus clipping... and the on-air compressor loses its footing...

Well, it's the same thing: the NS 10 can't serve as a basis for supposedly good sound on a car radio, but an excellent monitor speaker will produce good sound on all listening equipment...

I have just listened to the Orchestre de l'ORTF (future Radio France) recording of Shostakovitch's 8th symphony conducted by Kirill Kondrashin (1969) distributed on SACD by the Japan label Altus and I was appalled by the management of the sound volume during the highly modulated passages. That completely kills the enjoyment of this otherwise remarkable interpretation (with an absolutely stunning woodwind section ! The lead trumpeter in the famous solo of the 3rd movement sadly less so...). This is a plague affecting so many radio recordings, no only from the ORTF/Radio France. Many NHK (Japan) radio recordings I have bought also suffered the same fate.

I will never understand why radio recordings have not been made flat, at least for an archival version, and limited or compressed at a later stage to be put on air. The practice of managing the limiting/compression during recording have wreaked havoc on so many important musical materials.

 

[Adis]

Tape has limited dynamic range - gotta ride the faders while recording.

 

[Talisman]

Sure, but I don't think it's a good analogy to popular songs. There are all sorts of reasons why people like music, they perhaps relate it to strong memories from their youth, or maybe it was just popular during a period where they were partying a lot, or they happen to relate to the lyrics, or whatever else it might be. Some of it may not be Mozart quality compositions, some actually might be pretty well produced and composed even though you don't happen to like it.

I'm not a great fan of passing judgement on creative work. That I don't like doesn't necessarily make it objectively bad.

Gangnam style

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I will never understand why radio recordings have not been made flat, at least for an archival version, and limited or compressed at a later stage to be put on air.

Simple answer - they were broadcast live via a single desk (perhaps in a mobile Outside Broadcast vehicle) and therefore the only mix available, which was recorded to stereo (not multitrack) tape for posterity and for later rebroadcast. The liveness was the important thing. PS. Been there, done that.

The vast majority of domestic listening is done with relatively high background noise. The quietest music is simply too quiet for this, so the producer or engineer has the score in front of them and "gain rides" the faders, slowly reducing levels as music moves from ppp to fff. At the time, this was a lot nicer than any available electronic compressor or limiter.

Broadcasters break their country's rules if they over modulate FM, so there is always a brutally hard limiter at the end of the chain which must be avoided for quality sound. Gain riding is a way to achieve this.

 

[Scytales]

Thanks @MaxwellEq. Your clear explanations bring light to this matter.

 

[Haskil]

Thanks @MaxwellEq. Your clear explanations bring light to this matter.

Most concerts were, and still are, broadcast on a delayed basis, not live, on the two French music stations (the public France Musique and the private Radio Classique). The signal coming out of the mixing console ultimately passes through the broadcast compressor, which applies broadcast processing. The signal recorded at the console output is therefore different from the one sent to the transmitters because it doesn't undergo broadcast processing. Broadcast musicians are very useful in the case of multi-microphone recording with live mixing, as well as in recording albums, but in 1969 at Radio France, recordings weren't made with a large number of microphones (unlike today), and the work was much simpler. If you hear the sound shifting, with fortissimos collapsing, it means the work wasn't done properly. Some great sound engineers and broadcast musicians of the 1960s did remarkably good work and knew how to avoid this... And today, too, for that matter. But not everyone is equal in the face of talent.