(re) Review of Sound Devices MixPre-3 II Multichannel Recorder Review - Advanced mode

[signalpath]

May I ask which traditional field recorder you would choose for critical recording?

I'm not RJA4000, but after over 600 classical music productions I'll share that we started in 1991 with reel-to-reel tape, soon after adding a DAT backup. As Sonar became more stable, we started lugging a desktop PC and external ADC and recorded straight to DAW, with DAT backup. For multi-track recordings, we started using a RADAR 24-tk machine with DAW backup, migrating to Sequoia (now owned by BorisFX). Today, I think most remote recordists (vs. "field" recordists?) are using some variant of outboard micamps, outboard ADCs with Networking (Dante, mostly), laptop DAW with a parallel DAW or h/w backup.

 

[artbur]

For multi-track recordings, we started using a RADAR 24-tk machine

Thanks for your reply. I just checked out the RADAR 24 https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/iz-technology-radar-24 I think for a max 4 mic setup this is like the germans say: "mit Kanonen auf Spatzen schiessen". What would be a more portable solution for a one man operation? As RJA4000 wrote, instead of a mixpre he would pick a more traditional 24bit field recorder. What would be a sensible option?

 

[signalpath]

Thanks for your reply. I just checked out the RADAR 24 https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/iz-technology-radar-24 I think for a max 4 mic setup this is like the germans say: "mit Kanonen auf Spatzen schiessen". What would be a more portable solution for a one man operation? As RJA4000 wrote, instead of a mixpre he would pick a more traditional 24bit field recorder. What would be a sensible option?

If you're truly doing "field recording" or even film sound then an all-in-one battery-operated solution makes the most sense. If you're doing remote runouts, such as symphony or chamber recordings, I would use a high quality multichannel micamp (e.g., HV-3D ) with integrated ADC and Dante networking. Run the Dante RJ45 cable to a robust laptop running the DAW of your choice, monitored by a small external DAC with headphones, or self-powered speakers if you have isolation. If you need a backup, run a parallel Dante cable from the ADC redundant Dante output into a different laptop, and just let it archive the tracks, maybe set to a slightly lower input level for clip protection.

 

[artbur]

If you're truly doing "field recording" or even film sound then an all-in-one battery-operated solution makes the most sense. If you're doing remote runouts, such as symphony or chamber recordings, I would use a high quality multichannel micamp (e.g., HV-3D ) with integrated ADC and Dante networking. Run the Dante RJ45 cable to a robust laptop running the DAW of your choice, monitored by a small external DAC with headphones, or self-powered speakers if you have isolation. If you need a backup, run a parallel Dante cable from the ADC redundant Dante output into a different laptop, and just let it archive the tracks, maybe set to a slightly lower input level for clip protection.

I'm doing very simple stuff from time to time. Interviews and discussions between healthcare stakeholders. Right now I'm using a SD 442 as the front end and record 4 mics into a babyface pro connected to a macbook pro running a daw. If I know for sure 2 mics will be enough I only use a Sony D100 handheld recorder connected to the 442 plus an olympus recorder as a backup.

It would be nice to have an all-in-one solution or at least not have to bring a macbook and babyface on top of the 442. That's why a mixpre-6 ii would be I nice solution, if the ADC performance wasn't so bad. Zoom is at least as bad and tascam is outright embarassing. Even the higher end Sound Devices recorders have questionable THD+N performance. Even the Zaxcom recorders don't reach 100dB THD+N.

Isn't there a battery powered 4+ channel recorder out there with comparable specs to the babyface pro? I mean the babyface can also be operated standalone with a powerbank, but it's not a recorder.

 

[EERecordist]

May I ask which traditional field recorder you would choose for critical recording?

I think from your description, the MixPre II will be fine if you don't need redundant recording media. For redundant recording the Zoom F8n Pro.

For interviews, the microphone is close to the voice, so noise floor is less important.

If you can use wired microphones, like lavaliers, you eliminate the many imperfections in radio systems. The DPAs are well respected, then Sanken, Countryman, Shure, and Sennheiser. There is a YouTuber, Curtis Judd, who reviews location gear across price ranges, including Rode, Deity, etc. microphones. Lavalier microphones have a field effect transistor in them. So lavaliers need 3-10V, manufacturer specific. The body pack radio transmitter supples that. You need an XLR phantom adaptor to wire them into your mixer.

 

[artbur]

I think from your description, the MixPre II will be fine if you don't need redundant recording media. For redundant recording the Zoom F8n Pro.

For interviews, the microphone is close to the voice, so noise floor is less important.

If you can use wired microphones, like lavaliers, you eliminate the many imperfections in radio systems. The DPAs are well respected, then Sanken, Countryman, Shure, and Sennheiser. There is a YouTuber, Curtis Judd, who reviews location gear across price ranges, including Rode, Deity, etc. microphones. Lavalier microphones have a field effect transistor in them. So lavaliers need 3-10V, manufacturer specific. The body pack radio transmitter supples that. You need an XLR phantom adaptor to wire them into your mixer.

There are solutions out there that would work, I guess. Since this is a hobby of mine, I'd like to have gear that is well engineered like RME products are. On gearspace or other forums people tend to defend the manufacturers of field recorders with arguments that aren’t fully thought through. For example claiming that the focus isn’t solely on audio performance but on factors like build quality or reliability. Yet ASR clearly shows that it is possible to deliver good audio performance for only a small additional cost or no additional manufacturing cost, if care is put into the engineering part. Maybe RME should make a rugged battery powered version of the Babyface or Fireface with one or two SD/CF card slots. Babyface SD, Fireface CF.

I'm aware of Curtis Judd's youtube channel, however all he ever measures when testing recorders is preamp noise using a XLR adapter with a 150 ohm resistor across pins 2 and 3. He never measures the ADC's performance. I'm sure he must have heard of REW and should be aware that he could perform additional tests, that would take him not much more additional time compared to his colorful lighting setups he does for the microphone speech tests.

 

[EERecordist]

There are solutions out there that would work, I guess. Since this is a hobby of mine, I'd like to have gear that is well engineered like RME products are. On gearspace or other forums people tend to defend the manufacturers of field recorders with arguments that aren’t fully thought through. For example claiming that the focus isn’t solely on audio performance but on factors like build quality or reliability. Yet ASR clearly shows that it is possible to deliver good audio performance for only a small additional cost or no additional manufacturing cost, if care is put into the engineering part. Maybe RME should make a rugged battery powered version of the Babyface or Fireface with one or two SD/CF card slots. Babyface SD, Fireface CF.

I'm aware of Curtis Judd's youtube channel, however all he ever measures when testing recorders is preamp noise using a XLR adapter with a 150 ohm resistor across pins 2 and 3. He never measures the ADC's performance. I'm sure he must have heard of REW and should be aware that he could perform additional tests, that would take him not much more additional time compared to his colorful lighting setups he does for the microphone speech tests.

@signalpath is one of ASR's experts in the world of critical quality discussed on FB group Classical Music Location Recording. The usual solution is a portable rack case with RME, Millennia, Grace, DAD, and the like mains powered preamps, an AtoD solution, a laptop, and backup recording. That recordist is hauling a suitcase full of microphones, microphone stands, cables, power cords, a UPS, and more. That is the world today. The closest thing to the 2 channel portable question is a Nagra VII.

Most interfaces send a bit stream in real time to the DAW. To write a file, you have to continually update in a way that if the system crashes the file can be read. That means the microprocessor managing the AtoD and user interface has to also manage writing the file, and backup file. It is a niche market.

 

[Ifrit]

Maybe RME should make a rugged battery powered version of the Babyface or Fireface with one or two SD/CF card slots.

I'd like to have gear that is well engineered like RME products are.

UCX II has DuRec, built-in recorder that does not need the host computer to be connected, you just plug in USB drive and record away. Surely, some power banks can provide 18V to be independent of external power supplies. 2 mic, 2 line/instrumental, 4 line inputs, – plenty for field recording. you can power their QuadMic II from the same power bank, thus having 6 mic inputs.

 

[Ifrit]

FB group Classical Music Location Recording.

Could you share the link, please? The one with the same name, or very similar, was kinda quiet lately, after a lot of spam bots and other nonsense. Would be nice to follow something that’s still alive. Thank you!

The usual solution is a portable rack case with RME, Millennia, Grace, DAD, and the like mains powered preamps, an AtoD solution, a laptop, and backup recording.

Case in point:

 

[artbur]

UCX II has DuRec, built-in recorder that does not need the host computer to be connected, you just plug in USB drive and record away. Surely, some power banks can provide 18V to be independent of external power supplies. 2 mic, 2 line/instrumental, 4 line inputs, – plenty for field recording. you can power their QuadMic II from the same power bank, thus having 6 mic inputs.

I considered this setup, but it felt like it wasn't a step forward towards a simpler setup in comparison to the SD 442, BF Pro and macbook.

Getting back to my initial question: which more traditional field recorder, instead of the SD MixPre-3 II, did @Rja4000 have in mind when he concluded his review?

 

[EERecordist]

Could you share the link, please? The one with the same name, or very similar, was kinda quiet lately, after a lot of spam bots and other nonsense. Would be nice to follow something that’s still alive. Thank you!

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[Rja4000]

UCX II has DuRec, built-in recorder that does not need the host computer to be connected, you just plug in USB drive and record away. Surely, some power banks can provide 18V to be independent of external power supplies. 2 mic, 2 line/instrumental, 4 line inputs, – plenty for field recording. you can power their QuadMic II from the same power bank, thus having 6 mic inputs.

That's an option, indeed.
You may power it with a Power Delivery powerbank and a 12V conversion cable.

Something like this:

https://a.co/d/gLRGkn0

 

[Palmer]

I'm not RJA4000, but after over 600 classical music productions I'll share that we started in 1991 with reel-to-reel tape, soon after adding a DAT backup. As Sonar became more stable, we started lugging a desktop PC and external ADC and recorded straight to DAW, with DAT backup. For multi-track recordings, we started using a RADAR 24-tk machine with DAW backup, migrating to Sequoia (now owned by BorisFX). Today, I think most remote recordists (vs. "field" recordists?) are using some variant of outboard micamps, outboard ADCs with Networking (Dante, mostly), laptop DAW with a parallel DAW or h/w backup.

Worked on RADAR a couple of times, once in conjunction with an Otari console, don't remember if it was a Concept or a Status . Back then, reliable and good. Memories...

Cheers

 

[Rja4000]

which more traditional field recorder, instead of the SD MixPre-3 II, did @Rja4000 have in mind when he concluded his review?

For my recording use, something like this:

Of course, in that case, you need mains power.

(If you really want it battery-powered, you may still use an UCX II instead of the UFX for up to 10 microphones with Durec, since the 12Mic may also be 12V battery powered and has ADAT outputs.)

 

[Ifrit]

I still use my UFX (original) time to time. Exactly because I only need to schlep less, just one laptop, and I have the backup recording at the same time. For smaller setups it’s good.
RADAR was a good machine, but big to take around.

 

[Rja4000]

which more traditional field recorder, instead of the SD MixPre-3 II, did @Rja4000 have in mind when he concluded his review?

And if I really had to use a all-in-one battery-powered recorder similar to the MixPre, I'd try to get a first gen version -since the mic preamp is solid- without the dual ADC gimmick.

 

[artbur]

And if I really had to use a all-in-one battery-powered recorder similar to the MixPre, I'd try to get a first gen version -since the mic preamp is solid- without the dual ADC gimmick.

Interesting, thanks for your reply. If I come across a good deal on a used one in decent condition, I'll get it and run some tests.

The dual ADC 32bit float marketing recorders have very poor ADC performance as you and Amir have already demonstrated in your much appreciated tests. I tested a Tascam Portacapture X8 last week and it had a higher noise floor than the Sony PCM-D100 in SN100 mode (dual adc) and normal mode at every input level. Even an Olympus LS-11 showed better THD+N across most relevant input levels. I've since returned the tascam.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

a location recordist friend (she records live music, but mostly does location audio for commercials) uses sonosax stuff exclusively

 

[Rja4000]

the babyface can also be operated standalone with a powerbank, but it's not a recorder.

Why not just connect a smartphone to it ?

 

[artbur]

Why not just connect a smartphone to it ?

Never thought about it since Totalmix is only available for iPads. Gonna try it out over the weekend. I think the Neutron Recorder App supports multiple tracks on an android phone. But who knows how stable that one works.