RCA to XLR or RCA to RCA

[mongobot]

So it was finally time to retire my Onkyo PR-SC5507 AVP and I bit the bullet on a Denon X4800H as it's replacement.

My external amp is a Nord Acoustics Nord One NC502 and has been connected via XLR to the Onkyo.

The Nord has the option to connect via XLR or RCA whereas the Denon is limited to RCA.

So my question is, it is worth to go with RCA to XLR cables or should I just simplify things and connect with standard RCA cables?

 

[staticV3]

So my question is, it is worth to go with RCA to XLR cables

With the correct cables, yes as that will net you resistance against common-mode noise

 

[Holmz]

So it was finally time to retire my Onkyo PR-SC5507 AVP and I bit the bullet on a Denon X4800H as it's replacement.

My external amp is a Nord Acoustics Nord One NC502 and has been connected via XLR to the Onkyo.

The Nord has the option to connect via XLR or RCA whereas the Denon is limited to RCA.

So my question is, it is worth to go with RCA to XLR cables or should I just simplify things and connect with standard RCA cables?

Do you mean go FROM RCA to XLR?
If so then it is not a bad idea.

It may not help but it rarely hurts.

If you mean WITH RCA to XLR, as in some adaptor with RCA on one end XLR on the other, then NO !

 

[Hear Here]

So it was finally time to retire my Onkyo PR-SC5507 AVP and I bit the bullet on a Denon X4800H as it's replacement.

My external amp is a Nord Acoustics Nord One NC502 and has been connected via XLR to the Onkyo.

The Nord has the option to connect via XLR or RCA whereas the Denon is limited to RCA.

So my question is, it is worth to go with RCA to XLR cables or should I just simplify things and connect with standard RCA cables?

XLR is generally used to carry a balanced signal, whereas RCA is used to carry a single ended signal.

Balanced is generally better than SE, so use balanced XLR cables if both ends offer XLR sockets - you will retain the balanced signal. However if either end offers only RCA sockets, there is NO ADVANTAGE WHARSOEVER in using XLR cables - the signal will be single ended. Best to use RCA cables. However, if you already have XLR cables, it may be less costly to get XLR to RCA adaptors than to buy new RCA cables, but you'll gain nothing over RCA cables.

 

[staticV3]

However if either end offers only RCA sockets, there is NO ADVANTAGE WHARSOEVER in using XLR cables

Untrue. A differential input can do its job rejecting common-mode noise regardless of whether the incoming signal is single-ended or differential.

For more details on this, look up Bruno Putzeys The G Word.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Balanced is generally better than SE [...]. However if either end offers only RCA sockets, there is NO ADVANTAGE WHARSOEVER in using XLR cables - the signal will be single ended. Best to use RCA cables.

Untrue. A differential input can do its job rejecting common-mode noise regardless of whether the incoming signal is single-ended or differential.

Is it fair to split the difference between these two responses?

My understanding is that technically, @staticV3 is correct. A properly wired RCA to XLR (i.e., 2-wire STP) cable will allow a balanced input device (i.e., Nord One) to apply common-mode noise rejection. While the CMRR percent will not be as high as a proper impedance-matched XLR(TRS) to XLR(TRS) cable, it will still be a significant benefit if there is noise being introduced into the line. By contrast, an RCA->XLR cable using 1-wire coax cable, an RCA->RCA cable, and an XLR->RCA cable will provide no noise rejection.

But pragmatically, the advice from @Hear Here may not be wrong. In most household environments, there is negligible noise introduced over a relatively short interconnect between the AVR preamp and the amplifier. If there is no noise being introduced, there no pragmatic benefit to purchasing a proper RCA to XLR cable; and the standard unbalanced RCA cable would be just as good.

In which case, it seems the following sieve might be reasonable:

• Is RCA to XLR (properly wired) beneficial in theory? Yes, but it doesn't really matter if you don't have any noise being introduced
• Is the interconnect a short (<1 meter) cable or a longer run out to power speakers / subwoofers? If longer run, more likely to have noise so well worth considering
• Is there detectable noise on my short interconnect when using RCA to RCA? If yes, then replace with a proper RCA to XLR to help reduce the common-mode noise
• Do I mind spending a few dollars to have a proper RCA to XLR anyway for peace of mind and pride of show? If yes, then get a proper RCA to XLR cable.

Personally, I have no need for RCA to XLR in my setup because I do not have any noise. However, I have wired all such interconnects using a reasonably proper RCA to XLR cable (2-wire STP, but no resistor) simply for "pride of show". I feel joy and psychological satisfaction, even though I also know it is just "bling in a pretty Techflex sleeve".

 

[mongobot]

Thanks very much for the replies.
Based on feedback in this and related threads, I'll give the RCA > XLR cables a go.

 

[pablolie]

So it was finally time to retire my Onkyo PR-SC5507 AVP and I bit the bullet on a Denon X4800H as it's replacement.

My external amp is a Nord Acoustics Nord One NC502 and has been connected via XLR to the Onkyo.

The Nord has the option to connect via XLR or RCA whereas the Denon is limited to RCA.

So my question is, it is worth to go with RCA to XLR cables or should I just simplify things and connect with standard RCA cables?

XLR cables only show a small advantage over longer runs.
It gets back to the audiophile quandary of going for the supposed (yet indiscernible) "best possible" versus the "actually totally up to perform for the use case".
Personally I have never been in a situation where I thought XLR was superior in any audible way. But it LOOKS the part of more audiophile cred.

 

[DVDdoug]

I'd go with RCA for the simplicity (and lower cost as a bonus).

Then if you get hum (unlikely) try the adapter cables to XLR.

 

[Chrispy]

I'd just use rca if that's what I have on hand. I have built rca to xlr cables, tho. Not a big deal either way IME.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

XLR cables only show a small advantage over longer runs.
It gets back to the audiophile quandary of going for the supposed (yet indiscernible) "best possible" versus the "actually totally up to perform for the use case".
Personally I have never been in a situation where I thought XLR was superior in any audible way. But it LOOKS the part of more audiophile cred.

Could you qualify what you mean by "only show a small advantage over longer runs"?

IMHO, this is not about the audio "sounding better" because it is over a balanced XLR/TRS instead of an unbalanced RCA interconnect ... regardless of a short run vs. "household length" long run. (That can change when running 30+ meters at a professional venue.)

But rather, it is [only] about avoiding sound degradation by removing any external noise that was introduced into the cable between the output device and the balanced input device (e.g., amp, active speaker, subwoofer, etc.).

Put differently — and assuming no gain staging issues* — this situation is about about whether (or not) noise is being introduced into the cable itself:

• A balanced interconnect cable "over a longer run" in a house — e.g., to speakers, subwoofers, components on the other side of the room — will show no difference in the absence of noise being introduced into the line.
• And in nearly all cases, there will no discernable noise introduced in these long runs (thus, a balanced cable will not sound any better).
• But in some cases, there can be significant, audibly discernable noise introduced into the cable from other elements.
• In those cases, the use of common-mode noise rejection can provide a meaningful advantage (i.e., measured CMRR) compared with an RCA line.

* As a side note: the conversation above does not consider any issues with gain staging. The assumption is that routing the AVR's RCA output to the Nord One's XLR input still provides the amplification gain to power the attached speakers. That is most likely the case. If it is not, then the OP should instead go with RCA to RCA as the preferred option to better match the AVR's output voltage with the amplifier's higher gain amplification for the unbalanced input.

 

[pablolie]

..

But rather, it is [only] about avoiding sound degradation by removing any external noise that was introduced into the cable between the output device and the balanced input device (e.g., amp, active speaker, subwoofer, etc.).

Put differently — and assuming no gain staging issues* — this situation is about about whether (or not) noise is being introduced in...

You are paraphrasing what I said. The possible advantage XLR is that it is more immune to noise, which typically just makes a difference with really long cable runs unless you live right next to a power station and high voltage lines or keep an MRI scan machine on right next to your audio equipment.
My advice to the OP is to use whatever cables he already has. RCA vs XLR is extremely unlikely to make any discernible difference in SQ in a typical household. And I don't think I am voicing a weird and controversial theory.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

You are paraphrasing what I said. The possible advantage XLR is that it is more immune to noise, which typically just makes a difference with really long cable runs unless you live right next to a power station and high voltage lines.

Cool! You just said it with a lot fewer words.

But at first, wasn't sure if you referring to cases where input the XLR actually could sound better than RCA in the absence of introduced noise. There are few potential edge cases in a home situation (such as gain staging between mixed voltage devices), so I wasn't sure if you were tipping your hat in that direction. Though if there was a gain staging issue in this situation, the RCA to RCA would be the one that might actually sound better.

 

[Holmz]

…
Put differently — and assuming no gain staging issues* — this situation is about about whether (or not) noise is being introduced into the cable itself:

• A balanced interconnect cable "over a longer run" in a house — e.g., to speakers, subwoofers, components on the other side of the room — will show no difference in the absence of noise being introduced into the line.

…

The crux of it is that the noise being introduced into the line is between zero and something else.
It is the “something else” where the XLRs help… but we do not know if it is fixing a problem that doesn’t even exist.

If one has RCA then great.
If they are buying new gear, then XLRs never hurt.

Cool! You just said it with a lot fewer words.

But at first, wasn't sure if you referring to cases where input the XLR actually could sound better than RCA in the absence of introduced noise. There are few potential edge cases in a home situation (such as gain staging between mixed voltage devices), so I wasn't sure if you were tipping your hat in that direction. Though if there was a gain staging issue in this situation, the RCA to RCA would be the one that might actually sound better.

It is not so much the high voltage lines, as magnetic fields.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

The crux of it is that the noise being introduced into the line is between zero and something else.
It is the “something else” where the XLRs help… but we do not know if it is fixing a problem that doesn’t even exist.

100% agree! Which is why my second bullet: And in nearly all cases, there will no discernable noise introduced in these long runs (thus, a balanced cable will not sound any better).

If one has RCA then great.
If they are buying new gear, then XLRs never hurt.

Or, as it was in my case, simply out of pure (and freely admitted) audiofool ego...

It is not so much the high voltage lines, as magnetic fields.

Thanks for that clarification!!! So not so much a concern of runs that might run aside an extension cord. But perhaps from the motor on your partner's 1930's-era Singer sewing machine?

And pragmatically, what are scenarios in a home situation that might create magnetic fields that would induce noise into an interconnect cable. (With the caveat that this entire discussion is about balanced vs. unbalanced analog audio interconnects, not speaker cables.)

 

[pablolie]

It is not so much the high voltage lines, as magnetic fields.

.There is 100% correlation between high voltage and magnetic fields, though.

 

[Holmz]

.There is 100% correlation between high voltage and magnetic fields, though.

Where did you get that from?

 

[scorlee]

In fact, in addition to this kind of line, there is a separate adapter head, and the direct conversion is the same effect

 

[pablolie]

Where did you get that from?

Orsted, Faraday, Ampere, Maxwell... high voltage lines carry a lot of current. It's not there for nothing.

 

[bigguyca]

.There is 100% correlation between high voltage and magnetic fields, though.

Nonsense:

Note that V is not included in the equation.

Equation for Magnetic Field Intensity around a Long, Straight AC Line

The magnitude of the magnetic field (B) produced by a long, straight wire carrying a current (I) at a distance (r) from the wire can be calculated using the following formula:
B = (μ₀ * I) / (2 * π * r)
Where:

• B: Magnetic field strength (measured in Teslas (T))
• μ₀: Permeability of free space (a constant with the value of 4π × 10⁻⁷ T⋅m/A)
• I: Current flowing through the wire (measured in Amperes (A))
• r: Shortest distance from the wire to the point where the magnetic field is being measured (measured in meters (m))