Razer 'Opus' Impressions / Opinions on Noise Cancellation?

[617]

I wanted some noise cancelling headphones for working at home; the nice weather has brought with it a lot of people making noise in my neighborhood. I saw that Rtings tests noise cancellation, and sorted all 500 of their reviews for noise attenuation and found the Razer Opus were close to the top. I don't agree 1000% with their rating methodology but for NC it's pretty solid, and they even provide the sound files they used to measure.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/isolation/noise-isolation-cancellation-passive-active

The best measured attenuation come from the Sony WH-1000XM3, which provides 29.9db. Being an audiophile, I can't really stomach spending $300 dollars on a bluetooth headset..seems gross...so I got the Razers for around $120. They provide 27db attenuation. ASR recently measured the Bose QC 35, which gives 27db as well.

One thing I notice about the noise cancellation is that turning it off and on doesn't make a huge difference since these headphones are so well sealed to begin with. I will say that my keyboard is inaudible when I use these headphones, but all told, it is incredibly effective.

Now, this headphone commits a number of audiophile sins. For one, it's made by a gaming hardware company. For another, it's bluetooth (although with aptx/aac). Having said that, it's clear that the DSP in these things is doing quite a bit, and the default "THX" equalization mode is pretty innofensive. I use them with the android wavelet app with a little bass boost, but even without they sound pretty decent for a closed headphone. After having used them for a bit, I do find the high noise rejection to improve immersion, it's just a shame they don't sound as airy as my Sennheisers. I highly recommend the Wavelet app, by the way.

I'm not necessarily endorsing the Razer's, I think they're great for the money, but I do wonder if the DSP equalization and ANC can have better sound than a traditional passive headphone?

 

[617]

Here are some listening impressions:

Thin Lizzy Honesty is No Excuse while angrily typing an email on a mechanical keyboard
The second song off Thin Lizzy's excellent debut album captures the regrets of a womanizing young man trying to move on with his life. What could have easily been a simple ballad transforms into a swirling guitar extravaganza like only 70s rock albums can do. The Opus's balanced tonality gave a wonderfully chewy presentation, with almost no angry keyboard noises cutting into the mix.

Bengt Forsberg / Anne Sofie Otter Haugtussa while someone operated a Vitamix 20 feet away
The gentle and noble piano tone on this rendition of Grieg's song cycle contrast beautifully with Otter's strong yet vulnerable intepretation of Arne Garborg's poems. The scene of an innocent mountain girl's sadness at being jilted by a boy she met at the blueberry harvest festival was completely free of noise from the Vitamix, a notoriously loud blender.

Die Fantastichen Vier Krieger while taking a piss
Thunderous drums no problem for the Opus, driving the song forward with authority. Raspy vocals perfectly balanced, cutting through the mix. Forgot I was taking a piss.

 

[devopsprodude]

The best measured attenuation come from the Sony WH-1000XM3, which provides 29.9db. Being an audiophile, I can't really stomach spending $300 dollars on a bluetooth headset..seems gross...so I got the Razers for around $120. They provide 27db attenuation. ASR recently measured the Bose QC 35, which gives 27db as well.

You can get the XM3s for $189ish on Amazon now. The current XM4 cans are $350 though. Having said that, sound quality on the Sony headphones is very much meh. They headphones are comfortable, the noise cancelling is excellent, but it's just not very exciting listening to music on them. Hopefully, the Opus cans are better in that department.

 

[Tks]

I'm confused. Why would spending $300 on a Bluetooth ANC headphone be gross?

As to the question can ANC+DSP sound better than passive, of course it can. In fact unequalized passive headphones themselves could all use some DSP PEQ for example. The only caveat is having properly matched channels, and low enough THD to where equalization doesnt turn into the piece of shit sound produced by easily clipped Focal drivers for example.

Circling back to my first statement.. I personally find it insane someone would buy a passive headphone (supposedly thr best dynamic drivers if you believe Focal and extrapolate from pricing) for the money that the Focal headphones cost. Getting DSP+ANC+Bluetooth are actually demonstrably more value added properties to a headphone, that objectively add more to the inherent development cost. If anything, the expectstion to be paying more over passive headphones is what would make more sense. Granted the Bluetooth encodings of anything other than using LDAC seems to take a dump all over the sound, but that is an issue of market driven realities, and not some technical flaw that cannot be rectified in principal.

While I can sympathize with how large companies putting out questionable aesthetics when it comes to headphone design (gamer headphone as if we are going to pilot a starship), and how that can offend audiophile sensibilities. I would have to say gamer PCs should also be invoking the same feelings. But anyone remotely aware of PCs would know they are virtually the best performing sort of consumer PC hardware available. You cant go and get a luxury PC build that is high performing, that isnt going to have a gamer like branding to most of its parts. Unless you think server builds are classified as consumer facing hardware.

Your listening impressions being as positive as they are says a lot more about audiophile marketed heasphones and their price, more than it does say something about a somewhat silly seeming headphone for gamers supposedly sold at far lower cost.

Come to think of it, the Opus itself doesnt even look gamer to me. So now any critique would be of marketing. Even if the headphone looked like an HD600. The complaint that the headphone is a "gamer headphone" is more silly. Since one of main problems with them, were silly features, and looks. This looks and performs great if you ask me.

 

[617]

I'm confused. Why would spending $300 on a Bluetooth ANC headphone be gross?

As to the question can ANC+DSP sound better than passive, of course it can. In fact unequalized passive headphones themselves could all use some DSP PEQ for example. The only caveat is having properly matched channels, and low enough THD to where equalization doesnt turn into the piece of shit sound produced by easily clipped Focal drivers for example.

Circling back to my first statement.. I personally find it insane someone would buy a passive headphone (supposedly thr best dynamic drivers if you believe Focal and extrapolate from pricing) for the money that the Focal headphones cost. Getting DSP+ANC+Bluetooth are actually demonstrably more value added properties to a headphone, that objectively add more to the inherent development cost. If anything, the expectstion to be paying more over passive headphones is what would make more sense. Granted the Bluetooth encodings of anything other than using LDAC seems to take a dump all over the sound, but that is an issue of market driven realities, and not some technical flaw that cannot be rectified in principal.

While I can sympathize with how large companies putting out questionable aesthetics when it comes to headphone design (gamer headphone as if we are going to pilot a starship), and how that can offend audiophile sensibilities. I would have to say gamer PCs should also be invoking the same feelings. But anyone remotely aware of PCs would know they are virtually the best performing sort of consumer PC hardware available. You cant go and get a luxury PC build that is high performing, that isnt going to have a gamer like branding to most of its parts. Unless you think server builds are classified as consumer facing hardware.

Your listening impressions being as positive as they are says a lot more about audiophile marketed heasphones and their price, more than it does say something about a somewhat silly seeming headphone for gamers supposedly sold at far lower cost.

I completely agree with you, and I said that a 300 dollar BT headset is 'gross' because of audiophile biases which I am forced to revise. Spending $2000 on a headphone with no filters, passive or otherwise, is like spending a proportional amount on a single driver speaker with no filter; it's simply not feasible to control tonality by sheer luck and driver engineering.

The Razer opus are pretty nice looking, certainly nondescript, and apart from the 'closed' sound, I am totally sold on DSP headphones. The bluetooth codec has improved, and they do sound better than older BT audio products I've heard.

I'd be very interested in wireless headphones in the future, the convenience features are significant, and the sound can clearly be excellent. If there is a model with a more atmospheric sound I'd be very interested.

 

[Cahudson42]

I am not necessarily endorsing the Razer's, I think they're great for the money, but I do wonder if the DSP equalization and ANC can have better sound than a traditional passive headphone?

If you are curious enough and have $299 to spare, audition the N90q when they come back on sale for that.
https://www.harmanaudio.com/akg/N90+Q.html

Run it via USB OTG if possible, avoiding the extra DAC/ADC conversions.. That can he done with a $30 LG Rebel 4 android 8 tracfone via wifi and favorite music streaming app. (Mine is Amazon Music).

Analog ANC. No hiss..

 

[Weeb Labs]

I have noticed that some owners are reporting audible noise floor (hiss) with the ANC engaged. What has your experience been in this regard?

 

[Tks]

I completely agree with you, and I said that a 300 dollar BT headset is 'gross' because of audiophile biases which I am forced to revise. Spending $2000 on a headphone with no filters, passive or otherwise, is like spending a proportional amount on a single driver speaker with no filter; it's simply not feasible to control tonality by sheer luck and driver engineering.

The Razer opus are pretty nice looking, certainly nondescript, and apart from the 'closed' sound, I am totally sold on DSP headphones. The bluetooth codec has improved, and they do sound better than older BT audio products I've heard.

I'd be very interested in wireless headphones in the future, the convenience features are significant, and the sound can clearly be excellent. If there is a model with a more atmospheric sound I'd be very interested.

The worst part about passive headphones, ESPECIALLY those sold by exclusively an audio or audiophile oriented company is: you would expect for them to get the engineering right, and put the effort required into making the headphone function as it should with no DSP or active portions.

Think about it for just a second. The reason someone would buy something like a F.P Journe mechanical watch, is precisely because the man is achieving something that comes at a cost so great, that it's questionable if he would be able to afford an example of every watch he has made. His effort goes so hard into making an engineering and artistic marvel, with the restriction of no electrical parts which would trivialize the engineering aspect to a large extent.

This is what I would expect from passive headphones. For them to at least get a driver that stands on it's own, about as well as en active driver managed by DSP and things of that nature. Instead we get none of the usability and utility from the benefits of going active, and we're still left with dooky drivers some of the time.

But.. the WORST part of all. Isn't even driver performance. Like when I try a headphone, and I realize the drivers aren't matched for even SPL output, I feel like taking the thing, and breaking it at the disbelief of how something like channel matching can be still an issue in the year 2021. The only thing stopping me, is knowing that both my phone, and my DAC have very quick access to channel balance control.

 

[617]

I have noticed that some owners are reporting audible noise floor (hiss) with the ANC engaged. What has your experience been in this regard?

There is some noise with the ANC engaged but 1. it isn't very distracting as it is quiet and very LF dominant (not hissy) and 2. totally inaudible with anything playing. It's a reasonable trade off in my opinion. The ANC is interesting, I thought it would be like you put it on and the world goes away, but it's more like you put it on and realize you haven't heard anything in 40 minutes. It works quiet well.

The passive noise control is quite good with these headphones as well, as I would expect from any of the top-ten measured quietest headphones. Soft but smallish pads, great seal. In other words, you can turn the ANC off and still have pretty good noise rejection but I prefer ANC on.

Given that there's only one headphone with better noise levels I suspect there is a tradeoff between this noise and noise attenuation. I look forward to trying other headphones.

EDIT: I just tested it again, it's really weird. When you pause music the noise sort of builds up, but when you play music it goes back down again. I don't know what it's doing but it's not normal electronics noise, it's some kind of psychoacoustic voodo.

 

[fieldcar]

I have noticed that some owners are reporting audible noise floor (hiss) with the ANC engaged. What has your experience been in this regard?

I got them for $80 on clearance and ended up just taking them back to the store due to the hiss. If I recall it didn't matter if ANC was on or off, the hiss was still there. It was probably about 25dB of noise floor(quiet fan), and it was super distracting with quieter tracks (soundtracks, live acoustic, etc). The tuning was pretty good, but I highly prefer my Marshall major III's or galaxy buds+ if I want to go wireless. I could have gotten a fluke though, so you never know.

 

[devopsprodude]

I have noticed that some owners are reporting audible noise floor (hiss) with the ANC engaged. What has your experience been in this regard?

This is an artifact of noise cancellation on most ANC cans.

 

[617]

This is an artifact of noise cancellation on most ANC cans.

I would love to see an in depth article about how ANC really works, I understand how it does in essence but there seems to be a lot going into the tuning of these products.

 

[devopsprodude]

I would love to see an in depth article about how ANC really works, I understand how it does in essence but there seems to be a lot going into the tuning of these products.

Yeah, I don't know exactly how it works, aside from having multiple microphones that are used to pick up sounds in the environment around the user, and some sort of processing to take that noise and generate noise that cancels the ambient noise. Obviously, there's a lot in terms of software and processing that goes into that and it's a pretty complex system.

Worth noting that the $550 Apple headphones do not have that hiss, but I found them to be uncomfortable, although they do sound pretty good for closed back cans. Hard to justify the cost, IMO, but didn't stop my brother from buying them.

 

[617]

Yeah, I don't know exactly how it works, aside from having multiple microphones that are used to pick up sounds in the environment around the user, and some sort of processing to take that noise and generate noise that cancels the ambient noise. Obviously, there's a lot in terms of software and processing that goes into that and it's a pretty complex system.

Worth noting that the $550 Apple headphones do not have that hiss, but I found them to be uncomfortable, although they do sound pretty good for closed back cans. Hard to justify the cost, IMO, but didn't stop my brother from buying them.

I understand these closed BT headphones are for commuters and office workers but I agree that closed headphones aren't terribly comfortable. I'd love to see an open back headphone with bluetooth and dsp equalization.

 

[Tks]

Yeah, I don't know exactly how it works, aside from having multiple microphones that are used to pick up sounds in the environment around the user, and some sort of processing to take that noise and generate noise that cancels the ambient noise. Obviously, there's a lot in terms of software and processing that goes into that and it's a pretty complex system.

Worth noting that the $550 Apple headphones do not have that hiss, but I found them to be uncomfortable, although they do sound pretty good for closed back cans. Hard to justify the cost, IMO, but didn't stop my brother from buying them.

If they nailed the comfort, and done away with lunacy ridden design choices (like aluminum housing that is extremely conducive to condensation), and the stupid Always-On ordeal, and the more idiotic bra-like case to be able to actually turn the headphones off. They would be fine in my book from a value prop.

Idk when it happened but when I look on Sennheiser's website and see HD650 costing now as much as the HD660S ($500 wtf?), the Apple proposition seems less problematic.

 

[jhaider]

I'd be very interested in wireless headphones in the future, the convenience features are significant, and the sound can clearly be excellent. If there is a model with a more atmospheric sound I'd be very interested

AKG N700NC M2, currently under $100 lots of places. The baffles are steeply angled and they sound more spacious than any other closed headphone I’ve tried while having a nicely neutral sound. PEQ app as well that saves to the headphones, so it’ll hold regardless of source. Yes the fit is unusual - the back of your ear fits between the pad and the angled baffle. I find them comfortable though.

 

[MayaTlab]

Worth noting that the $550 Apple headphones do not have that hiss

Nah they do, just like any pair of ANC headphones. I have them.
it’s just that some current ANC headphones have a quieter noise floor than previous generations (IMO quiet enough that I don't mind having in on at all times). XM4, AirPods Max, Bose 700, all three are quite a bit quieter than, let’s say, the Y600NC or N700NCM2, or the QC35 (I, I’ve never had the II so don’t know).
Albeit in the case of the Bose 700 the noise floor actually varies depending on playback content (if you play a song with the software volume way down you’ll hear the noise floor rising rhythmically with the music whenever content below 1khz or so is played).
What the APM doesn’t have though, is an audible noise floor when ANC is turned off, and I still find that quite rare even though modern active headphones are a lot better than older ones in that regard.

 

[devopsprodude]

Nah they do, just like any pair of ANC headphones. I have them.
it’s just that some current ANC headphones have a quieter noise floor than previous generations (IMO quiet enough that I don't mind having in on at all times). XM4, AirPods Max, Bose 700, all three are quite a bit quieter than, let’s say, the Y600NC or N700NCM2, or the QC35 (I, I’ve never had the II so don’t know).
Albeit in the case of the Bose 700 the noise floor actually varies depending on playback content (if you play a song with the software volume way down you’ll hear the noise floor rising rhythmically with the music whenever content below 1khz or so is played).
What the APM doesn’t have though, is an audible noise floor when ANC is turned off, and I still find that quite rare even though modern active headphones are a lot better than older ones in that regard.

Yeah, guess I didn't notice it because it wasn't in my face like it is with the Sony XM3 cans.