• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

RAAL-requisite SR1a Ribbon Headphone Review

xarkkon

Active Member
Joined
May 26, 2019
Messages
228
Likes
338
Ooh, looking forward to all the headphone reviews! And what a pair to start this off with. Yeah it's not the best result out there, but it's hard to find anything more unique / interesting than these!
 

nj75f

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
52
Likes
29
How do these headphones frequency response graph is measured?
I thought most measurements up to this point are lost a lot of their validity, until someone tests in those anechoic chambers and has such very very expensive new device from Brüel & Kjær https://www.head-fi.org/threads/headphone-measurements-the-new-standard-part-1.937301/#post-15735920

This "somewhat spacious with high notes grabbing your attention. Mind you, there was something pleasing about this. But proper reproduction it was not." is in my opinion the most notable aspect in this review, as the depiction of sound from these cans is not like with the usual headphones.
Music sounds kinda artificial, "stretched into the room". It sound good for movies, but after a short while not so much.
Well, it isn't a headphone, a earphone. :)

Nice seeing some headphone reviews, thanks!
I personally will not use those reviews as much as the other hardware tests for a buying decision, since the topic is way to subjective.
What headphone I deem likeable, another does not like. But is a good starting point.
 

Matias

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
5,029
Likes
10,797
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
The V2 RME is still in house? I thought you didn't like RME's menu's so much, I'd have never imagined you would've gotten one yourself.
By the end of the review he said he was keeping it ("will make it my everyday DAC+amp at my workstation").

What surprised me was the Purifi EVAL-1 amp still there. I thought Purifi would ask the demo unit back?

And also I didn't know "the hammer" was chosen as the headphone rig, nice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tks

bennybbbx

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
691
Likes
124
Location
germany
this is simular to AKG K1000. I look all the years for a heaphone as AKG K 1000 but with no clipping bass. there is none see. I hope there come more as this for better price.
How loud do you think is the SR1A ?. when it have 90 db, with 100 watt then it have 87 db with 50 Watt. for me are 80 db good enough and 7 db for bass boost. do you think the headphone can reach that without clipping ?

the AKG K1000 i buy in the middle of 90 as far i remember. it give a much better room feeling and not so much in the head fealing as other headphones. and it give better transients as speakers in nearfield. On my K1000 was problem with lots bass distortions. it do mettalic distort on some songs and low bass very much when overall loudness is more than (i guess 74 db). but i need 80 db to hear good. I have not the headphone amp for this. i have osciloscope and i see no clipping in the headphone out of my equeipment. with headphone out it reach around 80 db, loud enough and it is wear good. headphones that press on my ears i can not wear more than 20 minutes. this i can wear hours. only tAhe bass clipping problem.
 

A.West

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 18, 2020
Messages
81
Likes
132
To me the big question is whether they are superior or comparable to Stax headphones.
I have HD800 headphones, LCD-2 Fazors, and the only category I haven't tried yet is the really exotic stuff like this or the Stax.
My suspicion is that there are too many tradeoffs, and that the "openness" of the sound people get from those are unusual frequency balance plus actual in-room reflections from the speakers themselves.
 

617

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
2,404
Likes
5,296
Location
Somerville, MA
I actually have a special chaise I use when I listen to these. It is impossible to get up and take them off.

 

NDRQ

Active Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2018
Messages
178
Likes
247
To me the big question is whether they are superior or comparable to Stax headphones.
I have HD800 headphones, LCD-2 Fazors, and the only category I haven't tried yet is the really exotic stuff like this or the Stax.
My suspicion is that there are too many tradeoffs, and that the "openness" of the sound people get from those are unusual frequency balance plus actual in-room reflections from the speakers themselves.

The new HEDDphone is also an interesting exotic stuff.
 

JohnYang1997

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Audio Company
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
7,175
Likes
18,292
Location
China
How do these headphones frequency response graph is measured?
I thought most measurements up to this point are lost a lot of their validity, until someone tests in those anechoic chambers and has such very very expensive new device from Brüel & Kjær https://www.head-fi.org/threads/headphone-measurements-the-new-standard-part-1.937301/#post-15735920

This "somewhat spacious with high notes grabbing your attention. Mind you, there was something pleasing about this. But proper reproduction it was not." is in my opinion the most notable aspect in this review, as the depiction of sound from these cans is not like with the usual headphones.
Music sounds kinda artificial, "stretched into the room". It sound good for movies, but after a short while not so much.
Well, it isn't a headphone, a earphone. :)

Nice seeing some headphone reviews, thanks!
I personally will not use those reviews as much as the other hardware tests for a buying decision, since the topic is way to subjective.
What headphone I deem likeable, another does not like. But is a good starting point.
Quote from the review:
For my testing, I was fortunately enough to have a GRAS 45CA headphone measurement fixture with high resolution pinna on kind loan from the company. It is affectionally called "the hammer:"

Also Amir has tested the B&K 5128c which is suboptimal for the expectations.
See here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ng-and-bk-5128-hats-measurement-system.15147/

In conclusion, the current test equipment is more suitable than the expensive 5128c.

Crinacle posted some supplementary measurements here. So.
For crinacle's new measurement rig:
https://crinacle.com/2020/09/03/in-ear-fidelity-acquires-gras-setup-for-headphone-measurements/

His rig and Amir's are compatible and are the SOTA measurement equipment for headphones.
 

Robin L

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
5,211
Likes
7,589
Location
1 mile east of Sleater Kinney Rd
To me the big question is whether they are superior or comparable to Stax headphones.
I have HD800 headphones, LCD-2 Fazors, and the only category I haven't tried yet is the really exotic stuff like this or the Stax.
My suspicion is that there are too many tradeoffs, and that the "openness" of the sound people get from those are unusual frequency balance plus actual in-room reflections from the speakers themselves.
An EQed pair of Drop 6XXs is comparable to the Stax earspeakers. I lived with a set of the Signatures with a Stax tube energizer/amp for 20 years. The Sennheisers are more low-slung, more forceful on the bottom. The Stax are "airier", FWIW, but the issues are those of emphasis, not of absence. In any case, Drop 6XXs, eq-ed, are similar to Stax Earspeakers.
 
Last edited:

Frank Dernie

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
6,445
Likes
15,780
Location
Oxfordshire
20hz to 1k takes more than half the graph i think it could be tweaked a bit?
The same pitch an octave higher is a doubling in frequency so to our ears 20Hz to 40Hz is the same pitch shift as 2000Hz to 4000Hz, that is why audio measurements are shown on a log scale.
 

GXAlan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
3,868
Likes
5,954
The SR1a definitely imparts a sense of "panel speakers" to everything you play. And I mean everything. You get more ambiance with every track -- whether it is part of the recording or not. This is was a very pleasant effect with my audiophile demo tracks. You could take this setup to an audio show and be right at home. Part of this is due to the distance of the drivers from your ears.

That's probably one of the reasons why the Magnepan LRS in stereo mode is popular yet it measures so poorly (and why a higher-end 3-way Magnepan with a true ribbon does really well since it addresses many of the weaknesses of the LRS, but has the ambiance effect).

I think for a headphone, ambiance as a coloration would be very ideal. Too bad the bass response is so poor. Did the Harman research make any comments about consumer preferences on ambiance?
 

JohnYang1997

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Audio Company
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
7,175
Likes
18,292
Location
China
The same pitch an octave higher is a doubling in frequency so to our ears 20Hz to 40Hz is the same pitch shift as 2000Hz to 4000Hz, that is why audio measurements are shown on a log scale.
To be fair, many people in this thread are going after the bass response. The issue may actually be the converter. I wonder how would it measure with direct drive.
 

Martin

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Messages
1,896
Likes
5,536
Location
Cape Coral, FL
Very interesting. The headphones look like a prototype, not a finished product. They look very fragile. Wouldn't mind hearing them but the price is out of my ballpark.

Martin
 

Ron Texas

Master Contributor
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
6,078
Likes
8,914
Looks awfully heavy and bulky. I probably wouldn't use them if someone gave me a pair. Thank you @amirm for another detailed review.
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
My general take on this type of design of headphones - I think it's a flawed concept in almost (or even) all ways! Nuff said!

They remind me of a headphone joke I saw months ago in the Call for Humour Thread - it was a cartoon pic of an old guy walking down the street with 2 speakers strapped to his head and I think a rucksack containing a couple of car batteries and a vinyl turntable attached strapped to his chest! This headphone is not far off that!
 

nj75f

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
52
Likes
29
Quote from the review:
Also Amir has tested the B&K 5128c which is suboptimal for the expectations.
See here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ng-and-bk-5128-hats-measurement-system.15147/

In conclusion, the current test equipment is more suitable than the expensive 5128c.

Crinacle posted some supplementary measurements here. So.
For crinacle's new measurement rig:
https://crinacle.com/2020/09/03/in-ear-fidelity-acquires-gras-setup-for-headphone-measurements/

His rig and Amir's are compatible and are the SOTA measurement equipment for headphones.
Care to explain please?
This from Amirm I see as no negative point
The 5128 extends the simulation limit of the older "711" standard substantially. But with it, it also makes the measurements non-standard so existing research may be difficult to apply to it.
So the measurement is better, in terms of how human really hear it, but it deviates from the standard up this this point in time.

What was expected?

The high frequency range 6-10k+ gets really tricky. All new hires head reduces natural ear canal resonances which lead to false measurement results.
comment #4
So you say the developers made a device which measures in a specific area more wrong than the old device and they haven't noticed it?
When your statement is true - you contacted them about this?

How the 711 and GRAS can be state of the art if the employee of the bk5128 made a new device too achieve more accuracy and true depiction?
Not trying to downplay all the measurements up to this point, but if the new device is proven more accurate in depiction of human hearing - from the developers who make such device - it should be said so.
 

JohnYang1997

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Audio Company
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
7,175
Likes
18,292
Location
China
Care to explain please?
This from Amirm I see as no negative point
So the measurement is better, in terms of how human really hear it, but it deviates from the standard up this this point in time.

What was expected?


comment #4
So you say the developers made a device which measures in a specific area more wrong than the old device and they haven't noticed it?
When your statement is true - you contacted them about this?

How the 711 and GRAS can be state of the art if the employee of the bk5128 made a new device too achieve more accuracy and true depiction?
Not trying to downplay all the measurements up to this point, but if the new device is proven more accurate in depiction of human hearing - from the developers who make such device - it should be said so.
Pls glance through the whole thread. There were artifacts and incompatibilities that made it unacceptable in the end. The measurement for Samsung akg s8/9 iem became utterly incomprehensible. Gras also made the hires pinna and coupler and it's done before b&k.
In the end, there was no "proven" to be more accurate. It has more severe artifacts and more non predicable behaviours than GRAS.
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
Pls glance through the whole thread. There were artifacts and incompatibilities that made it unacceptable in the end. The measurement for Samsung akg s8/9 iem became utterly incomprehensible. Gras also made the hires pinna and coupler and it's done before b&k.
In the end, there was no "proven" to be more accurate. It has more severe artifacts and more non predicable behaviours than GRAS.
(I think I followed that whole thread, and also posted a good deal in it as it was developing and I certainly don't remember that being concluded, so it's not particularly reasonable to ask him to read that whole thread to support your point.)
 

bennybbbx

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
691
Likes
124
Location
germany
for such a open headphone i always need a crossfeed tool, or i get ear pain. for example the math audio headphone EQ VST. when i use this the low frequency are reduced in stereo width. because many songs are overprocessed and get to much width on the bass. reduce it sound much better with my K1000 headphone
 
Top Bottom