Hindsider85
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Just check the linked PDF. Dont worry, its safe. Even if Chrome Browser somehow says the file would be "dangerous". Its an official document from Burr Brown.
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R2R vs Delta Sigma DACs - same results?
- Thread starter ohmywatt
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This paper is quite outdated (Do 15 Aug 1996 10:33:08 UTC). At the time BB probably had no Delta Sigma Dacs in their portfolio. Nowadays almost all DACs in Audio are Delta Sigma, and of those which are not most measure much worse.
somebodyelse
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Then why isn't the link to the official site?
oleg87
Addicted to Fun and Learning
That's most certainly not what it says. I don't think you have any understanding of what you probably didn't even read
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Frank is generally a good dude and down to earth.
Here, he's comparing a Delta Sigma and R2R methods in theory and how they work in principle, and what their respective advantages and disadvantages are.
...using a Burr Brown PCM1710 as an example. When did that come out? 1994? At least that's what the datasheet I found is saying. Of course it's going to have -70dB noise floor and that's really bad compared to an R2R DAC that came out last thursday. The whole comparison article he's referencing is similarly outdated.
Eh... Not his finest hour.
Here, he's comparing a Delta Sigma and R2R methods in theory and how they work in principle, and what their respective advantages and disadvantages are.
...using a Burr Brown PCM1710 as an example. When did that come out? 1994? At least that's what the datasheet I found is saying. Of course it's going to have -70dB noise floor and that's really bad compared to an R2R DAC that came out last thursday. The whole comparison article he's referencing is similarly outdated.
Eh... Not his finest hour.
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Jimster480
Major Contributor
What is the vast majority though? Are there a bunch of new R2R DAC's that are good? I just stumbled on the FiiO model today, but otherwise I am not really familiar with other new R2R DACs which are good.
DVDdoug
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If the DAC is reviewed here you can check the actual measurements.
Most DACs are better than human hearing and I don't worry about what's inside. The ONLY time I've heard a difference from a "DAC" it was a soundcard that made noise when the hard drive was accessed. I never heard anything wrong the DAC that was built-into my 1st CD player 40 years ago.
Most DACs are better than human hearing and I don't worry about what's inside. The ONLY time I've heard a difference from a "DAC" it was a soundcard that made noise when the hard drive was accessed. I never heard anything wrong the DAC that was built-into my 1st CD player 40 years ago.
Howdy @Ropeburn. Just want to say that I am still focused on that garbage from me yesterday. I am still dialing myself in. Stupid idiotic stuff and that should never be something I do.
We're not talking about a vast majority of R2R dacs, but a vast majority of all DACs Most of which are not R2R, and most of which are also audibly transparent.
Don't worry about it, focus on getting away from the shit that caused it. Maybe read the poetic Edda... it helps lol
Jimster480
Major Contributor
AH yes, that I agree with. Today the majority of the newer DAC's on the market are essentially audibly transparent.
oleg87
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Well, define "high"
By -80dB or so, it's perceptually irrelevant for any reasonable music-listening purpose, and I'd say it becomes dubiously significant for realistic material well before that.About the extent of meaningful sound "shaping" you ever actually see is high-frequency behavior of the filter.
I had a terrible absurdly really bad CD player with DAC and such that popped, fizzled, sizzled, snapped, crackled and sounded without fail horrendous on about 1/2 of all the CDs. A Kinergetics KCD-40 CD player. The Phillips PCB and ICs where bypassed with a extra PCB mounted above the Philips PCB and Kinergetics used a assortment of ICs from various manufacturers and the result was the most terrible daily driver CD player to ever be put on Earth. I am a very appreciative Kinergetics owners of 3 great monster amps from them but the CD player was absolute garbage.
Aw yeah, gear porn. At the first glance, it's ticking all the boxes... of a FrankenmonsterI had a terrible absurdly really bad CD player with DAC and such that popped, fizzled, sizzled, snapped, crackled and sounded without fail horrendous on about 1/2 of all the CDs. A Kinergetics KCD-40 CD player. The Phillips PCB and ICs where bypassed with a extra PCB mounted above the Philips PCB and Kinergetics used a assortment of ICs from various manufacturers and the result was the most terrible daily driver CD player to ever be put on Earth. I am a very appreciative Kinergetics owners of 3 great monster amps from them but the CD player was absolute garbage.
That presentation is from about 1995 if memory serves, and some clutching at straws may have been involved even then. Multibit audio DAC evolution had pretty much hit a wall, and arguably BB's newer models with no external MSB adjustments post PCM63 even were a step backwards (PCM1702/1704 generally have some issues with low-level linearity), while delta-sigma converters still were rapidly evolving. By 1999 at the latest, the tables had turned, and the old model of separate digital filter + 2 discrete DAC chips (each costing a good chunk of money) was basically dead. With fully integrated delta-sigma converters being both better and cheaper, manufacturers voted with their feet as anyone would. I imagine the collapse of the multibit business had a lot to do with why BB was taken over by TI.
Actually, they did (e.g. PCM1710), and some of the first with multibit modulators too. Their performance was not necessarily bleeding edge but they did exist. By late 1997 their PCM1716 was even giving the CS4390 a pretty good run for its money while having double speed support. But with the arrival of 120 dB class quad speed DACs from AKM, Cirrus and AD, they were left pretty far behind, not catching back up until 2001 with their PCM1738. The business did continue decently, with lots of action in the consumer space, but the bleeding edge was defined by others.
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I was heavily and deeply specialized into the repair of high end car audio at the time. It was all high end mechatronics cassette, DAT and mini-disc head units with monster car amps up to over 3 feet/1m long. I was designated the warranty service technician by a importer/wholesaler of Kinergetics that I had the Canada wide service agreement with for Coustic and Soundstream car audio amps, active crossovers etc and so I had all sorts of neat Kinergetics gear on my workbench too. I enjoyed the Kinergetics home amps very much and added that to my home audio system and the Kinergetics KCD-40 CD player was a off-spin from that. Otherwise that major mistake would never have occurred...LoL.Aw yeah, gear porn. At the first glance, it's ticking all the boxes... of a Frankenmonster
Jimster480
Major Contributor
Nah, -80 is complete dogwater trash. I guess if you use 1940s speakers to listen to music, it probably doesn't matter. Otherwise your audio will always sound subpar.Well, define "high"
About the extent of meaningful sound "shaping" you ever actually see is high-frequency behavior of the filter.
Where's the summary of the video for consideration? Let alone why this guy's opinion matters? That sort of thing, rather than just clicking on a link. I find the premise dubious at best in any case.
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