R2R DACs are on a roll- New Fiio K13 R2R Balanced DAC

[maudio]

I considered this DAC but after doing my due diligence it turned out the DAC is basically the same like K11 r2r, only the headphone amp is substantially better.

So i went for the K11 r2r, and what can i tell ya, i moved on from SMSL SU-1.
SU-1 is fantastic DAC if used with a much better power supply, but now im running the K11 r2r on a Teddy Pardo that was lying around and i couldn’t be happier. Dynamic low bass, excellent vocals..PRAT.
and i had NOS DACs worth 2k€ b4, now can live with K11 r2r in NOS mode.

sometime less IS more.

Absolute recommendation for K11 r2r and also K13 if you need headphonez.

Just get a better PSU - Teddy Pardo isnt even a LPSU and 2nd hand costs can be around 300 € if your lucky. I just wouldnt take something around 200 new.

 

[Grotti]

Why do people who (might) call themselves audiophiles feel ok about running a R2R DAC in NOS mode, when NOS is the opposite of the faithful reproduction of a source? And for the most time refuse to challenge their preference by ABX testing? I have a feeling what the answer will be and I'm not sure if I want to read it...

 

[maudio]

Why do people who (might) call themselves audiophiles feel ok about running a R2R DAC in NOS mode, when NOS is the opposite of the faithful reproduction of a source? And for the most time refuse to challenge their preference by ABX testing? I have a feeling what the answer will be and I'm not sure if I want to read it...

Care to elaborate hows NOS the opposite of true to source reproduction? I do have IT engineering background and MSc in it and know some basics about real time algorithms and processing like it is used in digital audio processing even if it is not my specialty so i’m sure i will be able to follow you.

 

[Tonton_ZEeD]

Why do people who (might) call themselves audiophiles feel ok about running a R2R DAC in NOS mode, when NOS is the opposite of the faithful reproduction of a source? And for the most time refuse to challenge their preference by ABX testing? I have a feeling what the answer will be and I'm not sure if I want to read it...

What is an audiophile? Someone who loves music? Someone who loves audio equipment? Someone who loves science?

I like mediocre-sounding music and cheap Chinese audio equipment!

 

[voodooless]

Care to elaborate hows NOS the opposite of true to source reproduction?

I guess a picture tells more than a thousand words:

More info here:

NOS vs. Digital Filtering DACs: Exploring filtering turned off, implications, fidelity and subjective audibility. (Recent BorderPatrol DAC chatter...)

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

 

[solderdude]

The result is that the 'stairsteps' are 'smoothed' by the limited frequency range of the ear.
However, the high frequencies in the music signal get modulated by the sampling frequency.
This is perceived as a (gentle) roll-off in the highest treble/air.
Some people prefer that for some reason.
When using upsampling or >88.2kHz files the 'roll-off' is not occurring in the audible band so sounds the same as a filtered DAC.

However, when used with for instance class D amps one might get unwanted signals. Also there is a LOT of (inaudible and definitely unwanted) 'mirrored' audio signal that can put extra strain om tweeters and do God knows what when interfering with the the switching signal of class D amps that don't have proper HF filtering on the input.

So technically a VERY bad audio signal but thanks to our hearing not caring about > 20kHz signals and often preferring a mild roll-off (for instance when headphones or speakers peak there).

 

[Mnyb]

The result is that the 'stairsteps' are 'smoothed' by the limited frequency range of the ear.
However, the high frequencies in the music signal get modulated by the sampling frequency.
This is perceived as a (gentle) roll-off in the highest treble/air.
Some people prefer that for some reason.
When using upsampling or >88.2kHz files the 'roll-off' is not occurring in the audible band so sounds the same as a filtered DAC.

However, when used with for instance class D amps one might get unwanted signals. Also there is a LOT of (inaudible and definitely unwanted) 'mirrored' audio signal that can put extra strain om tweeters and do God knows what when interfering with the the switching signal of class D amps that don't have proper HF filtering on the input.

So technically a VERY bad audio signal but thanks to our hearing not caring about > 20kHz signals and often preferring a mild roll-off (for instance when headphones or speakers peak there).

One can speculate that its also possibly to make some audio gear misbehave , afaik some tube power amps has som hf resonances in the output transformer that you might not want to provoke , effect is probably benign but who knows ? why not just a proper reconstruction of your signal ?

 

[solderdude]

why not just a proper reconstruction of your signal ?

That would be best but alas there are people that believe a filter is not needed and only does harm to the sound.

All one can do is point them to the errors in their ways but most likely will not change their mind as they have convinced themselves filters are bad.

 

[solawind]

This is perceived as a (gentle) roll-off in the highest treble/air.

Well some ppl really may prefer such a "warmer" and "smoother" sound. Of course, an EQ preset would do a better and more controllable job, keeping waveforms safe

 

[solderdude]

Yes, but somehow these ppl are hard to convince.
Probably because the audible effects are not exactly the same as the actual 'effect' on the treble isn't exactly the same as roll-off by a filter.

 

[teleblaze]

I considered this DAC but after doing my due diligence it turned out the DAC is basically the same like K11 r2r, only the headphone amp is substantially better.

So i went for the K11 r2r, and what can i tell ya, i moved on from SMSL SU-1.
SU-1 is fantastic DAC if used with a much better power supply, but now im running the K11 r2r on a Teddy Pardo that was lying around and i couldn’t be happier. Dynamic low bass, excellent vocals..PRAT.
and i had NOS DACs worth 2k€ b4, now can live with K11 r2r in NOS mode.

sometime less IS more.

Absolute recommendation for K11 r2r and also K13 if you need headphonez.

Just get a better PSU - Teddy Pardo isnt even a LPSU and 2nd hand costs can be around 300 € if your lucky. I just wouldnt take something around 200 new.

FiiO will launch a matching lps around December most likely.

 

[fiercekid84]

just got my from tao bao app and is on the way to singapore.

 

[babadono]

I guess a picture tells more than a thousand words:

View attachment 485765

More info here:

NOS vs. Digital Filtering DACs: Exploring filtering turned off, implications, fidelity and subjective audibility. (Recent BorderPatrol DAC chatter...)

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

can I give more than a like? Like a like,like,like,really like?

 

[raif71]

can I give more than a like? Like a like,like,like,really like?

Yes, you can click "like" multiple times but click it in even numbers

 

[Dsggolv77]

NJW1195AWhy not using R2R relay volume control with this R2R dac

 

[mhardy6647]

Quite, everyone knows that only R2R dacs bring the live musicians ( even the dead ones) into your living room.
Keith

fortunately, the bandwidth doesn't extend far enough to reproduce smell -- in the latter case.

 

[mhardy6647]

I guess a picture tells more than a thousand words:

View attachment 485765

More info here:

NOS vs. Digital Filtering DACs: Exploring filtering turned off, implications, fidelity and subjective audibility. (Recent BorderPatrol DAC chatter...)

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

Stairsteps.
You know...
I'll bet there's a market for an MC Escher DAC.

 

[boXem]

NJW1195AWhy not using R2R relay volume control with this R2R dac

Maybe because R2R volume control is not a real thing?

 

[babadono]

Quite, everyone knows that only R2R dacs bring the live musicians ( even the dead ones) into your living room.
Keith Richards

Fixed it fer ya

 

[JSmith]

even the dead ones

I'm sure they would be grateful...


JSmith