Welp feeling crappy about my purchase now since I do have -3db of headroom and -5db preamp on my PEQ in Roon..
Too late to return now, but you live and you learn. Maybe it won’t be too noticeable to me.
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R2R DACs are on a roll- New Fiio K13 R2R Balanced DAC
- Thread starter Guddu
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Too late to return now, but you live and you learn. Maybe it won’t be too noticeable to me.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Listen first ... you, like many other owners, may not regret the purchase and enjoy the sound.
One should remember that we have been spoiled with SOTA performance DACs at < $ 100.- but that is all so far below any audible levels that it really does not matter for the sound, only for the numbers.
This DAC is already better than vinyl and tape and that is even the holy grail for some folks.
Don't worry and enjoy the music.
-70dB is as good as inaudible in almost all cases.
Even when that would be reduced a few dB it would still not be 'sound degrading'.
One should remember that we have been spoiled with SOTA performance DACs at < $ 100.- but that is all so far below any audible levels that it really does not matter for the sound, only for the numbers.
This DAC is already better than vinyl and tape and that is even the holy grail for some folks.
Don't worry and enjoy the music.
-70dB is as good as inaudible in almost all cases.
Even when that would be reduced a few dB it would still not be 'sound degrading'.
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OP
Guddu
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Which one you got - K11 r2r or K13 r2r?Welp feeling crappy about my purchase now since I do have -3db of headroom and -5db preamp on my PEQ in Roon..
Too late to return now, but you live and you learn. Maybe it won’t be too noticeable to me.
I hear no distortion or any other issues with K13 R2R.
I would rather try forgetting what’s connected and focus on enjoying, if you hear no issues and like it then what’s the point of chasing measurements….. specially when you already bought it.
K13
I wish the manual was more detailed. I’m trying to figure out the difference between EQ OFF and EQbyPAS
My DSD256 audio does not play when EQbyPAS mode is on so I’m curious what the technicalities are.
I’m assuming EQ Off still routes the audio through the DSP chain where as the bypass mode does something different?
FiiO got back to me and confirmed that the EQ Bypass (EQbyPAS) setting does not actually create a direct, untouched signal path. Instead, the DAC's XMOS chip still routes the audio through the EQ processing engine—it just sets the sliders to "flat."
Because the audio is still technically inside the EQ pipeline, it inherits all the limitations of the EQ hardware. Here are those relative limits:
- No DSD Support: The EQ engine can only process PCM data. Since "Bypass" is technically a sub-mode of the EQ engine, DSD playback remains disabled.
- Sample Rate Cap: The EQ engine limits the maximum sample rate to 192kHz. Higher rates (like 384kHz or 768kHz) require the EQ engine to be fully disabled, not just bypassed.
In short: To the DAC, "EQbyPAS" mode is just an EQ preset with zero gain. To play DSD or files above 192kHz, you must switch the EQ mode entirely to OFF, rather than just using the Bypass setting.
In short: To the DAC, "EQbyPAS" mode is just an EQ preset with zero gain. To play DSD or files above 192kHz, you must switch the EQ mode entirely to OFF, rather than just using the Bypass setting.
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yes I just found that too i.e. I had to have EQ off on the K13 to playback DSD and have the K13 display as D64, When EQ was in byPAS mode it was playing DSD64 (a ripped SACD) from FoorBar2K using DoP as 176K was showing on the K13 display
Hi! I purchased this daс.
If you look at the indicator straight on or at a slight angle, everything is fine (001.jpg). But if you look from above, you can see this light leak on the right (002.jpg).
People, take a look at your own - is there such a bug?
Interesting, how can it be corrected?
If you look at the indicator straight on or at a slight angle, everything is fine (001.jpg). But if you look from above, you can see this light leak on the right (002.jpg).
People, take a look at your own - is there such a bug?
Interesting, how can it be corrected?
Attachments
Mine doesn't get that light leak even when adjusted to maximum brightness
Ufasas
Active Member
don't really pay attention to this, i just care it works with all of my headphones :V
brockduffy
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Just to chime in here on some of the quite dismissive replies on DACs having discernable characteristics or not…
As an audio engineer who uses both a Prism Dream ADA 8XR (multibit ladder) and a RME Fireface 800 (delta sigma chips), I can absolutely tell the difference blind between these 2 and unless I’m mistaken it falls in line with the different characteristics of the DAC technology in each unit. The Prism has a noticeable hi frequency veil compared with the RME, but sounds more dense and phase coherent, while being less harsh and dare I say it ‘more musical’. Any song with hi hats/shakers/female vox will make obvious the differences between the 2 units - I feel confident most on this group would be able to differentiate between them also. 10+ Years of using both you would know instinctively.
Discounting the AD and preamps, I would use the Prism for sending audio out to outboard audio processors for these qualities, or use for longer sessions where ear fatigue is a factor. For detailed vocal clean up and noise removal I will switch to the Fireface so as to make sure I’m getting the full picture in the top end. I can get the job done on either, and I agree that difference between different DS chips in a modern DAC is negligible these days and certainly not a prohibiting factor to their use. But I think some people on here are seeming to suggest that there is no audible difference at all between a device using an R2R design like the K13, and one using an ESS/AKM chip, whilst at the same time declaring R2R being obsolete technology?
I think it is totally reasonable to favour one over the other because there absolutely is an audible difference between the two.
As an audio engineer who uses both a Prism Dream ADA 8XR (multibit ladder) and a RME Fireface 800 (delta sigma chips), I can absolutely tell the difference blind between these 2 and unless I’m mistaken it falls in line with the different characteristics of the DAC technology in each unit. The Prism has a noticeable hi frequency veil compared with the RME, but sounds more dense and phase coherent, while being less harsh and dare I say it ‘more musical’. Any song with hi hats/shakers/female vox will make obvious the differences between the 2 units - I feel confident most on this group would be able to differentiate between them also. 10+ Years of using both you would know instinctively.
Discounting the AD and preamps, I would use the Prism for sending audio out to outboard audio processors for these qualities, or use for longer sessions where ear fatigue is a factor. For detailed vocal clean up and noise removal I will switch to the Fireface so as to make sure I’m getting the full picture in the top end. I can get the job done on either, and I agree that difference between different DS chips in a modern DAC is negligible these days and certainly not a prohibiting factor to their use. But I think some people on here are seeming to suggest that there is no audible difference at all between a device using an R2R design like the K13, and one using an ESS/AKM chip, whilst at the same time declaring R2R being obsolete technology?
I think it is totally reasonable to favour one over the other because there absolutely is an audible difference between the two.
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Svend P
Addicted to Fun and Learning
It is not supported be measurements. You need to test blind and level matched
How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent?
I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE...
www.audiosciencereview.com
I’m sure he doesn’t have to because he’s an audio engineer…It is not supported be measurements. You need to test blind and level matched
How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent?
I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE...
This is where our ASR prevailing "measurements only!" beliefs break down for me. I believe that things may be hard to measure as being different, but that two different dac devices - with all of their associated electrical components - could sound slightly different, particularly to someone who's been using them for 10+ years. We don't have to abandon our overall objective stance to give other people some props for their subjective reporting.
There is no “measurement only” belief system at ASR. We rely on science that brings us experimentation and concrete proof, and let’s us understand when and how things will sound different. There is literally decades worth or research in numerous fields in audibility of all kinds of things. Likewise there is decades worth of research that shows us how unreliable our sensory systems are, and how prone they are to biases of all kinds.
brockduffy
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I have both interfaces level matched, and can usually tell which one the Mac is using without A/Bing. I’m not saying this to sound impressive, I honestly think anyone here could too with the same amount of hours in front of them both. I also have no reason to favour one or the other, they’re just different.
In regards to measurements, I’m not sure I follow? What measurements are you referring to?
In regards to measurements, I’m not sure I follow? What measurements are you referring to?
Feel free to prove you can hear the difference with a properly controlled double blind test.
Subjective reporting based on sighted listening is valueless in the case of devices which measure as having only inaudible differences.
See, I called it!
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