Quick ground question

[GabrielPhoto]

Hi all!
If I had devices connected to a common piece of gear like my old Monster HTPS 7000 conditioner, if I wanted to share ground between those devices that are connected to the Monster and others not connected to it, I just can connect a wire from the Monster to those other devices, instead of having to daisy chain every single device?
In there words, by connecting a ground wire to the Monster conditioner, is like I was connecting a separate ground cable to each device that is plugged into the Monster?

I hope that made sense.

 

[Ground Noise Industries]

There are going to be much better answers to come. Neither you or I are electrical engineers. Here are my 2 cents.

Each piece of equipment was 'properly' designed with either a 'grounded' chassis configuration (3 conductor to mains, one of which is the dedicated 'ground') or double insulated (two conductor, no ground). There is also battery operated equipment to consider when grounding is involved. I would be cautious of adding additional ground wires to equipment. It could cause additional issues and possible damage to the equipment or yourself. Most professional racks are grounded and all equipment mounted is theoretically tied to the same ground through the chassis. You MUST know what you are doing before proceeding. DIY Audio has many great threads about grounding. Creating additional ground paths is problematic. If you provide a diagram other contributors can give you better advice.

 

[DVDdoug]

Why? Do you have a hum problem that you're trying to fix? ADDING extra grounds can sometimes fix a hum problem, but it creates opportunities for ground loops, possibly causing more hum so it can create a problem or make the problem worse. If you try it and it doesn't make hum worse, there's no harm.

You should NOT disconnect the existing ground from any 3-prong power plugs. That's a safety ground in case something goes wrong.

 

[Ground Noise Industries]

You can also try products like the Ebtech((Morley) or Jensen isolation transformers to isolate audio level connections via Galvanic Isolation. These can be powerful tools to solve or isolate equipment that is behaving poorly. Make sure you use the correct type: there is a difference between 'input' and 'output' transformers. Changing impedance can bring new problems into the audible band.

Read Bill Whitlock's research and some videos on u-tube. Even Amir covered Bill's research in a video. There are others also but being part of the AES lends great confidence that what is stated is 'true' for current understanding of electrical properties.

 

[solderdude]

Hi all!
If I had devices connected to a common piece of gear like my old Monster HTPS 7000 conditioner, if I wanted to share ground between those devices that are connected to the Monster and others not connected to it, I just can connect a wire from the Monster to those other devices, instead of having to daisy chain every single device?
In there words, by connecting a ground wire to the Monster conditioner, is like I was connecting a separate ground cable to each device that is plugged into the Monster?

I hope that made sense.

With ground you probably meant safety ground.
This is not always the same as signal ground (shield of audio cables) but often is connected somewhere.
Safety ground is NEVER a 'clean' ground. It is there for safety of the user in case some device fails in a particular way and this prevents the user from electrical shocks.
Safety ground also is never 'low impedance' for any RF signals/noise either.

When you connect all mains plugs of all interconnected audio/video devices to one outlet socket (say output of the conditioner) than all devices that require safety ground are connected to safety ground (assuming the conditioner is connected to a wall outlet with a safety ground).
Simply use a distribution socket at the output of the conditioner (if that can handle the required peak power draw).

Best not to use separate 'ground' wires, just use the mains cables that come with the gear.

You can still experience some hum when interconnecting gear due to 'mains leakage' caused by mains filters finding a return path via interlink cables.

 

[Timcognito]

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

+1

There are going to be much better answers to come. Neither you or I are electrical engineers. Here are my 2 cents.

Each piece of equipment was 'properly' designed with either a 'grounded' chassis configuration (3 conductor to mains, one of which is the dedicated 'ground') or double insulated (two conductor, no ground). There is also battery operated equipment to consider when grounding is involved. I would be cautious of adding additional ground wires to equipment. It could cause additional issues and possible damage to the equipment or yourself. Most professional racks are grounded and all equipment mounted is theoretically tied to the same ground through the chassis. You MUST know what you are doing before proceeding. DIY Audio has many great threads about grounding. Creating additional ground paths is problematic. If you provide a diagram other contributors can give you better advice.

If you don't hear any hum in your system.. Leave it as it is. else, you could create more harm than you anticipated and are prepared for.
If there is more arcane, more obscure and poorly understood than grounding in the US Electrical System.. I'd like to know about it.


Peace

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Help this poor ME out: In electronics everything is grounded to the neutral and a the enclosure to the earth if its metal?

No, there really isn't a simple "it's done this way" that's true for all countries in all cases. Sorry!

Generally, there are three AC phases. These are relative to a "zero" point or neutral. The electricity supplier is responsible for bonding neutral to a ground. Domestically, it's a good idea to assume the earth prong and neutral prong are very close but not necessarily identical in potential and to treat them as two separate things.

 

[Speedskater]

In the US, 3 phase AC is industrial & large commercial thing.
Residential and light commercial use a single phase, center tapped 240/120 Volt system.
The Safety Ground is attached to the Neutral at the main breaker panel.
The exterior attachment to Planet Earth has little to do with day-to-day AC power quality.

 

[Waxx]

In the US, 3 phase AC is industrial & large commercial thing.
Residential and light commercial use a single phase, center tapped 240/120 Volt system.
The Safety Ground is attached to the Neutral at the main breaker panel.
The exterior attachment to Planet Earth has little to do with day-to-day AC power quality.

It used to be also in Europe, but since at least the 1980's, 3phase 240v connections are common in houses also to feed electric equipment that asks a lot of power like ceramic electric stoves or heating systems. And with the heatpump and electric cars it became a standard for new houses.

My house has 3 phase with 63A 240v per phase, installed in 1993 by the former owner to power the electric stove in the kitchen and the electric boilers. Heating is still done with an oil burner feeding central heating and a wood stove altough.

Industrial power here is 400v 3 phase, where each phase has 63A in 400V. And big companies (like the metallurgy company i work as consultant for) have high voltage connections, as even that 400v 3 phase can't deliver the power needed.

 

[Ground Noise Industries]

Industrial power here is 400v 3 phase, where each phase has 63A in 400V. And big companies (like the metallurgy company i work as consultant for) have high voltage connections, as even that 400v 3 phase can't deliver the power needed.

In my opinion, I agree the power companies can't deliver the power needed.

The following are the important items I need to remind myself of when these questions come up. Energy 'capture' can be less expensive or expensive; the ability to deliver reliably is expensive since most is 'on demand'. Our electric grids are antiquated. Pumped hydro or a big tank of natural gas is effective storage--ready for high demand times. Batteries still kind of suck for such large needs. It seems better to keep potential energy in a high state and slipstream it when demand needs it.

But, DELIVERY is a real problem. Nobody wants the coal or nuclear plant in their back yard. So the delivery infrastructure costs have gone up because companies don't want to spend the cash on increasing delivery capacity. It is a real bottleneck in the U.S for private and commercial interests.

Great primer for the math of three phase.

If a 1-Phase Supply is 230V, Why is 3-Phase 400V & Not 690V?

When Single Phase Supply Voltage is 220V, Why is Three Phase 440V and Not 660V? If the Single Phase supply voltage is 230V, Why is three Phase 400V and Not 690V?

www.electricaltechnology.org

Power vs Energy

Difference between Energy and Power - GeeksforGeeks

Your All-in-One Learning Portal: GeeksforGeeks is a comprehensive educational platform that empowers learners across domains-spanning computer science and programming, school education, upskilling, commerce, software tools, competitive exams, and more.

www.geeksforgeeks.org

Energy is the capacity to do work or produce change in a physical system.

Power is measures the rate at which work is done or energy is transferred.
The standard unit of power is the watt (W), which equals one joule per second.

Power is calculated using the formula: P = E/t

 

[Waxx]

In my opinion, I agree the power companies can't deliver the power needed.

The following are the important items I need to remind myself of when these questions come up. Energy 'capture' can be less expensive or expensive; the ability to deliver reliably is expensive since most is 'on demand'. Our electric grids are antiquated. Pumped hydro or a big tank of natural gas is effective storage--ready for high demand times. Batteries still kind of suck for such large needs. It seems better to keep potential energy in a high state and slipstream it when demand needs it.

But, DELIVERY is a real problem. Nobody wants the coal or nuclear plant in their back yard. So the delivery infrastructure costs have gone up because companies don't want to spend the cash on increasing delivery capacity. It is a real bottleneck in the U.S for private and commercial interests.

Great primer for the math of three phase.

If a 1-Phase Supply is 230V, Why is 3-Phase 400V & Not 690V?

When Single Phase Supply Voltage is 220V, Why is Three Phase 440V and Not 660V? If the Single Phase supply voltage is 230V, Why is three Phase 400V and Not 690V?

www.electricaltechnology.org

Power vs Energy

Difference between Energy and Power - GeeksforGeeks

Your All-in-One Learning Portal: GeeksforGeeks is a comprehensive educational platform that empowers learners across domains-spanning computer science and programming, school education, upskilling, commerce, software tools, competitive exams, and more.

www.geeksforgeeks.org

Energy is the capacity to do work or produce change in a physical system.

Power is measures the rate at which work is done or energy is transferred.
The standard unit of power is the watt (W), which equals one joule per second.

Power is calculated using the formula: P = E/t

The power is not that a problem, but most small bussinesses don't need more than that. If you want higher, it can, but comes at a higher cost.

The strongest connection possible in Belgium is a 110kVA, but that requires an own tranfo cabine and a special contract and is not availeble everywhere. Then you need to be close to a power plant or a high voltage power line. In the harbor of Antwerp there are dozens of companies who use that kind of connections. But the nuclear plant that powers them is there also (on the leftbank of the Schelde river in Doel). Where i live (remote country side) you won't have that kind of power availeble.