Questions pertaining to setup and how to apply EQ

[kaffe]

Hello,

I have some questions pertaining to my newly acquired setup, including how to configure it properly for optimal performance in terms of sound quality and ease of use.

Setup:

• Computer with a Gigabyte X870E Aorus Pro motherboard: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X870E-AORUS-PRO-rev-10/sp#sp
• SMSL RAW-MDA 1 amp/dac
• Sennheiser HD 650
• Windows 11

The motherboard supports S/PDIF out.

Ideally I would like to apply EQ to designated programs only, for example Tidal or Chrome.

Specifically I would like to apply Oratory1990’s standard Harman target EQ preset which can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets/.

From what I have been able to gather so far APO EQ is pretty much ideal for applying the preset as such.

To sum up my goal is to apply EQ only to particular programs such as Tidal on my computer which will be connected to the amp/dac via either S/PDIF or USB:

Tidal -> APO EQ -> amp/dac > HD 650.

Questions:

1. What is the best solution for connecting the amp/dac to the computer? I read somewhere that connecting via S/PDIF might reduce interference and noise compared to connecting via USB.
2. Is it possible to use APO EQ with the above-mentioned preset together with Tidal and the amp/dac?
3. If yes to the above, is it possible to apply the preset only to specific programs?

Thank you!

 

[Jimbob54]

Hello,

I have some questions pertaining to my newly acquired setup, including how to configure it properly for optimal performance in terms of sound quality and ease of use.

Setup:

• Computer with a Gigabyte X870E Aorus Pro motherboard: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X870E-AORUS-PRO-rev-10/sp#sp
• SMSL RAW-MDA 1 amp/dac
• Sennheiser HD 650
• Windows 11

The motherboard supports S/PDIF out.

Ideally I would like to apply EQ to designated programs only, for example Tidal or Chrome.

Specifically I would like to apply Oratory1990’s standard Harman target EQ preset which can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets/.

From what I have been able to gather so far APO EQ is pretty much ideal for applying the preset as such.

To sum up my goal is to apply EQ only to particular programs such as Tidal on my computer which will be connected to the amp/dac via either S/PDIF or USB:

Tidal -> APO EQ -> amp/dac > HD 650.

Questions:

1. What is the best solution for connecting the amp/dac to the computer? I read somewhere that connecting via S/PDIF might reduce interference and noise compared to connecting via USB.
2. Is it possible to use APO EQ with the above-mentioned preset together with Tidal and the amp/dac?
3. If yes to the above, is it possible to apply the preset only to specific programs?

Thank you!

1. Id just use usb unless you hear anything .
2. Absolutely
3. Not really. I'm sure people will offer complex workarounds but eapo works on anything going through the windows audio route . Which is everything that isn't going directly to outboard devices via exclusive mode. Tidal could go to the dac directly in exclusive mode but then you don't get eapo in the chain (as windows audio isn't either )

For me id keep it simple. Usb to Dac via eapo .

 

[staticV3]

EQApo works best when applied to USB devices and can be temperamental when applied to PCI devices like your motherboard's SPDIF output instead.

SPDIF, specifically Optical/Toslink can indeed get rid of interference noise that USB can transmit in certain scenarios.

If you suffer from such noise and would like to switch to Optical, then I'd recommend you buy a USB to Optical converter like the Hifime UT23 or SMSL PO100 2024, so that EQApo will still work reliably.

Yes you can apply EQApo to Tidal, as long as you keep the Exclusive mode in the Tidal App disabled.

To import an oratory1990 preset into EQApo, it's best to first convert it to .txt
Afterwards, you can load it into the Configuration Editor like so: https://youtu.be/jkgcsVNTJvc

There are a few "gotchas" when converting to .txt, like how high-shelves must be written as HSC and low-shelves as LSC, so if you tell me which presets you're interested in, then I'll gladly convert them for you.

Afaik, EQApo cannot differentiate between audio coming from different programs.
It will apply the same processing equally to all sound sources.

 

[kaffe]

1. Id just use usb unless you hear anything .
2. Absolutely
3. Not really. I'm sure people will offer complex workarounds but eapo works on anything going through the windows audio route . Which is everything that isn't going directly to outboard devices via exclusive mode. Tidal could go to the dac directly in exclusive mode but then you don't get eapo in the chain (as windows audio isn't either )

For me id keep it simple. Usb to Dac via eapo .

Hello Jimbob54

Many thanks!

I'll stick to the simple solution then.
I haven't gotten around to installing APO EQ yet, but I suppose it will just be a matter of toggling the preset on/off depending on whether I want EQ applied or not?

Perhaps you can help me answering if this USB cable will suffice? https://eu.ugreen.com/products/ugre...er-cable-nylon-braided?variant=47462695928156. It's a USB-C to USB-C. I think I read somewhere that it doesn't matter whether it's USB 1.1, 2.0 or USB 3.X?

EQApo works best when applied to USB devices and can be temperamental when applied to PCI devices like your motherboard's SPDIF output instead.

SPDIF, specifically Optical/Toslink can indeed get rid of interference noise that USB can transmit in certain scenarios.

If you suffer from such noise and would like to switch to Optical, then I'd recommend you buy a USB to Optical converter like the Hifime UT23 or SMSL PO100 2024, so that EQApo will still work reliably.

Yes you can apply EQApo to Tidal, as long as you keep the Exclusive mode in the Tidal App disabled.

To import an oratory1990 preset into EQApo, it's best to first convert it to .txt
Afterwards, you can load it into the Configuration Editor like so: https://youtu.be/jkgcsVNTJvc

There are a few "gotchas" when converting to .txt, like how high-shelves must be written as HSC and low-shelves as LSC, so if you tell me which presets you're interested in, then I'll gladly convert them for you.

Afaik, EQApo cannot differentiate between audio coming from different programs.
It will apply the same processing equally to all sound sources.

Hello staticV3

Thanks a bunch for the advice and your offer, that is very kind of you. Would be much appreciated if you'd convert the preset mentioned just below.

I think I read somewhere that for parametric equalization (I suppose that is what APO EQ can do) you should pick the standard preset for the Sennheiser HD 650 found here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xvxp....pdf?rlkey=ujn2aowc3r5kc74se2j9n9hqb&e=1&dl=0, but please correct me if I am wrong.

No idea if noise is an issue yet as I am still waiting on the amp/dac and heaphones too, but I'll give the USB connection a chance first. But I will definitely keep your recommendation in mind.

______________________

Can somebody by any chance tell me the length of the power cable included with the SMSL RAW-MDA 1? In case it's short of 2 meters which seems likely I will need to replace it with another. Not sure about which cable to choose for that either.

/Mark

 

[Gitfiddle]

If you want to try SPDIF and EQApo gives you problems for some reason. I've been using voicemeeter banana with SPDIF for the better part of a decade now.

Here is some good reading for you as well.

Ending the Windows Audio Quality Debate

A debate has been long raging in the audio community that Windows isn't fit for use in a high resolution audio system. Sceptics counterargued that bits are bits and Windows audio degradations are a figment of an over-active audiophile imagination. I decided to investigate this as I kept...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Another reason I use voicemeeter is to run my audio in WASAPI to circumvent these windows oddities.

 

[kaffe]

If you want to try SPDIF and EQApo gives you problems for some reason. I've been using voicemeeter banana with SPDIF for the better part of a decade now.

Here is some good reading for you as well.

Ending the Windows Audio Quality Debate

A debate has been long raging in the audio community that Windows isn't fit for use in a high resolution audio system. Sceptics counterargued that bits are bits and Windows audio degradations are a figment of an over-active audiophile imagination. I decided to investigate this as I kept...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Another reason I use voicemeeter is to run my audio in WASAPI to circumvent these windows oddities.

Thanks for the tip, Gitfiddle! If I experience any problems with a USB cable I’ll keep your suggestion in mind. But for now I want to try and keep it as simple as possible with as few connections and software as possible.

According to SMSL the RAW MDA 1 has two different modes to choose from, USB 1.1 and USB 2.0: https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/887.html.

As far as I know USB-C is 4.0.

Is it possible to use a USB-C to USB-C cable with the amp/dac since USB-C is backwards compatible with earlier USB versions in terms of data transfer? If using USB causes any problems with noise and the like I can better use such a cable for other purposes than a USB-C to USB 2.0.

 

[ZolaIII]

AutoEq

Automatic headphone equalization

autoeq.app

Keap it simple or complicate as much as you like (tilt, recompense, make convolution...) keep the HATS and ears the same for to desired target and measurements. WDM will work to anything that goes trough it on Windows (EQ-APO with/without shirt front end, JRiver...). Understand headphones/speakers you have and they limitations and work with EQ to get it better and again in line with their capabilities. We only got to USB audio 2.0 in active use (3.0 standard is there but no one implemented it), every general USB revision including two lines USB 4 40 Gbit is USB 2.0 backwards compatible. Problem especially on gaming rigs of today are very noisy (as it sucks a lot of power) switching power supplies. When you cut the power part out of USB transmission (data only) it's not a problem anymore. Toslink is light so it cuts it physically but I doubt you will need it but you can use it if you want. JRiver even suports full separate DSP tool chain over DLNA.

 

[Gitfiddle]

Is it possible to use a USB-C to USB-C cable with the amp/dac since USB-C is backwards compatible with earlier USB versions in terms of data transfer? If using USB causes any problems with noise and the like I can better use such a cable for other purposes than a USB-C to USB 2.0.

I would assume it would work fine. Creating a ground loop is a possibility, so if you have any audible hum or buzz that may be why. Hopefully everything just works and you don't need to worry about it after setting everything up once.

 

[kaffe]

/Realised you can access presets (AutoEQ) via Peace. Nice!

 

[staticV3]

Would be much appreciated if you'd convert the preset mentioned just below.

Attached below is oratory's preset converted to .txt

Personally, I'd recommend you use EQApo without the Peace GUI, just with the default Configuration Editor.

To import the preset into EQApo's default Configuration Editor, first add a Basic controls->Preamp block and then an Include block following the steps here: https://youtu.be/jkgcsVNTJvc

Then turn down the Preamp until the Editor reads "Peak gain: 0.0dB" or less in the bottom left corner:


Then to compare EQ vs no EQ, you can toggle just the EQ (Include block) on and off, without changing the playback volume which is not possible with Peace.

Finally, to modify the preset according to the instructions in oratory's PDFs, click on the green arrow in the Include block and a new tab will open where you can fiddle with the values of each filter band.

Ever change you make there is written to the .txt file in realtime, so you can simply close the tab once you're done and everything is saved.

 

[kaffe]

Cheers, staticV3!

Is the purpose of adjusting gain just to compare with/without EQ or are there other reasons to do so as well?

Also, at the moment I am still waiting on the HD 650. I have a pair of Truthear Zero though I could test on.
If I want to "add" the Harman curve to the Truthear is it as simple as plugging in the values of each filter band according to the preset found here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t7tx....pdf?rlkey=izx7e2bn8zc9oeb6s2wvtxhur&e=1&dl=0, or is there more to it?

 

[staticV3]

Is the purpose of adjusting gain just to compare with/without EQ or are there other reasons to do so as well?

Oratory's presets are a mix of cut and boost filters.

Setting the preamp to the same value as the highest boost of the preset (note that overlapping filters will add to each other), ensures that the effective filter response never exceeds +0dB and that digital clipping will not occur:


Peace has a similar Preamp, but there you cannot toggle just the EQ off while leaving the preamp alone, so it's not possible to do an apples to apples comparison between stock and EQed.

 

[Jimbob54]

Oratory's presets are a mix of cut and boost filters.

Setting the preamp to the same value as the highest boost of the preset (note that overlapping filters will add to each other), ensures that the effective filter response never exceeds +0dB and that digital clipping will not occur:
View attachment 449179

Peace has a similar Preamp, but there you cannot toggle just the EQ off while leaving the preamp alone, so it's not possible to do an apples to apples comparison between stock and EQed.

You can create a flat preset with just the preamp and use that though as your toggle

 

[kaffe]

Oratory's presets are a mix of cut and boost filters.

Setting the preamp to the same value as the highest boost of the preset (note that overlapping filters will add to each other), ensures that the effective filter response never exceeds +0dB and that digital clipping will not occur:
View attachment 449179

Peace has a similar Preamp, but there you cannot toggle just the EQ off while leaving the preamp alone, so it's not possible to do an apples to apples comparison between stock and EQed.

Thanks for the explanation

According to information in this thread https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nding-the-windows-audio-quality-debate.19438/ I should set preamp gain to -4 dB to "avoid upsample overs, filtering induced peaks, and the Windows CAudioLimiter".

Should these -4 dB be added to the -9.2 dB, or will I be fine as long as the preamp gain is set to -4 dB or more?

 

[kaffe]

Trying to figure out the best configuration for the DAC.
Should I set it to 24 bit / 44.1 kHz in Windows 11 or higher?

 

[staticV3]

Should I set it to 24 bit / 44.1 kHz in Windows 11 or higher?

24/44.1 is fine.

Should these -4 dB be added to the -9.2 dB, or will I be fine as long as the preamp gain is set to -4 dB or more?

The OP in that thread is advocating for -4dBFS Peak levels post-EQ, so you'd reduce the preamp until Peak gain in the Configuration Editor reads -4.0dB.

IMO, something like -1.0dB is fine as well.

 

[kaffe]

24/44.1 is fine.


The OP in that thread is advocating for -4dBFS Peak levels post-EQ, so you'd reduce the preamp until Peak gain in the Configuration Editor reads -4.0dB.

IMO, something like -1.0dB is fine as well.

Thanks again, staticV3.

So, in case the preset itself "requires" -9.3 dB I would end up with either -10.3 dB gain or -13.3 dB gain as shown in the picture? Good thing I bought an external amp

 

[staticV3]

So, in case the preset itself "requires" -9.3 dB I would end up with either -10.3 dB gain or -13.3 dB gain as shown in the picture?

Correct.

 

[kaffe]

Finally got the headphones.

With the preset and -4dBFS Peak levels post-EQ that volume is a tat on the lower side.

Any problems with setting HPA gain to "high gain" on the amp?

 

[staticV3]

Finally got the headphones.

With the preset and -4dBFS Peak levels post-EQ that volume is a tat on the lower side.

Any problems with setting HPA gain to "high gain" on the amp?

None.