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Question regarding technical parameters of LPs.

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Robin L

Robin L

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I completely understand your viewpoint and wouldn't for a moment challenge your own criteria for what is worthless to you or not.

I happen to like subjective reviewing....well, some of it....along with the measurements. Fremer is so well known, and opinionated and can be obnoxious PLUS he's ascribed to any number of woo-woo ideas as a subjectivist. So the fact he comes up most often as a subject of derision isn't surprising.



However, even someone like that can be perceptive (when there is something to perceive) and I actually like Fremer's speaker reviews. He manages to put in to words quite well the sonic characteristics I've heard from the speakers he reviews. I've owned a few of the speakers he's reviewed and it's like he took the sound I was hearing and put it very well in to words.

Just to expand on that a bit: There is a tendency to think "well, if this guy is hearing differences between power cables then I can't trust anything he claims to hear." But that would actually be something of a fallacy: it would mean he is prone to sighted bias, just as anyone is including us. Which is why blind controls are particularly necessary for dubious audio claims. But the fact anyone is susceptible to sighted bias doesn't mean they don't hear real differences that exist. I'd reliably identify my mom's voice over the phone, where you would not. In the realm of speakers sonic differences are known to exist, so someone reporting a difference between speaker A and B is plausible in a way reporting a difference between cable A and B is not. And a perceptive person with good writing skills can put those differences in to words.

I certainly get why many here don't care for subjective descriptions and just want numbers, but I do enjoy trading experiences, talking with my audio friends about "what X system or speakers sounded like" and reading subjective reviews is an extension of that. Nowhere near scientific, but not *necessarily* of no practical use at all IMO.

(Defending Fremer, even a bit on a site like this leads me to say "just show me where the tar and feathers are...I'll do it myself ;-))
Sorry, but someone who tells me that the reduction in velocity of the groove as the stylus moves to the end of an LP side " is not an issue " is a bullshit artist, as far as I'm concerned.
 

MattHooper

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Sorry, but someone who tells me that the reduction in velocity of the groove as the stylus moves to the end of an LP side is not an issue is a bullshit artist, as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, I can understand that :)
 
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Robin L

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Yes, I can understand that :)
Once I got into making needledrops for people with really old worn LPs my ear got attuned to that specific distortion. I cannot unhear that distortion no matter how good the LP and the playback gear.
 

BDWoody

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Just to expand on that a bit: There is a tendency to think "well, if this guy is hearing differences between power cables then I can't trust anything he claims to hear." But that would actually be something of a fallacy: it would mean he is prone to sighted bias, just as anyone is including us. Which is why blind controls are particularly necessary for dubious audio claims.

Maybe a variation on that is that for someone in 'the industry' who either doesn't recognise common human limitations and the need for controls before some of the ridiculous claims, or chooses to ignore it all for personal gain, I can't get beyond that fundamental level of ignorance or arrogance.

I wish all of these reviewers would verifiably demonstrate their golden ear status by passing a few blind tests...along with hearing test results.
 

watchnerd

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FWIW, here is a lab report on a turntable from a well establish manufacturer, giving an idea of what level of performance one can expect from a sanely priced turntable.

https://www.hifinews.com/content/pro-ject-classic-evo-turntable-lab-report

I'd like to see them test of the new $599 TEAC direct drive.

With an SAEC-designed knife edge arm, it looks pretty interesting for an MM-based set up.

https://www.teac-audio.eu/en/products/tn-4d-155523.html

It also to my theory that, if you're going to go MM, do it with an internal phono to keep the cable cap values low.

Here is the German review:

https://www.konsolenfan.de/hardwaretest-teac-tn-4d-vinyl-genuss-modern-verpackt/
 
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restorer-john

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anmpr1

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Who needs autochangers....

S.
This 180 g Bolero disk is 16 minutes long.

Scott Hull at Masterdisk writes in his FAQ: "Under 18 minutes, I could cut almost anything. As loud as wanted up to the groove distorting. Full bass, metal, rock—it’s all good." Hull states that compression or level reduction will begin at lengths between 18 and 22 minutes a side, depending upon the original level of the program material.

As far as changers? I know you are making a funny point, and it is valid, however one thing to consider: heavyweight LPs do not always reliably work on automatic spindle changing mechanisms. Typically the stack will hang and/or refuse to drop, because of disc thickness.

This LP is sort of like teaching your dog to walk on its hind legs. A weird curiosity, it makes no practical sense at all, but might be sort of fun to show off at a party. After a few beers.
 
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Robin L

Robin L

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Ooh I want to play with that one. My preamp channels happen to be rather well calibrated.

Here's the square wave response for the XL-88D from the CBS CTC-310 record:


View attachment 41886
So, they ARE out there - somewhere ... CTC-310s, that is.

This is a very good result for this test record.
Then again, the cart used used to be the most expensive at the time of its introduction.
 
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