Question about filters - MQA vs Hi-Res?

[Jimbob54]

Na. Nickelback is not that bad. They make good metallica cover.

Thread ban and sin bin please @admin

 

[BDWoody]

Roon happily does the first unfold which I think many say is an improvement over CD?

Many people say lots of things...especially related to what they 'hear' in audio.

Any of them do any kind of valid testing to reach this conclusion? I haven't seen it if they have.

I have an MQA DAC (M500), and the light is very nice, but that's about the only difference I can tell...

 

[JohnYang1997]

How can anyone buy the DACs and amps you’ve designed now?? Your ears are clearly broken.

shiiiiii

 

[Jimbob54]

Many people say lots of things...especially related to what they 'hear' in audio.

Any of them do any kind of valid testing to reach this conclusion? I haven't seen it if they have.

I have an MQA DAC (M500), and the light is very nice, but that's about the only difference I can tell...

I have the same. And yes, I havent even tried to A/B the mqa and regular files, nevermind anything resembling science it. I thought I'd read here and elsewhere there was some "value" in the first unfold. Maybe just opinion too.

 

[MalinYamato]

Many people say lots of things...especially related to what they 'hear' in audio.

Any of them do any kind of valid testing to reach this conclusion? I haven't seen it if they have.

I have an MQA DAC (M500), and the light is very nice, but that's about the only difference I can tell...[/QUOTEto ]
To buy or not to buy M500 instead of the sp200+m200 stack is the question I am struggling with. In other words, how much do I need that last unfold of MQA?

 

[Jimbob54]

You need it to see the blue light

 

[BDWoody]

Depends on how much you need the little light.
For any kind of improvement in sound? No.

 

[MalinYamato]

LOL.. so the question is not at all MQA but whether I should replace the blue light with a parallelogram enclosure.

 

[Jimbob54]

LOL.. so the question is not at all MQA but whether I should replace the blue light with a parallelogram enclosure.

I know the M500 measured very well (way beyond audibility) , I havent seen m200 measurements but I cant believe they will be any less than audibly transparent. Assuming it has the inputs and outputs you need, it certainly would be the more pleasing aesthetically. I have no use for the M500 HP out and I guess you dont either.

 

[MalinYamato]

I know the M500 measured very well (way beyond audibility) , I havent seen m200 measurements but I cant believe they will be any less than audibly transparent. Assuming it has the inputs and outputs you need, it certainly would be the more pleasing aesthetically. I have no use for the M500 HP out and I guess you dont either.

oh ic, the amp isn't strong or good enough, thus you use m500 as a DAC only. Which amp do you couple this with if I may ask?

 

[Jimbob54]

oh ic, the amp isn't strong or good enough, thus you use m500 as a DAC only. Which amp do you couple this with if I may ask?

I have several! It currently feeds a Schiit Mjolnir, a Geshelli Archel 2.5 (via an xlr passive switch box), an old Class A Heed Canamp (via RCA) and will soon be connected to a Geshelli Erish.

I could hook it up to a Massdrop 789 too but thats in a different rig. That it handled full MQA was my reason for buying that particular DAC as well as the extensive features and connections.

 

[MalinYamato]

I have several! It currently feeds a Schiit Mjolnir, a Geshelli Archel 2.5 (via an xlr passive switch box), an old Class A Heed Canamp (via RCA) and will soon be connected to a Geshelli Erish.

I could hook it up to a Massdrop 789 too but thats in a different rig. That it handled full MQA was my reason for buying that particular DAC as well as the extensive features and connections.

I have a small plan: Currently the only dac I have is a humble small Oppo HA-2SE but I am eager to upgrade to something more powerful and musical to better serve my newly squired Sundara. I am on Tidal Hifi. Plan A: How about getting a M500 using its amp for the time being until I may get hold of something like you have a 789 or perhaps a Schiit Hersey? Plan B: buy those two parallelograms with a discount (discount because I buy both at the same time) for USD 500. What do you think? Which DAC is better AK4497 or SE9038Pro? Thanks

 

[Jimbob54]

As far as difference in DACs goes.....this is a very live thread (hint- unless broken, there shouldnt be one)
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...as-a-sound-signature.9245/page-58#post-408839

Now, thats DACs - the oppo is obviously a HP amp too . Looks like the 3.5mm output will put out 1 volt and standard for desktop DAC boxes is 2v (via RCA ) and 4v (via XLR) . So plugging the Oppo via a 3.5mm to RCA connector would allow you to buy something like a Heresy without NEEDING to buy a separate DAC . But you will need to use more of the amps power to reach any given volume in headphones than if you have a standalone 2v DAC. But thats the cheapest solution.

Personally, I wouldnt buy the M500 for the HP amp, I think you would simply want better soon.

How much of an absolute discount does buying both SMSL 200 together get you? Because I actually think your best bet is buying the SP200 alone and running the Oppo line out into it. At some point in the future you can get any standalone DAC you like and run into either the RCA or XLR inputs. The THX amps are so clean that needing to turn the dial more to compensate for weaker input signal from Oppo shouldnt matter to sound quality.

 

[MalinYamato]

As far as difference in DACs goes.....this is a very live thread (hint- unless broken, there shouldnt be one)
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...as-a-sound-signature.9245/page-58#post-408839

Now, thats DACs - the oppo is obviously a HP amp too . Looks like the 3.5mm output will put out 1 volt and standard for desktop DAC boxes is 2v (via RCA ) and 4v (via XLR) . So plugging the Oppo via a 3.5mm to RCA connector would allow you to buy something like a Heresy without NEEDING to buy a separate DAC . But you will need to use more of the amps power to reach any given volume in headphones than if you have a standalone 2v DAC. But thats the cheapest solution.

Personally, I wouldnt buy the M500 for the HP amp, I think you would simply want better soon.

How much of an absolute discount does buying both SMSL 200 together get you? Because I actually think your best bet is buying the SP200 alone and running the Oppo line out into it. At some point in the future you can get any standalone DAC you like and run into either the RCA or XLR inputs. The THX amps are so clean that needing to turn the dial more to compensate for weaker input signal from Oppo shouldnt matter to sound quality.

Thanks alot, that seems to be an excellent incremental plan. I didn't think the DAC in my Oppo would be good enough, but you gave me hope that I may get sufficient boost in SQ by spending more money on a decent amp now with Oppo as a DAC, and wait getting a DAC later, which gives me lots of time to think about the merits of having MQA. If I buy the parallelogram combo, I get $100 discount. Ok, I will continue in the thread you provided a link to,

 

[Jimbob54]

Thanks alot, that seems to be an excellent incremental plan. I didn't think the DAC in my Oppo would be good enough, but you gave me hope that I may get sufficient boost in SQ by spending more money on a decent amp now with Oppo as a DAC, and wait getting a DAC later, which gives me lots of time to think about the merits of having MQA. If I buy the parallelogram combo, I get $100 discount. Ok, I will continue in the thread you provided a link to,

If you dont need an XLR out socket, I would also give the Geshelli Archel 2.5 a look- if you like the style its a beaut of an amp https://geshelli.com/archel2-5-pro (slightly bigger brother to the Archel 2 that blew most stuff away in Amirs review on here)

 

[majingotan]

You need it to see the blue light

Nah, Green Light is better than blue light

 

[Jimbob54]

Nah, Green Light is better than blue light

View attachment 64984[/QUOTE

Thats the funniest bit of the lights. Hardly anyone knows what they mean and sometimes they mean different things! None of the colours have anything to do with the quality/ rate / depth/ frequency range of the file. They have everything to do with the provenance/ approval process. Or, in the case of Magenta, indicates something is doing something between source file and DAC outputs other than the DAC itself.

EDIT- but you knew that and just prefer green

 

[mansr]

Or, in the case of Magenta, indicates something is doing something between source file and DAC outputs other than the DAC itself.

I can easily make that one turn on.

 

[Jimbob54]

I can easily make that one turn on.

I heard if you ever badmouth Bob Stuart, he sends psychic signals to all your MQA enabled devices to tell them to never show anything other than Magenta. If you really piss him off he makes it red, so despite your ears telling you everything is fine, your brain has nagging doubts for eternity.

 

[JustAnandaDourEyedDude]

Thank you very much for sharing and please allow me to share your frustration. I have wasted a lot of money on both equipment and media that are based on now obsolete formats such as Audio DVD as well as on snake oil cables. To purchase, collect, organize, store and backup steals too much time from me and I have therefore joined the trend to subscribe to music as so many of my acquaintances do. My assumption that most of you members here have switched over to do the same is probably wrong as I guess there will allays be enthusiasts who strive for perfection me included, yet my focus is on saving up for B&W speakers which for me is more important than trying to achieve marginal improvements in media. MQA is probable meant as a method to stream media and not as much for those who want to own content, but I have just leered by members here that Tidal also provides a way to buy MQA files, which surprises me. As a consumer of streams, the possibility of MQA dying away is not an issue for me and many others as it may be in your case as a collector of music. Are you gong to purchase and store MQA? I must admit that I know too little about MQA and that I do my best in trying to find needles in haystacks by reading articles, papers and watching Tubes. I do appreciate all the thoughts from you and all the members here.

You are welcome. Thank you for sharing your own experience of audio purchases that in hindsight turned out to be wasteful. It is definitely a good move you made in shifting your priorities to buying good speakers that will have the most impact on the sound from your home audio system. There are threads in the ASR forums that contain speaker measurements by AmirM and others, and insights from highly knowledgeable folks. The ASR site is the most valuable resource for choosing all your audio components with real (measurements-backed) audio quality for sensible amounts of money.

Like you, I have tired of spending the money, time and effort to do things the old way, and have begun to subscribe to a streaming service as well. Like you, the valuable freed-up time is now spent posting on ASR . I had previously been using an unfounded elitist disdain for lossy mp3 formats in downloads and streaming as an excuse to keep buying CDs. Though recently, I could not even reliably distinguish between CD-quality lossless and lossy mp3 versions of three of the six music samples on the 2015 NPR "How Well Can You Hear Audio Quality" online test. The year before last, I trialed Primephonic's high-res streaming service briefly, but they offered only classical music, and that was not enough for me. Soon after Amazon's Music HD announcement, I subscribed to this service. Now, I buy a CD I find attractive only if I cannot find the album on HDTracks and HighResAudio download stores at the time, though I have not yet bought even a single album as a download from those sites. Now that supposedly around 50 million tracks are available to me for streaming, my CD collection which seemed giant previously, is like a drop in an ocean. I once roughly estimated that if I could afford to retire from work and spent all of my waking time listening to music, and listened just once to each streamable track (no repeats of interesting or favorite tracks allowed!), it would take me about 500 years to get through all that music. This is assuming of course that during those 500 years, out of respect for my heroic effort, the music industry would release no new recordings.

To answer your question, no, I will not buy and store MQA files! As can be inferred from my previous two posts, I want nothing to do with MQA. You are right, MQA or not matters less to streaming music than to downloads, as there is only a small hardware investment involved perhaps. It seems you are giving much thought to MQA mainly because you are attached to Tidal already, and MQA is their only option for higher-res, and also for the reassurance of hearing the original mastering. Keep in mind that with MQA you are not streaming the master recordings themselves (which are 96/24 or 192/24), but only a version of them that will fit within the MQA format (unless the streaming MQA spec is different than the MQA-CD spec), though this should not matter in terms of the audible end result. If MQA dies off, hopefully Tidal will offer FLAC or other lossless substitutions seamlessly, so that you do not have to rebuild your playlists or painfully transfer them to another streaming service. Qobuz, Primephonic, Amazon Music HD and likely some other services offer CD quality or higher res streaming without MQA.

To my hazy recollection, MQA was initially promoted also as a format for CDs, wherein a MQA-CD would play back just the normal CD content (with the loss of least significant three bits of range and amplitude info) on regular non-MQA CD or DVD/Blu-ray players, of which hundreds of millions exist in homes already. The higher-res content would be revealed only on MQA-capable CD players, in the manner of hybrid-SACD. This is the reason for the odd nature of the encoding, with the high-res piggybacking on the CD-res at some loss of the latter, and also the reason for the bandwidth limits of MQA. It seems to me, though this might just be my poor understanding, that compared with 44.1/16 CD, MQA loses some dynamic range and amplitude resolution to gain some higher frequency resolution, based on its creator Bob Stuart's opinion of the optimum resolution. This is in contrast to what Monty Montgomery of Xiph.org said in his online article (which I can no longer locate online). Monty made a case that at most 20 bits and 44.1 kHz (i.e., an increase in amplitude resolution and not sampling high-frequency limit) would be of benefit in improving on 44.1/16 CD and delivering all audible music.

At the time, MQA was a clever ploy a la SACD (and DVD-Audio and Blu-ray Audio) to use compatibility with a large installed base of CD players, together with DRM for the CD format which always makes the music industry leaders' hearts sing. With the ongoing death of the optical disc format, this scheme is moot. MQA exists now only because of Tidal's adoption of it for a streaming format, which I surmise was done for reasons of being stingy with internet bandwidth and to appeal to confused music industry executives with the unacknowledged DRM aspect in order to sign distribution deals, and to offer an impressively named higher-res service standing out from the other streaming services.