Question about 4xx, 880 premium 600 ohm "drivability"

[Budgeter]

Hi folks, today I receive 800 premium 600 ohm and pair it with my e10k, D10 + Atom combo.

A while ago, I bought 4xx but then returned it. With D10 + Atom, I have enough volume at around 10'o clock on Atom, while D10's volume was maxed out in window/Topping driver. For e10k, it's window volume was also at max, and I can listen to 4xx with knob at around 2-3. For both cases, above those volume are basically unlistenable. Both e10k and Atom are on low gain.

The thing is, my 880 premium 600 ohm also reaches the same volume at the some position for both combo. Of course, there is no way I can volume match them since I don't have equipment to do so, so it is all based on my ear.

However, it's kinda weird that on my smartphone (Asus Zenfone 3 ZE552KL), 1/2 of the volume bar gives me enough volume on 4xx, but it has to be maxed out in order to get the same volume on 880.

880's plug is labeled 600 ohm, so I'm pretty sure the version is correct.
Can anyone explain this for me? In case anyone suppose that I messed up settings or I remember these wrong, I literally took a detailed note of my experience with 4xx so no way it is incorrect. I thought that 880 should be way "harder to drive" compared to 4xx.
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Side question, the box comes without seal (as in picture). Although, I couldn't find any hair, fingerprint, scratch etc, the pad color is like below. Is it normal? Since the box of 4xx also have no seal, only a plastic cover outside, I'm curious.

 

[Budgeter]

I've just discovered something interesting here, and this might be the case. Pay attention to the resistance written on label and the box. As this correlates with my understanding that 880 250 ohm version should be the one that have the same volume with 4xx, not 600 ohm version. Sadly, I don't have multimeter to check what's going on, but in case anyone wonder, I purchased this from avSoundz on Amazon. It seems that they are not Beyerndynamic authorized dealer in US.

 

[raistlin65]

1) How difficult a headphone is to drive is a function of impedance and sensitivity, not impedance alone.

2) Start reading through Amir's headphone amp reviews. You'll see that there is not a standard ratio between 32 and 300 ohm performance. So sure, your motherboard might have a little more difficulty with the higher impedance headphones.

3) Don't try to compare positions on volume dials between devices. Turning the volume up 50% of the dial on one device does not mean that you've used the same percentage of headphone amp power as it does with 50% on another.

 

[solderdude]

some reading material...

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/power-impedance-etc/

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pr...=1000&splw_n=10&splw_x=1000&rh_n=1&rh_x=10000

 

[Budgeter]

Thanks for your response, but I think you misunderstand something here.

1) How difficult a headphone is to drive is a function of impedance and sensitivity, not impedance alone.

I know it, and if i remember correctly correct, the calculation should show, volume on 880 *any version* 600 ohm << 250 ohm ~ 4xx at the same knob position of the same device. In other words, 880-600 ohm is "harder-to-drive" compared to 4xx.

2) Start reading through Amir's headphone amp reviews. You'll see that there is not a standard ratio between 32 and 300 ohm performance. So sure, your motherboard might have a little more difficulty with the higher impedance headphones.

Can you elaborate on this more? I don't get it. Current wise, it should scale linearly when the resistance changes. By the way, I'm feeding 880 and 4xx with D10 + Atom amp and e10k, so no motherboard is involved here.

3) Don't try to compare positions on volume dials between devices. Turning the volume up 50% of the dial on one device does not mean that you've used the same percentage of headphone amp power as it does with 50% on another.

I'm not comparing the volume between two devices, but I'm comparing volume of 2 headphones on the same devices, and there are 2 devices.
E.g: D10 + Atom: 4xx- 100dB @12 o'clock, 880-600 ohm: 90 dB @ 12 o'clock. Fiio e10k: 4xx - 100 dB @2~3, 880-600 ohm: 90dB @ 2~3

some reading material...

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/power-impedance-etc/

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pr...=1000&splw_n=10&splw_x=1000&rh_n=1&rh_x=10000

Thank you, I'm actually watching these sites right now, along with your explanation over here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...or-600-ohm-dt880s-vs-hd800s.8905/#post-296506
And from these information, 880-600 ohm should requires more voltage to reach the same average volume if I understand correctly.
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Anyway, I'm gonna return this pair for a refund, there is a chance that I got a faked one. I guess I will always check for authorized dealer before buying anything from now on.

 

[Doodski]

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Anyway, I'm gonna return this pair for a refund, there is a chance that I got a faked one. I guess I will always check for authorized dealer before buying anything from now on.

I email the manufacturer for some purchases to ensure amazon or any other dealer is a authorized dealer. Make sure the product is not a fake or gray market and therefore has no manufacturer warranty in country. They are happy to answer that question and all have been fast to reply.

 

[solderdude]

And from these information, 880-600 ohm should requires more voltage to reach the same average volume if I understand correctly.

Correct, and that's what @raistlin65 tried to explain as well.

I don't think the DT880's are fake. The actual impedance is also written on the headphones. It can easily be measured with a multimeter as well.
What could have happened is the box (stating 600Ohm) does not belong to the model in it, check serial numbers for this.
Or the wrong impedance on the box may have been ticked by accident.
Or someone blew a driver, and replaced the 600 Ohm drivers with 250 Ohm drivers which can be confirmed with a $ 10.- multimeter.

 

[Budgeter]

Correct, and that's what @raistlin65 tried to explain as well.

That's why I found it weird when this 880-600 ohms pair reaches the same volume at the same knob position compared to 4xx, which should be about the same as 880-250 ohms version.

I don't think the DT880's are fake. The actual impedance is also written on the headphones. It can easily be measured with a multimeter as well.
What could have happened is the box (stating 600Ohm) does not belong to the model in it, check serial numbers for this.
Or the wrong impedance on the box may have been ticked by accident.
Or someone blew a driver, and replaced the 600 Ohm drivers with 250 Ohm drivers which can be confirmed with a $ 10.- multimeter.

You're right, I get that too. Personally, I also don't have any other problem with this pair other than the box itself (600 ohms ver in 250 ohms box, which is covered by 600 ohms label. Even if I can check this with multimeter, I still don't want too keep it anymore. For a brand new pair, I expect it come in perfect condition, not something "suspicious" like this.

 

[Doodski]

For a brand new pair, I expect it come in perfect condition, not something "suspicious" like this.

Darn tootin it should be perfect for the price of this sorta stuff and for the amount of mark-up on headphones.

 

[raistlin65]

Can you elaborate on this more? I don't get it. Current wise, it should scale linearly when the resistance changes. By the way, I'm feeding 880 and 4xx with D10 + Atom amp and e10k, so no motherboard is involved here.

I'm not an engineer, so I don't know for sure why that happens. However, if you look at enough amplifier review measurements, you'll see that it does.

I'm not comparing the volume between two devices, but I'm comparing volume of 2 headphones on the same devices, and there are 2 devices.
E.g: D10 + Atom: 4xx- 100dB @12 o'clock, 880-600 ohm: 90 dB @ 12 o'clock. Fiio e10k: 4xx - 100 dB @2~3, 880-600 ohm: 90dB @ 2~3

I explained that just in case you didn't understand since a lot of people don't, since you provided irrelevant information of where the volume is on the Atom. You could have just said "it's the same."